Spending way too much time figure out which program to start learning first. If anyone can illuminate me that would be great. This is the general conclusion I've reached:

Poser, Iclone, and DAZ are "cookie cutters", which I can use to get up and animating right away as long as I don't mind spending a lot of money on content.

Maya, 3DS, and Blender, are full-fledged programs which will allow me to do everything from scratch, meaning I need to invest much more time and effort before I can start making movies.

Is this correct at all?

Or, can I take those same pre-made characters and use them in Maya etc.? Can I alter them to become unique, thus finding some middle ground between originality and speed?

Or am I way off and I can actually use DAZ etc. to create totally unique characters if I want to?

I get the impression all the content available for iclone, poser and daz is created OUTSIDE of those programs in other programs, is that right?

I can't speak for DS since I don't use the software, but 3D figures used in Poser are Wavefront OBJ files. These figures (mesh) were created in outside-of-Poser software: for example, V4 was made in modo, Antonia was started in Winds3D and (I think) finished in Blender and so forth. Neither Poser nor DS are modellers. However, the ability to rig the figure is a function of Poser and - I believe - DS. Rigging allows the user to easily pose and animate the figure, as well as clothe it. This is doable in a modeller, but not without a bit more work. Blender has an addon called 'Rigify' which facilitates rigging a figure but expressions are still up to the user to rig, So, for ease of use, I'd stay with Poser or DS. For flexibility, you might want to look at Blender or modo, or Max (if you have money to burn).

Ok so Poser and company are more for "plug and play" and the others are good if I want to build my own sets and characters from the ground up, basically? Would there be any reason to create characters and props in something like Blender, but do all the animation in iclone?

jacknimble posted at 3:53PM Tue, 13 October 2015 - #4233478

Ok so Poser and company are more for "plug and play" and the others are good if I want to build my own sets and characters from the ground up, basically? Would there be any reason to create characters and props in something like Blender, but do all the animation in iclone?

Yes, you can certainly do that and many do. Just realize that 3D packages are rarely designed for such a workflow. Trying to import a fully rigged, clothed, and especially, animated character from one program into another can be a crazy hassle.

You may want to check out MakeHuman, which has Poser-like character customization options. The CGCookie Flex Rig (https://cgcookie.com/resource/cg-cookie-flex-rig/) also has a lot of customization.

like RV I don't use iclone ...depends what sort of animation you want ...don't think iclone can do more then cartoony/game stuff.......long time since I had there demo lol

building stuff in blender is fun and theres lots of ways to get what you want for little cost (unlike the other programs in same sentence) look at make human (its freeware) can export to blender (fingers crossed ) with a basic rig better to build your own rig .......faces can be shapekeys or rigging .......your choice

poser/DS dolls have a price ...............if your on a budget forget them depending on how good your skills are .........might take a yr to 18 months to make your own doll from scratch am sure Da Vinci would make me eat those words ;-) have fun come back if your stuck

You can export the DAZ model i.e., Victoria/Genesis into Blender to modify and then export as obj or fbx file and import into Mixamo for rigging.

Yeah I"m not talking about importing a bunch of rigging and all that, just creating unique models and then bringing them in bare bones and adding everything afterwards. And I realize it may take months to build a character 100% from scratch.

So, this is probably what I want to do right now. Take a model that I buy, and alter it in a way that can't be done inside poser/iclone/daz. Just for an example, I want to make a "dragon man", a human with wings and horns and things. So I can do that in basically any modeling program, right? Am I right in thinking this will provide a kind of "middle ground" as far as getting started doing my own modeling? Something I can get a result faster than starting with nothing?

make sure you read the T&C's .......just buying a "doll" don't give you rights to do as you like with it (wouldn't want you to get in trouble)

These 2 links on Youtube may help you better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FjFXTD1XD0&list=WL&index=200 http://youtu.be/ekDTeRw_G3o Let me know if this helps.

I haven't played with iclone. The short answer is that Daz/Poser are programs for posing stills from pre-made models. Maya, 3DS, Blender and several others, are basically a group of programs all squeezed into one, meant for doing from beginning to end animation and movie/tv fx work.

It's more complicated, because Daz and Poser added animation stuff quite a while ago. They aren't as full featured as the others, but I've seen some really good work done with them. There are some basic modeling tools, but they are extremely basic and in most cases not of much use. When you get into the animation/fx softwares there are still things they don't do or don't do well. You will almost for sure want a 2D software like Photoshop or Gimp. A large number of people use external modeling programs. There are also external motion/animation programs that get used. Then you get into render engines and people are all over the place about what internal or external one to use.

In short, I have used 3DS, Max, and Lightwave to do animations, where I used no other program and no work done by other people. I've played with Blender enough that I think I could also do that in Blender. You realistically need stuff done by others to use Daz/Poser. But realistically it's unlikely you would use just one program and nothing from any one else, even if you are using Maya, 3DS, or Blender. ZBrush is used a lot for modeling and texturing, so are several others, including a lot of cad programs. Lip sync tends to be done a lot with external programs. Motion capture is a huge thing and is most often done by an external program. People use what ever seems to work well for them. You don't have to lock your self into one niche with one piece of software.

Daz and Blender are free, so they are a good place to take a first look. If your main interest is animation, then there are tons of free models to play with and you can exchange those between programs (with a bit of work). At some point you will want to adjust some models. You can only do that to a limited degree with Daz and Poser. The limit is a lot more then you would first guess, but it is limited to the morphs available and what you can do with some deforming tools.

You could also always use the Make Human models, but I do believe you'll still need to rig them.

MH rigs work in blender [will need rigging for poser/ds, try autogroup{poser} be prepared to fall off chair laughing] but is better rigs MORE WORK, just saying MH to blender ....nightly builds give a 95% or better chance of it working [both update so much it can be annoying to get them to sync just keep trying]

maybe give us more clues as to what you want to do ?? special tools do special things rather well.........universal tools do EVERYTHING if you can stand on one hand while .......... lol ;-) [honest I lurve blender ........not just cos its free..........but if you find something it cant do you can write a python script to twist its arm ]

I used DazStudio when it was in Beta and version 1. I bought several fantastic 'skins' through Renderosity for the human models I bought from Daz3D. I bought some backgrounds from Daz3d, but also built a lot myself using Wings3D and importing them into Daz Studio. I also used Daz3D's Bryce software which produces lovely landscapes and has a limited form of model building but which also allows import of models from Studio or Wings (etc). The problem was that Bryce does beautiful landscapes and shiny metal and glass, but uses a different system of rendering to the system in Studio so the same models in each looked different and so the two sets of video didn't edit together well. (One produces shiny 'ray traced' images and the other dull, but realistic shader renders)

I now use Blender which is hell to learn, has incredible power hidden away in obscure places, drives me nuts and delights me, but I avoid trying to animate living things. It is just too damn difficult.

Studio: You can make use of free or very low priced content. Studio has built into it and hidden away the very complicated part of making human or animals bend in the right places and in a realistic manner. This is horribly difficult to do well and very easy to do in Studio. Each model comes with a set of control sliders that move various parts. You can pose them, and animate those poses. It isn't easy to make it look real, but inside Studio it is easier than in Blender.

Studio is given free, usually with some content to get you started. Daz3d sell very good human models and you can get transformation packs which allow you to change their shape quite dramatically. Renderosity artists sell faces and clothes for them which I preferred to the Daz3d versions. There are some terrific artists on renderosity, (or there were back in 2006 when I bought their work) You don't have to spend much to try out Studio. With a few models and some modelling software to build the props (Walls, tables, cars) you can create scenes for still images or animated films. BUT at some point, if you are ambitious, you will feel the limitations.

Blender: It is hell to learn. If you think you are going to build realistic looking animal or human models you are more ambitious than I. It is a very skilled process. Animating them is hell too. It is laborious and I haven't figured out how to do it yet.

Building models of things is much easier. Blender has good modelling tools.

Animating in Blender has far more power and versatility than animating in Studio.

Coloring and given objects textures or applying painted textures is very powerful.

Creating flowing objects (sand storms, water, large numbers of things moving around)

Putting video into an animation (a TV screen inside a room with video running) Photos on walls or street signs.

Using live video inside an animation

Editing your video

Blender has huge power, but at the expense of being hard to learn, having things hidden all over the place.

If you want to see what I did with Studio when it was still in Beta see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhH3sUzs4HM only the close ups of the faces were done in Studio, the rest is in Bryce with the flying car built in Bryce and the other objects and interiors built in Wings3D

Compare to Blender animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFeAne1jKR0 Everything built & rendered in Blender except for the small man who comes from Daz3d left over form that earlier film