I never said it had to be G3...in fact, while I certainly wouldn't mind G3 working Poser, I'd prefer Poser have their own set of awesome figures. That would give users who use both programs even MORE choices. LOL.

It used to be said back in the early days of personal computers that the reason Apple didn't have a larger market share today is because Steve Jobs thought it was all about the hardware and Bill Gates understood it was all about the software. Judging by the popularity of non-PC Apple products today, they were BOTH right. It doesn't matter how great a piece of software like Poser is if there's nothing good to put IN the software. And much as it pains me to say it, Daz does a much better job at the stuff to put IN the software (if we compare DS and Poser to computer hardware). For a company that charges 250 to 500 dollars a pop for their full versions, it just seems we should be getting more bang for our buck. And since the developers of Poser don't seem to be quite pulling it off, and since the community wants to keep the software alive, maybe rather than bickering about who's penis is larger all the time, we should instead be brainstorming what we can do about the situation. The community used to pull together before with difficult problems. It just seems the last 6 years or so we've all forgotten how to do that.

Are there Kickstarter possibilities? A consortium of the community's best modelers, texture artists and riggers? Let's face it - a LOT of us have a vested interest in Poser. Perhaps we should work together toward something than to constantly work against each other. We always expect other people to fix it while we all sit on our collective asses and just bitch about it not happening (and SM hasn't exactly done anything to help in that area). Just an idea ;). I'd certainly be willing to throw money at people to make awesome addons to Poser like Snarly's scripts, Virtual World Dynamics fantastic development with conforming hair and clothing or even a third party developer for a dynamic hair or clothing plugin that's better than what's already IN Poser. I'd certainly throw some money at some great figures that make the most of Poser's abilities.

Laurie

Here, I'll start off with an idea or three:

1. Get rid of the old Poser interface. It was fine in its day, but today just looks VERY dated and kludgy.

2. Do something dangerous like getting rid of backward compatibilty so that it doesn't sacrifice moving forward. Daz made this bold move and it worked out for them. Sure there was a lot of grumbling at first, but people came to like the advances better than the old figures. Truth is, Poser HAS to keep up with the Joneses or it will die, period. No risk, no reward. It can't possibly be worse than what they're already (not) doing.

3. REVAMP THE MATERIAL ROOM and give it proper documentation. Poser is primarily a hobbyist program. I wish the developers kept that in mind. Do like the makers of Vue and manage to create a very versitile basic material editor while keeping the harder stuff in the background, yet still accessible for those that know what they're doing.

Poser has had a better plugin scheme for what? two or three versions now? And yet few have really taken advantage of it. Maybe we should encourage that ;). If we can't get something from SM that we want maybe we can get it another way, yeah? I'm certain there's people in the community with all KINDS of ideas and skills that are so put off by the infighting that they're too disgusted to contribute. I can understand the feeling, believe me.

Laurie

I agree. Except for the UI, I happen to like it a lot :3

LOL I kinda like it too, but to be honest, I could be confusing "like" with "I'm confortable cause I've been looking at it for two decades" ;). It's terribly disorganized. We still can't adjust multiple material zones at once that all use the same shader (Vue had that back in version 2 when I started using it - long before I ever heard of Poser). There are parts of the interface that just don't work with todays users. I need to make a list. LOL

Laurie

I don't mind a new UI if they give you options to keep the old one (unless it keeps back innovation). Options are always good, regardless. Personally, I find Posers UI to be easy to reorganize to my liking, granted I'm not very well versed in the material room so I can't comment on that..

Male_M3dia posted at 12:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250131

One again, SM sidestepped the issue bringing in a false argument about the plugin when the full DSON spec is posted for them online to import like reading any other file format. Let not trot this false argument out because there's a major different between the "DSON Importer for Poser" and the "DSON specification". It's already been noted that DAZ has taken the importer as far as it can go because of the performance issues with python, that's why DAZ mentioned reading the specification natively, not trying to use some tool to hack the importer which would be a DCMA violation.

It's sort of moot, because DAZ is going to DRM based product distribution in Studio 4.9. Some sort of a plugin from DAZ would be needed to use any of their new content anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding something....

@DreaminGirl Maybe they should do like that "other" software does and offer multiple UI setups so that ppl can pick and choose with the option to customize.

The trick is not to completely match what DS has, but to match what DS has and do it one BETTER. Isn't that the nature of competition? I thought it was...lol. Along with "give the people what they want". We know what we want so why don't we step up to the plate and make it?

It might go a long way if SM would give away the plugin API. I don't know how it's handled right now (and maybe they do give it away), but certainly not many other than Preta-3D are using it. Time to change that maybe. I'd like to see Garibaldi hair or LAMH in Poser, wouldn't you? Or something similar? Or maybe even better? ;) Maybe SM needs a wake-up call. Maybe we do...

Laurie

Laurie. I don't understand why SmithMicro would need to dump spherical falloff from method options in order to move up in the world. Who needs a weight mapped lever, door, or robot? Just because a tool is new (in Poser relative terms, linear skinning is old news in just about every other app) doesn't mean its the right tool. If anyone can tell me an error in my thinking about this, please correct me. Poser does need to step up its addition of industry standard concepts if they're going to be charging that kind of loot for the pro version though. I guess pro means Pro Hobbyist?

EldritchCellar posted at 12:25PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250145

Laurie. I don't understand why SmithMicro would need to dump spherical falloff in order to move up in the world. Who needs a weight mapped lever, door, or robot? Just because a tool is new (in Poser relative terms, linear skinning is old news in just about every other app.) doesn't mean its the right tool. If anyone can tell me an error in my thinking about this, please correct me. Poser does need to step up its addition of industry standard concepts if they're going to be charging that kind of loot for the pro version though. I guess pro means Pro Hobbyist?

In software terms, Poser doesn't cost that much. However, I still need to feel like I got my money's worth ;).

I never meant we had to dump anything...but anything that keeps innovation from moving forward. If it's backward compatibility, then yeah...dump it. If it's not, keep it. I dunno about you tho, but I haven't used a generation three figure since V4 and M4 came out. I don't think I'm alone really. I no longer use my old tube television because I have a nice newer flatscreen. And yeah, I've bought more than one television in my life...no matter how much they cost. Same with cars. People always want newer, shinier, better. Human nature. Poser users are no different, no matter how often some in the community tell us we aren't ;). They'll buy newer figures and clothes too if it's an improvement over the old.

Laurie

... As far as Daz dumping backward compatibility? I don't know, they apparently started to move in that direction , geometry switching didn't work anymore in a few versions back of DS, but in current version and the new beta it works again. So... who knows?

I know how much software costs Laurie, lol. ;) 3DCoat and Substance Painter and Blender are more professional 3D apps. Cheaper. Poser is far from a complete solution.

LaurieA posted at 6:46PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250147

EldritchCellar posted at 12:25PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250145

Laurie. I don't understand why SmithMicro would need to dump spherical falloff in order to move up in the world. Who needs a weight mapped lever, door, or robot? Just because a tool is new (in Poser relative terms, linear skinning is old news in just about every other app.) doesn't mean its the right tool. If anyone can tell me an error in my thinking about this, please correct me. Poser does need to step up its addition of industry standard concepts if they're going to be charging that kind of loot for the pro version though. I guess pro means Pro Hobbyist?

In software terms, Poser doesn't cost that much. However, I still need to feel like I got my money's worth ;).

I never meant we had to dump anything...but anything that keeps innovation from moving forward. If it's backward compatibility, then yeah...dump it. If it's not, keep it. I dunno about you tho, but I haven't used a generation three figure since V4 and M4 came out. I don't think I'm alone really. I no longer use my old tube television because I have a nice newer flatscreen. And yeah, I've bought more than one television in my life...no matter how much they cost. Same with cars. People always want newer, shinier, better. Human nature. Poser users are no different, no matter how often some in the community tell us we aren't ;). They'll buy newer figures and clothes too if it's an improvement over the old.

Laurie

I doth protest! I don't have a TV, I don't have a car, I don't have a smartphone, in fact my mobile is 8 years old or so and works far better than my hubbys smartphone that keeps breaking and needing recharge lol. New isn't always better. Is Britney Spears better than David Bowie? Nuh-uh :)

Personally, I'm still using all the figures at my disposal, including gen 3 and 4 figures, Dawn, Anastasia and Antonia (I just wish there were more male figures..) I tried genesis, but didn't really see the benefit compared to what I already had, especially since they were cumbersome to use in Poser. Would I have used Genesis more had they been Poser natives? I really don't know, but something about the 'look' of the genesis figures just didn't 'click' with me, especially so for G3. So for me, it is not so much about the age and technological level of a figure, but more about the look. That said, I am really looking forward to PE!

I don't necessarily agree with everything Daz does and DS doesn't satisfy my every need. Every company has something to learn from it's customers. Maybe they put it back because they didn't realize ppl were still using it? LOL.

Like I said before, there is a lot to love about Poser. But the company needs to do things differently than they have been because it's apparently not working well for them. I had decided before not to buy the newest version of Poser. Now I'm rethinking it, but I've been wavering back and forth for months now. And I've bought every version since Poser 4 (I did skip Poser 5 tho because of the buggyness).

In these kinds of conversations, it's very hard not to mention "Daz does this or did that" because DS is Poser's direct competition. SM needs to start acting like it. They also need to understand that it also means they need to try HARDER because Poser costs money and DS is free. The big hurdle they need to overcome (maybe the biggest). The Poser users that visit this forum are obviously not happy. And I tend to think it's not Daz's fault as much as it is SMs. After all, Daz owes us and them nothing, just like SM doesn't owe Daz anything. But SM DOES owe us something in exchange for the money we give them.

Laurie

EldritchCellar posted at 12:48PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250152

I know how much software costs Laurie, lol. ;) 3DCoat and Substance Painter and Blender are more professional 3D apps. Cheaper. Poser is far from a complete solution.

Hahaha...that's true. Maybe you should shoot SM an email and ask for some of your money back. Good luck to ya there :P

Anyway, I'm kinda done for now. I suggest we find solutions rather than reasons to bitch, whine and complain. Hopefully SM is watching and taking some of it to heart...

Edit: one more BIG thing...for those that want to argue that any new figure that comes out will fail just because Daz figures exist are completely wrong. Until now, there's been no real competition and of those that could have been, the release was done completely wrong. You can't tell me that if a completely Poser set of figures came out and they looked as good as Mike and Vicky 7 and bent just as well that people wouldn't be falling over themselves to have them. I know better. But there has to be content for those figures at release, and a good bit of it if one wants adoption.

DreaminGirl posted at 10:48AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250129

bhoins posted at 5:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250125

DreaminGirl posted at 8:49AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

Funny, I recall him saying it was up to Daz 3D to push Dual Quaternion Skinning through Poser's slow and incomplete Python API.

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?102178-How-do-I-load-Victoria-7-in-Poser-11&p=929267&viewfull=1#post929267

That's not the quote I was referring to.

@Laurie I agree, I would like to see Poser live on for a long time, but I don't think Genesis is the answer. Besides, in a year or so, G3 will be replaced by something new anyway. 'Keeping up with the Joneses' seems to be what is expected, but not everyone agrees to that.

Of course it isn't the one you were referring to. It is the one where Nerd pushed the entire thing off on Daz 3d. Either Poser wants to add support or it doesn't, it can't be both ways.

Fact is new, shinier, better doesn't come to Poser until 10 years after the fact. And yet users of the new shiney things in Poser come off like they're on some kind of elite cutting edge "blah, blah, yes well blah, blah". Your new toys are old news and you paid too much for them, climb down from the pedestal.

bhoins posted at 7:00PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250160

DreaminGirl posted at 10:48AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250129

bhoins posted at 5:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250125

DreaminGirl posted at 8:49AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

Funny, I recall him saying it was up to Daz 3D to push Dual Quaternion Skinning through Poser's slow and incomplete Python API.

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?102178-How-do-I-load-Victoria-7-in-Poser-11&p=929267&viewfull=1#post929267

That's not the quote I was referring to.

@Laurie I agree, I would like to see Poser live on for a long time, but I don't think Genesis is the answer. Besides, in a year or so, G3 will be replaced by something new anyway. 'Keeping up with the Joneses' seems to be what is expected, but not everyone agrees to that.

Of course it isn't the one you were referring to. It is the one where Nerd pushed the entire thing off on Daz 3d. Either Poser wants to add support or it doesn't, it can't be both ways.

Um, not sure where you're headed with this.. If SM wants to add support for Daz content, they kinda need Daz on board. Daz has said they are not interested, so there isn't much SM can do now..

As far as "out with the old in with the new"... I'll tell you what, make a bikini for Dawn. Now make one for Aiko 3. Upload them both to shareCG. See which one gets more downloads. ;) My point is... you Poser Elite Forum Experts mostly have your heads up your asses in terms of what users seem to really want. Lol. No offense of course. Just the way it is.

WandW posted at 1:14PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250142

Male_M3dia posted at 12:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250131

One again, SM sidestepped the issue bringing in a false argument about the plugin when the full DSON spec is posted for them online to import like reading any other file format. Let not trot this false argument out because there's a major different between the "DSON Importer for Poser" and the "DSON specification". It's already been noted that DAZ has taken the importer as far as it can go because of the performance issues with python, that's why DAZ mentioned reading the specification natively, not trying to use some tool to hack the importer which would be a DCMA violation.

It's sort of moot, because DAZ is going to DRM based product distribution in Studio 4.9. Some sort of a plugin from DAZ would be needed to use any of their new content anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding something....

Only thing that would be encrypted would fall under DAZ Connect, but older content or content provided by other stores or users are not affected. I believe we went over this already in the DAZ forum, so not sure you're trying to spread misinformation in light of that.

Just want to say that I don't want to come off as insulting to Laurie or whoever but I think in terms of art (poser is regular folks aimed art making software) it's important to never forget things like nostalgia, subcultural interests, and the underdog. Perfectly bending photorealistic figures are one thing... If such a figure can't be something more besides it's a loser. Probably why Genesis gets so much toon mileage and so many Poser Toon standalones have been ported to it (3d universe, Smay, etc).

Male_M3dia posted at 1:36PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250170

WandW posted at 1:14PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250142

Male_M3dia posted at 12:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250131

One again, SM sidestepped the issue bringing in a false argument about the plugin when the full DSON spec is posted for them online to import like reading any other file format. Let not trot this false argument out because there's a major different between the "DSON Importer for Poser" and the "DSON specification". It's already been noted that DAZ has taken the importer as far as it can go because of the performance issues with python, that's why DAZ mentioned reading the specification natively, not trying to use some tool to hack the importer which would be a DCMA violation.

It's sort of moot, because DAZ is going to DRM based product distribution in Studio 4.9. Some sort of a plugin from DAZ would be needed to use any of their new content anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding something....

Only thing that would be encrypted would fall under DAZ Connect, but older content or content provided by other stores or users are not affected. I believe we went over this already in the DAZ forum, so not sure you're trying to spread misinformation in light of that.

I specifically said "their new content"...

EldritchCellar posted at 1:39PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250172

Probably why Genesis gets so much toon mileage and so many Poser Toon standalones have been ported to it (3d universe, Smay, etc).

That and you can dress them easily...

WandW posted at 1:40PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250173

Male_M3dia posted at 1:36PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250170

WandW posted at 1:14PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250142

Male_M3dia posted at 12:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250131

One again, SM sidestepped the issue bringing in a false argument about the plugin when the full DSON spec is posted for them online to import like reading any other file format. Let not trot this false argument out because there's a major different between the "DSON Importer for Poser" and the "DSON specification". It's already been noted that DAZ has taken the importer as far as it can go because of the performance issues with python, that's why DAZ mentioned reading the specification natively, not trying to use some tool to hack the importer which would be a DCMA violation.

It's sort of moot, because DAZ is going to DRM based product distribution in Studio 4.9. Some sort of a plugin from DAZ would be needed to use any of their new content anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding something....

Only thing that would be encrypted would fall under DAZ Connect, but older content or content provided by other stores or users are not affected. I believe we went over this already in the DAZ forum, so not sure you're trying to spread misinformation in light of that.

I specifically said "their new content"...

But not all, as I pointed out in their thread, just the DAZ Connect.

DreaminGirl posted at 11:44AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250165

bhoins posted at 7:00PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250160

DreaminGirl posted at 10:48AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250129

bhoins posted at 5:12PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250125

DreaminGirl posted at 8:49AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250119

Prior to the release of P11, SM did in fact reach out to Daz about Genesis implementation, but Daz was not interested (I could look for the exact quote from Nerd, but I can't be arsed)

Sure you could say that is 'too little too late', but it says to me that Daz has no interest in ever supporting Poser again, so that is the end of that discussion. Time to move on.

Funny, I recall him saying it was up to Daz 3D to push Dual Quaternion Skinning through Poser's slow and incomplete Python API.

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?102178-How-do-I-load-Victoria-7-in-Poser-11&p=929267&viewfull=1#post929267

That's not the quote I was referring to.

@Laurie I agree, I would like to see Poser live on for a long time, but I don't think Genesis is the answer. Besides, in a year or so, G3 will be replaced by something new anyway. 'Keeping up with the Joneses' seems to be what is expected, but not everyone agrees to that.

Of course it isn't the one you were referring to. It is the one where Nerd pushed the entire thing off on Daz 3d. Either Poser wants to add support or it doesn't, it can't be both ways.

Um, not sure where you're headed with this.. If SM wants to add support for Daz content, they kinda need Daz on board. Daz has said they are not interested, so there isn't much SM can do now..

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

Male_M3dia posted at 1:44PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250176

WandW posted at 1:40PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250173

Male_M3dia posted at 1:36PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250170

WandW posted at 1:14PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250142

It's sort of moot, because DAZ is going to DRM based product distribution in Studio 4.9. Some sort of a plugin from DAZ would be needed to use any of their new content anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding something....

Only thing that would be encrypted would fall under DAZ Connect, but older content or content provided by other stores or users are not affected. I believe we went over this already in the DAZ forum, so not sure you're trying to spread misinformation in light of that.

I specifically said "their new content"...

But not all, as I pointed out in their thread, just the DAZ Connect.

Yeeeeeah, but at some point soon all new DAZ content will be delivered by DAZ Connect, or am I mistaken? If so, then talking about using DAZ content natively in Poser is relevant. If not we're sort of quibbling about the meaning of the word 'is'...

bhoins posted at 7:56PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250178

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

DAZ Studio format being available to other products without royalties is a filthy lie that has been exposed many times in the past. That DAZ hench... sorry, PAs continue to spread it is a dead giveaway that it is a trap laid down on purpose (like the non enforcement of the GIF patent until near the end of its expiration was).

WandW posted at 2:02PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250180

Male_M3dia posted at 1:44PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250176

WandW posted at 1:40PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250173

Male_M3dia posted at 1:36PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250170

WandW posted at 1:14PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250142

It's sort of moot, because DAZ is going to DRM based product distribution in Studio 4.9. Some sort of a plugin from DAZ would be needed to use any of their new content anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding something....

Only thing that would be encrypted would fall under DAZ Connect, but older content or content provided by other stores or users are not affected. I believe we went over this already in the DAZ forum, so not sure you're trying to spread misinformation in light of that.

I specifically said "their new content"...

But not all, as I pointed out in their thread, just the DAZ Connect.

Yeeeeeah, but at some point soon all new DAZ content will be delivered by DAZ Connect, or am I mistaken? If so, then talking about using DAZ content natively in Poser is relevant. If not we're sort of quibbling about the meaning of the word 'is'...

Well if DAZ was supporting officially Poser, I'm sure they would account for it. But I'm thinking the importer is pretty much dead product so that wouldn't matter. But they've stated that no other features such as fbx, cr2 and collada wouldn't be disabled so experiments such as the one maya wouldn't be affected. And if Poser supported Dual Quaterion, that's how the support would have been moving forward anyway in lieu of not importing the DSON spec natively. And if they are selling to other markets, then DAZ Connect wouldn't be the only method especially with other markets selling genesis items. So we're kind a back to the whole "lets not speculate too much on DAZ when Poser is really the subject" thing ;)

chaecuna posted at 2:10PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250183

bhoins posted at 7:56PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250178

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

DAZ Studio format being available to other products without royalties is a filthy lie that has been exposed many times in the past. That DAZ hench... sorry, PAs continue to spread it is a dead giveaway that it is a trap laid down on purpose (like the non enforcement of the GIF patent until near the end of its expiration was).

Proof? Links? I think the only lie is really what you just typed.

Yanno, I wonder why I waste my breath sometimes :).

Oh well...

Laurie

bhoins posted at 8:11PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250178

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

Seriously? All Nerd said here is that SM cannot 'fix' Daz's DSON plugin, as it is not their property. Only Daz can do that. It's like saying SM should fix issues with V4, but they obviously can't because it's not their property.

DreaminGirl posted at 2:23PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250188

bhoins posted at 8:11PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250178

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

Seriously? All Nerd said here is that SM cannot 'fix' Daz's DSON plugin, as it is not their property. Only Daz can do that. It's like saying SM should fix issues with V4, but they obviously can't because it's not their property.

Again, why would Nerd feel the need to fix the DSON plugin when the DSON Specification is what needs to be read? Again there's a difference that a lot of people seem to not get. There is a fbx specification, obj specification a collada specification and there is a DSON specification... not fbx, obj and collada plugins that need to be fixed in order to get those files to be read.

Male_M3dia posted at 2:26PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250184

...So we're kind a back to the whole "lets not speculate too much on DAZ when Poser is really the subject" thing ;)

Yeeeah, that's pretty much what I said...

WandW posted at 2:29PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250192

Male_M3dia posted at 2:26PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250184

...So we're kind a back to the whole "lets not speculate too much on DAZ when Poser is really the subject" thing ;)

Yeeeah, that's pretty much what I said...

So, why did you bring it up if that was your conclusion?

Male_M3dia posted at 2:32PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250193

WandW posted at 2:29PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250192

Male_M3dia posted at 2:26PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250184

...So we're kind a back to the whole "lets not speculate too much on DAZ when Poser is really the subject" thing ;)

Yeeeah, that's pretty much what I said...

So, why did you bring it up if that was your conclusion?

Hmmm... Perhaps there's a language barrier; My point was that because of DAZ Connect's DRM, and older content being compatible with the DSON Importer, DAZ formats aren't very relevant to Poser from here on out...

chaecuna posted at 12:46PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250183

bhoins posted at 7:56PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250178

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

DAZ Studio format being available to other products without royalties is a filthy lie that has been exposed many times in the past. That DAZ hench... sorry, PAs continue to spread it is a dead giveaway that it is a trap laid down on purpose (like the non enforcement of the GIF patent until near the end of its expiration was).

Please cite your source. The actual statement from official Daz Sources, on numerous occasions, says otherwise.

I think that noone should really expect that SM will really try to get DAZ tech into Poser. The DSON plugin isn't really nice to work with, the Genesis 3 rigging isn't included, for short, it seems that SM is fine with DAZ content not working in Poser. Maybe the sales for the application itself did not drop quite as much as the sales for Poser compatible figures.

I guess the people who are really keen to use the newest DAZ tech have already switched over, or they use both apps. The actual version of Poser does not look to me as i Poser would die anytime soon.

@Male_M3dia: I really don't know why you are spending so much time here. You are happy with the DAZ tech, it seems that the sales for Genesis stuff are good. Smith Micro did not include Genesis 3 compatibility in Poser 11, so I guess that at least for the next two years there won't be a reunification. I mean, this is a Poser forum, what do you want archive here? Let us see the TRUTH?

Male_M3dia posted at 2:55PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250131

One again, SM sidestepped the issue bringing in a false argument about the plugin when the full DSON spec is posted for them online to import like reading any other file format. Let not trot this false argument out because there's a major different between the "DSON Importer for Poser" and the "DSON specification". It's already been noted that DAZ has taken the importer as far as it can go because of the performance issues with python, that's why DAZ mentioned reading the specification natively, not trying to use some tool to hack the importer which would be a DCMA violation. It seems really uninformed that after all these years, SM doesn't know the difference. But I think we're getting away from the subject revolving everything around DAZ. The discussion really should be about what Poser should be doing to address customers' concerns.

Well apparently Poserdome will not accept any other character other then DAZ characters. Even thou HiveWire3D was part of DAZ. So all I can think of someone ,anyone needs to get DAZ characters back in to Poser.

DreaminGirl posted at 12:51PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250188

bhoins posted at 8:11PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250178

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

Seriously? All Nerd said here is that SM cannot 'fix' Daz's DSON plugin, as it is not their property. Only Daz can do that. It's like saying SM should fix issues with V4, but they obviously can't because it's not their property.

What is there to fix, well other than the bug that WandW mentioned?

He was specifically responding to Genesis 3 Support in Poser, which isn't within the scope of the plug-in. To do that would require a plug-in, using an incomplete and slow Python API, to take over skinning from Poser itself.

bhoins posted at 9:07PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250204

DreaminGirl posted at 12:51PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250188

bhoins posted at 8:11PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250178

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

Seriously? All Nerd said here is that SM cannot 'fix' Daz's DSON plugin, as it is not their property. Only Daz can do that. It's like saying SM should fix issues with V4, but they obviously can't because it's not their property.

What is there to fix, well other than the bug that WandW mentioned?

He was specifically responding to Genesis 3 Support in Poser, which isn't within the scope of the plug-in. To do that would require a plug-in, using an incomplete and slow Python API, to take over skinning from Poser itself.

No, he was specifically addressing the DSON plugin. But whatever, read into it whatever you want.

Bottom line, both companies has decided to go their own ways, and we just have to accept that. I know I have.

The question that should probably be asked is not if Poser is dying but what happens if Smith Micro doesn't manage to bring itself into compliance with the NASDAQ rules and winds up getting delisted on March 8th?

Neither SM nor DAZ tried to make any Genesis figure run better in Poser in the last year. Obviouslly, for both companies this isn't really important.

[bantha]

@Male_M3dia: I really don't know why you are spending so much time here. You are happy with the DAZ tech, it seems that the sales for Genesis stuff are good. Smith Micro did not include Genesis 3 compatibility in Poser 11, so I guess that at least for the next two years there won't be a reunification. I mean, this is a Poser forum, what do you want archive here? Let us see the TRUTH?

Here's the interesting thing anyone feels the need to single me out whenever conversations go this way.

I own Poser 7, Poser 2012 and Poser 9. So I have every much of a right to post my opinion in this forum as I am a poser user as well, so you may not like it but I use the software. Not as much as I used to, but I still have on my desktop if I need to open or even test something out. So next time you feel the need to point that out, please don't

Thank you.

Also note, that there has been far negative posts by people you consider poser users that you didn't point out. Whether I post or not will not change that one bit.

I can only come to one conclusion: that Poser and DS users WANNA fight.

Ok kiddies...back to your petty squabbling. You're making SOOOOOOO much headway these last SIX years fer chrissakes....

sigh

LaurieA posted at 3:32PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250217

I can only come to one conclusion: that Poser and DS users WANNA fight.

Ok kiddies...back to your petty squabbling. You're making SOOOOOOO much headway these last SIX years fer chrissakes....

sigh

I'm right behind you. I'll watch the kids squabble among each other without being a focal point to distract the conversation.

Male_M3dia posted at 2:36PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250216

Here's the interesting thing anyone feels the need to single me out whenever conversations go this way.

I own Poser 7, Poser 2012 and Poser 9. So I have every much of a right to post my opinion in this forum as I am a poser user as well, so you may not like it but I use the software. Not as much as I used to, but I still have on my desktop if I need to open or even test something out. So next time you feel the need to point that out, please don't

Thank you.

It's not about what you own or have used. Actually it would have surprised me if you don't have some old versions of Poser. I had a lot of Studio versions on my Computer, and open them for doing some stuff from time to time. I guess I don't like it any more than you seem to like the actual Poser version. But I don't hang around in DAZ forums, then.

Also note, that there has been far negative posts by people you consider poser users that you didn't point out. Whether I post or not will not change that one bit.

This may be true, but it does not make it better. "There are worse people than me" isn't really a good excuse for anything

DreaminGirl posted at 1:55PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250208

bhoins posted at 9:07PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250204

DreaminGirl posted at 12:51PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250188

bhoins posted at 8:11PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250178

The format, as has been stated repeatedly, is open. If SM wants to build a native importer they can, the only thing stopping SM, is SM. And Your comment about reaching out to Daz is contradicted by Nerd himself.

Seriously? All Nerd said here is that SM cannot 'fix' Daz's DSON plugin, as it is not their property. Only Daz can do that. It's like saying SM should fix issues with V4, but they obviously can't because it's not their property.

What is there to fix, well other than the bug that WandW mentioned?

He was specifically responding to Genesis 3 Support in Poser, which isn't within the scope of the plug-in. To do that would require a plug-in, using an incomplete and slow Python API, to take over skinning from Poser itself.

No, he was specifically addressing the DSON plugin. But whatever, read into it whatever you want.

Bottom line, both companies has decided to go their own ways, and we just have to accept that. I know I have.

The question stands, other than the issue that WandW brought up, what is it that needs to be fixed with the DSON Importer for Poser?

bantha posted at 3:59PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250225

Male_M3dia posted at 2:36PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250216

Here's the interesting thing anyone feels the need to single me out whenever conversations go this way.

I own Poser 7, Poser 2012 and Poser 9. So I have every much of a right to post my opinion in this forum as I am a poser user as well, so you may not like it but I use the software. Not as much as I used to, but I still have on my desktop if I need to open or even test something out. So next time you feel the need to point that out, please don't

Thank you.

It's not about what you own or have used. Actually it would have surprised me if you don't have some old versions of Poser. I had a lot of Studio versions on my Computer, and open them for doing some stuff from time to time. I guess I don't like it any more than you seem to like the actual Poser version. But I don't hang around in DAZ forums, then.

Also note, that there has been far negative posts by people you consider poser users that you didn't point out. Whether I post or not will not change that one bit.

This may be true, but it does not make it better. "There are worse people than me" isn't really a good excuse for anything

But I'm going to point out that you're actually making a personal attack rather than actually discussing the subject. Did you have something to actually contribute to this subject? I would get back to that.

This is enough guys ... it's getting beyond a friendly debate and moving into software bashing and squabbling. Nothing constructive is going on here ... and the bottom line is that is what these forums are for.