And to draw some kind of conclusions from the discussion here.

I think it's been made clear through this discourse that the answer to the OP's question does "Poser 11 improve DAZ product handling?" Is an emphatic No and the reason is clearly that Poser or SM has no interest in building their product to facilitate a 3rd party Content Market whether from Daz3D or from independent creators. And I wouldn't expect this position to change in the foreseeable future. Which may mean if you value 3rd party content, or in turn 3rd party markets, Poser may not be the best choice for you as an individual consumer. If you want an enclosed platform that gives you powerful tools to do a wealth of cool things with it's included product content or merchant resources, then it may be something you would enjoy and I'm sure it will aid you in creating some wonderful art or even tinkering out a Genestein if that's what you enjoy. ;)

As far as the rest of my commentary on the subject feel free to listen or discard at your leisure. But sincerely it wasn't made from a destructive or malicious viewpoint just my honest opinions based on the facts I have available to me and my own past experiences.

Sad, all I'm seeing is bashing. This thread should be about creative solutions. Have you purchased Poser 11? Are you trying to assist people in ways to get Genesis into the new version of Poser? That's what this thread SHOULD be about.

I am surprised that certain people who are vendors over at DAZ do not really realize that some of us out here use both programs (I wanted to play with Iray for a while because Reality was not satisfying for me). But because of the behavior I have seen in these forums from those certain vendors, I have a short list of vendors I would not purchase content from.

Latexluv posted at 7:24PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239462

Sad, all I'm seeing is bashing. This thread should be about creative solutions. Have you purchased Poser 11? Are you trying to assist people in ways to get Genesis into the new version of Poser? That's what this thread SHOULD be about.

I am surprised that certain people who are vendors over at DAZ do not really realize that some of us out here use both programs (I wanted to play with Iray for a while because Reality was not satisfying for me). But because of the behavior I have seen in these forums from those certain vendors, I have a short list of vendors I would not purchase content from.

Fair enough, great on topic input may I add. Did you mention bashing? Was that second part of your comment some kind of threat?

I'm sorry but it isn't possible to get a fully functioning version of Genesis 3 working in the current version of Poser 11. There isn't anything to discuss or advise on the matter it just isn't possible.

Anyways, welcome to the discussion. :)

I have a feeling that someone will figure out how to get G3F into Poser 11. Someone already got Michael 7 HD into Poser 11 with clothing. Picture is in the gallery over at RuntimeDNA (not sure I can put the link to the image here). This is my opinion only, but I'm not enammored with G3F. I've done 4 Iray renders with her and I'm just not thrilled with her. I have yet to install G3M but I downloaded the Essensials package a couple of nights ago. But I have a feeling someone will figure it out (just like I believe someone figured out how to get G2F skins on G3F over in the DAZ forums). When they do, I'll bookmark the thread in my reference folders.

As for the second part of my post, I don't understand why you think I was making some sort of threat. It's up to me how to spend my very limited budget. I've been a vendor off and on, starting back when Rendo first had an online store, so I wouldn't do or say things in a forum that might turn off prospective customers.

Latexluv posted at 8:47PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239466

I have a feeling that someone will figure out how to get G3F into Poser 11. Someone already got Michael 7 HD into Poser 11 with clothing. Picture is in the gallery over at RuntimeDNA (not sure I can put the link to the image here). This is my opinion only, but I'm not enammored with G3F. I've done 4 Iray renders with her and I'm just not thrilled with her. I have yet to install G3M but I downloaded the Essensials package a couple of nights ago. But I have a feeling someone will figure it out (just like I believe someone figured out how to get G2F skins on G3F over in the DAZ forums). When they do, I'll bookmark the thread in my reference folders.

As for the second part of my post, I don't understand why you think I was making some sort of threat. It's up to me how to spend my very limited budget. I've been a vendor off and on, starting back when Rendo first had an online store, so I wouldn't do or say things in a forum that might turn off prospective customers.

Unfortunately while Midnight Stories/Clubber 400 has had some success at moving a Genestein character to a Poser environment it is by no means "Michael 7" or in fact even Genesis 3 with full support and functionality in a Poser environment. Nor for that matter has Genesis 3 female been ported to poser with complete functionality. For a start the rigging that drives Genesis 3 characters is not supported in Poser so it needs to be hacked in a manner of speaking. And if you read his post he actually said clothing wasn't working correctly(Tricky, I believe is what he said). It's by no means a supportable pipeline for vendors and more a project for the curious and by no means an easy feat even in its incomplete state.

The OP asked had the pipeline been improved in Poser 11, maybe drop Clubber 400 a message if you would and ask how easy it is to get Genesis 3 fully working in Poser 11. Here is the 12:30 minute on moving G3F to Poser which is in fact a Genestein character that shares some attributes like the mesh but not the rigging and is not a complete port etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNHx4DqAFeA

But optimism is a fine virtue and I can't fault you for that, who knows maybe one day it will be a reality. But not today unfortunately.

As far as the second part of your thread, I think it's pretty plain what you meant.,,

Razor42 posted at 5:36AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239457

It's not about catering to a small minority, it's pretty clear that DS is or is becoming the market leader.

It might be the market leader in a market SM doesn't bother to compete in.

Third party content sales are important to you. It's important to DAZ. It's not important to SM.

I think the issue here is that SM and DAZ are not really in the same market at all. And what is being seen by many as stubbornness or idiocy or vindictiveness is just business. It might be inconvenient for users like you or me, but that doesn't mean either company is not doing what's smart for them.

randym77 posted at 10:59PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239474

Razor42 posted at 5:36AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239457

It's not about catering to a small minority, it's pretty clear that DS is or is becoming the market leader.

It might be the market leader in a market SM doesn't bother to compete in.

Third party content sales are important to you. It's important to DAZ. It's not important to SM.

I think the issue here is that SM and DAZ are not really in the same market at all. And what is being seen by many as stubbornness or idiocy or vindictiveness is just business. It might be inconvenient for users like you or me, but that doesn't mean either company is not doing what's smart for them.

So you're suggesting that Poser could be doing fine because it may be capitalising to a hidden market of unknown size that there is no real way of knowing actually exists beyond Jimmy Kimmel and RWBY, right? Guess I will need to take your word for it.

Razor42 posted at 7:22AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239478

randym77 posted at 10:59PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239474

Razor42 posted at 5:36AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239457

It's not about catering to a small minority, it's pretty clear that DS is or is becoming the market leader.

It might be the market leader in a market SM doesn't bother to compete in.

Third party content sales are important to you. It's important to DAZ. It's not important to SM.

I think the issue here is that SM and DAZ are not really in the same market at all. And what is being seen by many as stubbornness or idiocy or vindictiveness is just business. It might be inconvenient for users like you or me, but that doesn't mean either company is not doing what's smart for them.

So you're suggesting that Poser could be doing fine because it may be capitalising to a hidden market of unknown size that there is no real way of knowing actually exists beyond Jimmy Kimmel and RWBY, right? Guess I will need to take your word for it.

Just like we have to take your word for the fact that your products are successful. After all, a DAZ vendor who has enough time to spend all night in a POSER forum discussing what POSER is doing must have lots of time on his hands, so no product in development and no need for customer support and marketing.

To be honest I'm not even entirely convinced they are different markets. Daz3D's market is hobbyist to professional 3d figure, 3D prop and animation consumers. Including Hollywood production, Book covers, Comic illustration, Freelance Art & Design, Character Design and Independant Film.

How would you describe this other market?

CrystalGames posted at 11:30PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239480

Razor42 posted at 7:22AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239478

randym77 posted at 10:59PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239474

Razor42 posted at 5:36AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239457

It's not about catering to a small minority, it's pretty clear that DS is or is becoming the market leader.

It might be the market leader in a market SM doesn't bother to compete in.

Third party content sales are important to you. It's important to DAZ. It's not important to SM.

I think the issue here is that SM and DAZ are not really in the same market at all. And what is being seen by many as stubbornness or idiocy or vindictiveness is just business. It might be inconvenient for users like you or me, but that doesn't mean either company is not doing what's smart for them.

So you're suggesting that Poser could be doing fine because it may be capitalising to a hidden market of unknown size that there is no real way of knowing actually exists beyond Jimmy Kimmel and RWBY, right? Guess I will need to take your word for it.

Just like we have to take your word for the fact that your products are successful. After all, a DAZ vendor who has enough time to spend all night in a POSER forum discussing what POSER is doing must have lots of time on his hands, so no product in development and no need for customer support and marketing.

Sssh Crystal, the grownups are talking. ;) Feel free to join in anytime you feel you have something meaningful to add.

Razor42 posted at 7:50AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239482

CrystalGames posted at 11:30PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239480

Razor42 posted at 7:22AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239478

randym77 posted at 10:59PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239474

Razor42 posted at 5:36AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239457

It's not about catering to a small minority, it's pretty clear that DS is or is becoming the market leader.

It might be the market leader in a market SM doesn't bother to compete in.

Third party content sales are important to you. It's important to DAZ. It's not important to SM.

I think the issue here is that SM and DAZ are not really in the same market at all. And what is being seen by many as stubbornness or idiocy or vindictiveness is just business. It might be inconvenient for users like you or me, but that doesn't mean either company is not doing what's smart for them.

So you're suggesting that Poser could be doing fine because it may be capitalising to a hidden market of unknown size that there is no real way of knowing actually exists beyond Jimmy Kimmel and RWBY, right? Guess I will need to take your word for it.

Just like we have to take your word for the fact that your products are successful. After all, a DAZ vendor who has enough time to spend all night in a POSER forum discussing what POSER is doing must have lots of time on his hands, so no product in development and no need for customer support and marketing.

Sssh Crystal, the grownups are talking. ;) Feel free to join in anytime you feel you have something meaningful to add.

Grownup? You? Hahahahahahahahaha!

Meaningful? From the likes of someone who has spent all night berating the competition because his products can't stand on their own merit?

SIgh, really?

I knew you would like that one ;)

Is this the point we beat our chests and throw faeces at each other? Or we're not quite there yet?

Razor42 posted at 8:15AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239487

SIgh, really?

I knew you would like that one ;)

Is this the point we beat our chests and throw faeces at each other? Or we're not quite there yet?

Marketing 101......if you have to berate your competition to sell your product, you are admitting your product is INFERIOR to the competition.

It's simply a business decision on both companies' parts. Nothing to get too bent about....

Actually, Crystal you win. Consider me out witted ;) Gratz on that! :D

_ Marketing 101......if you have to berate your competition to sell your product, you are admitting your product is INFERIOR to the competition._

Out of lurk mode. What a load of nonsense lol. In what world does that hold any truth? If I have a pair of new shoes and I berate your old shoes which is full of holes and falling apart, you are telling me my new shoes are inferior just because I berated your old shoes? Please......You can berate or compliment something but that has no bearing on actual fact. Fact is Daz has the superior figures, the most supported figures, doesn't matter if we berate insult or compliment that. It isn't going to change the statistical fact. Back to lurk mode....

Razor42 posted at 7:35AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239478

So you're suggesting that Poser could be doing fine because it may be capitalising to a hidden market of unknown size that there is no real way of knowing actually exists beyond Jimmy Kimmel and RWBY, right? Guess I will need to take your word for it.

I think you can see what's important to them by where they've put their resources. Back in the e-Frontier days there seemed to be some interest in the DAZ/Rosity customer base. There was that fantasy package for Jessie, and they created Content Paradise. But subsequent owners haven't seemed very interested that kind of add-on content. They are continuing to develop Poser, but Content Paradise, not so much.

Anyway, whether Poser is doing fine isn't really the point. Expectations are premeditated resentments. People who expect SM to go out of their way to incorporate DAZ products are bound to be disappointed, as are those who expect DAZ to make their figures compatible with Poser. They have their business plans, and they are following them. It's been years now. This is not going to change. And the fact that they aren't doing what we would prefer they do doesn't mean they're stupid, or have to change.

To be honest I'm not even entirely convinced they are different markets. Daz3D's market is hobbyist to professional 3d figure, 3D prop and animation consumers. Including Hollywood production, Book covers, Comic illustration, Freelance Art & Design, Character Design and Independant Film.

How would you describe this other market?

Most basically...it's software vs. content.

And here's how Wikipedia describes Poser's usage:

Poser is typically used to create original images featuring human figures. Artists use Poser for human renderings of medical and industrial design illustrations, editorial illustrations, information graphics, graphic novel illustrations, comics, and adult oriented pin-ups.

Poser contains basic animation capability and is regularly employed by broadcast professionals including animation staff at Fox Bones, Colbert Report and Jimmy Kimmel Live!, as well as in industry applications, such as the animated instructions for checkout automated machines in Albertson city`s, Save-On stores and Wal-Mart, and at least one full-length Star Trek fan-film, Star Trek: Aurora. Poser characters and animations were used for early computer games from 'buddies' game creators ("Desert Rifle" games and "Cake shop" from Qi and ELEFUN(TM) game developers).

Standard Poser characters have been extensively used by European and US based documentary production teams to graphically render the human body or virtual actors in digital scenes. Humanoids printed in several science and technology magazines around the US are often Poser rendered and postworked models.

Some overlap, but I think it's clear Poser users are more "corporate."

Sssh Crystal, the grownups are talking. ;) Feel free to join in anytime you feel you have something meaningful to add.

Is this really necessary?

randym77 posted at 1:18AM Fri, 20 November 2015 - #4239504

Razor42 posted at 7:35AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239478

So you're suggesting that Poser could be doing fine because it may be capitalising to a hidden market of unknown size that there is no real way of knowing actually exists beyond Jimmy Kimmel and RWBY, right? Guess I will need to take your word for it.

I think you can see what's important to them by where they've put their resources. Back in the e-Frontier days there seemed to be some interest in the DAZ/Rosity customer base. There was that fantasy package for Jessie, and they created Content Paradise. But subsequent owners haven't seemed very interested that kind of add-on content. They are continuing to develop Poser, but Content Paradise, not so much.

....

Anyway, whether Poser is doing fine isn't really the point. Expectations are premeditated resentments. People who expect SM to go out of their way to incorporate DAZ products are bound to be disappointed, as are those who expect DAZ to make their figures compatible with Poser. They have their business plans, and they are following them. It's been years now. This is not going to change. And the fact that they aren't doing what we would prefer they do doesn't mean they're stupid, or have to change.

That's very true. and pretty much on the same note as the post I made about 5 hrs ago 2896336

To be honest I'm not even entirely convinced they are different markets. Daz3D's market is hobbyist to professional 3d figure, 3D prop and animation consumers. Including Hollywood production, Book covers, Comic illustration, Freelance Art & Design, Character Design and Independant Film.

How would you describe this other market?

Most basically...it's software vs. content.

Well there is Daz Studio and a few other software apps at Daz3D, which are also considered as software. So Software and Content VS Software right?

And here's how Wikipedia describes Poser's usage:

Poser is typically used to create original images featuring human figures. Artists use Poser for human renderings of medical and industrial design illustrations, editorial illustrations, information graphics, graphic novel illustrations, comics, and adult oriented pin-ups.

Poser contains basic animation capability and is regularly employed by broadcast professionals including animation staff at Fox Bones, Colbert Report and Jimmy Kimmel Live!, as well as in industry applications, such as the animated instructions for checkout automated machines in Albertson city`s, Save-On stores and Wal-Mart, and at least one full-length Star Trek fan-film, Star Trek: Aurora. Poser characters and animations were used for early computer games from 'buddies' game creators ("Desert Rifle" games and "Cake shop" from Qi and ELEFUN(TM) game developers).

Standard Poser characters have been extensively used by European and US based documentary production teams to graphically render the human body or virtual actors in digital scenes. Humanoids printed in several science and technology magazines around the US are often Poser rendered and postworked models.

Some overlap, but I think it's clear Poser users are more "corporate."

I don't honestly think there is enough variance in that to be considered a separate market, all of those names and descriptions fit well into the genres covered by DS and Daz3d. But I guess it's open to a fair degree of interpretation. And please, citing Wikipedia... JK! Wikipedia is fine, but the references for the article could be a wee bit biased as it reads like a press release. And in fact most of it's sources directly relate to SM.

Sssh Crystal, the grownups are talking. ;) Feel free to join in anytime you feel you have something meaningful to add.

Is this really necessary?

Entirely, If you want to see real change here. People complain that this isn't a friendly place to be anymore yet rant at anyone they don't agree with attempting to derail legitimate conversation. Constant aggressive posturing and trollish toned posts should expect to receive similar responses from me in future. Or is the aggressive tribal characteristic something you enjoy in these forums? You didn't seem to raise issue to members here pointing fingers and saying "Outsiders! Get out! This is our Forum!" But you find issue with me telling someone who was repetitively badgering me and not adding a word of constructive input, to grow up?

Boni posted at 7:53AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239362

I am not here to create a flame war by any means ... but it was never SM's choice to not support Genesis. It was DAZ's who owns Genesis technology and DSON. Just to be clear here.

Just to be really clear here: DSON is an open format. An importer can be built just like for OBJ, LWO, FBX or Collada. It is entirely SM's choice to build or not build an importer.

icprncss2 posted at 8:00AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239426

There was also the decision not to go with DAZ Triax WM which was proprietary.

Nope. Not true.

I'll add to what Bhoins said. DSON is an open format, not locked to Daz, or where they charge you a licensing fee to incorporate it. Anybody can incorporate it if they have the resources and time to do so and IF they wanted to.

Are you all ADULTS? Because you are acting like a bunch of kindergartners fighting over toys. Gen3 working in Poser is a DEAD HORSE. It comes up so often (particularly in the Poser forum) that it's ridiculous. Enough is enough. Poser will not support DAZ's Gen3- PERIOD.

Be considerate to each other & don't start flame wars or software bashing. If this gets any more out of hand, there will be consequences.

bhoins posted at 4:32PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239509

Just to be really clear here: DSON is an open format. An importer can be built just like for OBJ, LWO, FBX or Collada. It is entirely SM's choice to build or not build an importer.

It would be so if DSON documentation prominently showed some type of, e.g., Creative Commons Licensing like CC0. Lack of explicit licensing information is not public domain, it is a legal trap waiting for somebody to jump in. But JSON is free... you DAZ-hater! yes, JSON is free but DSON is an application of JSON and therefore potentially copyrightable by itself.

The fix, provided that DAZ management wants DSON to be adopted by other application (I decline any responsibility for damages caused keyboard/mouse/monitor by liquid emissions from readers mouths) is DAZ updating appropriately the documentation web pages. If DAZ does not do so, it is because they deliberately want to keep DSON licensing in a legal limbo, action indicating anything but openess.

Razor42 posted at 9:37AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239508

Well there is Daz Studio and a few other software apps at Daz3D, which are also considered as software. So Software and Content VS Software right?

Not really. DS is free. DAZ is not making money from selling software. They are giving away the software and selling content.

It really is an entirely different marketing plan, and I suspect a mostly different customer base. SM doesn't really need to sell a lot of content, because their core customers don't need it. Here at Rosity there's endless demand for chain mail bikinis and the like, but if you're doing corporate videos or medical illustrations, you don't need a bunch of different characters and clothes.

Entirely, If you want to see real change here. People complain that this isn't a friendly place to be anymore yet rant at anyone they don't agree with attempting to derail legitimate conversation. Constant aggressive posturing and trollish toned posts should expect to receive similar responses from me in future.

It's just that my experience has been that responding to "constant aggressive posturing and trollish toned posts" with more of the same does not reduce said posts, it increases them. You don't really expect that kind of response to make this a friendlier forum, do you?

_ SM doesn't really need to sell a lot of content, because their core customers don't need it._

So, who is the core customer? Do you even know? You are making assumptions here as to who needs and wants content and who doesn't.

@ randym77

Maybe you noticed my first reponse to the same type of post made by the same poster earlier in the thread? And how i refused to be led into an outright personal slinging match which seemed was the sole intention of the poster, after i lost my patience with them and replied back in kind. Did i not just walk away, rather than escalate the confrontation further? I'm no angel but i do try and some do get away with an awful lot in the way of derailing any kind of meaningful conversation in the poser forums. If enough trouble is caused the thread will be locked to diffuse the situation, some people play on this.

I may not 100% agree with all of your posts or point of views. As i'm sure you don't with mine also. It doesnt mean we haven't spoken to each other without a level of respect through this entire conversation. That basic level of respect is part of the key to a healthy forum community and unfortunately it has been lallowed to erode to a sorry state in many situations here. Where some posters here frankly show very little even base level respect or courtesy to anyone and if they disagree with the poster it becomes all out personal attack time. I'm not saying to demand respect i'm saying treat others how you would like to be treated. Thankfully things do seem to have seen some slight improvement in some areas of the forum lately. Hopefully its a positive sign for the entire forum to get back to being a community instead of several warring tribes gnashing teeth.

chaecuna posted at 10:12AM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239518

bhoins posted at 4:32PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239509

Just to be really clear here: DSON is an open format. An importer can be built just like for OBJ, LWO, FBX or Collada. It is entirely SM's choice to build or not build an importer.

It would be so if DSON documentation prominently showed some type of, e.g., Creative Commons Licensing like CC0. Lack of explicit licensing information is not public domain, it is a legal trap waiting for somebody to jump in.

Wavefront Object, FBX and LWO show no such licensing. The difference with using one of those licenses is that anyone can extend or change the format. See the various, incompatible, versions of Collada for what a trap that is.

missed edit time

*It doesnt mean we have spoken to each other without a level of respect through this entire conversation.

Sorry double negative threw me :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIWeIChes5k

bhoins posted at 7:54PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239548

Wavefront Object, FBX and LWO show no such licensing. The difference with using one of those licenses is that anyone can extend or change the format. See the various, incompatible, versions of Collada for what a trap that is.

Very reviling attempt at skipping the issue. It is the same trick the owners of the GIF specification tried: sit down, do nothing, entice the imbeciles into adopting the format without reading the small print and then jump on them requiring royalties. Everybody got mad, dropped GIFs and switched to other formats. PNG was born on the aftermath of this trap, with the purpose to explain in clear terms to the owners of GIF patents in which bodily orifice of theirs they could insert (deeply) their requests for royalties.

A lot of poser users modify their figures and content to suit their needs. Others use nude, morphed figures to paint over in photoshop. Most of the features that have been added to Poser over the last couple of versions have been geared towards the needs of content artists more than the end users. Making and modifying clothing in Poser has become easier with each new version. There are volumes of content that is already available for pre-genesis figures and various ways to export content from DS and modify it on your own to get it working in Poser. It's not rocket science. It doesn't take any special skills or degrees or secret recipes. DS still exports obj files, and those objs can be brought into Poser and used in the fitting room for which ever figure a user wants that piece of clothing to fit. For those that have zbrush, a piece of clothing can be sent directly from DS to zbrush, fit to a native Poser figure in zbrush, and then sent from zbrush into Poser to be rigged in the fitting room. That's just one example of how Poser artists can take advantage of genesis content without having native genesis support in Poser. And if you really need Genesis in Poser then there are a number of threads that show how to make Genesis become a native Poser figure with some elbow grease and determination.

So while the 3rd party content market for Poser may seem like it's fading out, there is no way for anyone to know how much of the new genesis content is still being used in Poser by the Poser DIY'ers - and for pretty much all of it's existence, Poser has been known for it's DIY crowd. A number of its features that are standard in Poser today came from that crowd tinkering and finding new ways of doing things. Even if Poser did adapt genesis natively, how much of the rest of Poser would they have to change? Materials would still be different because they now use two different rendering engines. Content vendors would still choose one platform to support over the other, just as they are doing now and have largely dropped DSON support, as it's been stated by several that it wasn't significant enough affect on their sales to continue including in their products. And from a logical standpoint, If the lack of native genesis support was directly affecting Poser's profitability to any significant degree, SM would have done something about it by now - either by adopting Genesis native support, or by investing in the development of a substantially similar figure. You can't site the current value of their stock as any indication of how well Poser is doing on the worldwide market since - for one, Poser is just one of several titles that SM owns, and 2, the competition you're comparing them to doesn't even have a stock value since it's a privately held company and doesn't release it's profit data to the public.

This debate is soo tiresome! It does not matter why Accept the reality and choose tool To achieve your creative objectives ....if indeed you have any

Ps @ Ambient shade, that male poser rig you have in the works looks excellent...stay with it

Razor42 posted at 8:47PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239482 [snip]

Sssh Crystal, the grownups are talking. ;) Feel free to join in anytime you feel you have something meaningful to add.

Is that all you can resort to now, personally insulting a member as "Not Adult"?

Poor performance "Razor42", very poor indeed. Tsk...

At least it sheds a certain light at you.

Oh b.t.w., don't bother to insult me too - I won't read it because after this post you go right back to my ignore list where you are a permanent member.

I only "unignore" you occasionally, when I want to have a good laugh!

Thanks Wolf I plan to as time permits. He has a sister too, I just haven't posted shots of her yet. She needs some draws' to make it family friendly first, lol.

chaecuna posted at 1:15PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239567

bhoins posted at 7:54PM Thu, 19 November 2015 - #4239548

Wavefront Object, FBX and LWO show no such licensing. The difference with using one of those licenses is that anyone can extend or change the format. See the various, incompatible, versions of Collada for what a trap that is.

Very reviling attempt at skipping the issue. It is the same trick the owners of the GIF specification tried: sit down, do nothing, entice the imbeciles into adopting the format without reading the small print and then jump on them requiring royalties. Everybody got mad, dropped GIFs and switched to other formats. PNG was born on the aftermath of this trap, with the purpose to explain in clear terms to the owners of GIF patents in which bodily orifice of theirs they could insert (deeply) their requests for royalties.

And you provide the perfect example of why that kind of nonsense doesn't fly. Thank you.