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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 21 6:06 am)



Subject: e-bots? Who is having trouble?


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LaurieA ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 9:13 AM

Latexluv posted at 10:12AM Fri, 22 January 2016 - #4250606

Same here. The problems about Ebots has not be solved at all.

but it seems we DO have some new ones. Urgh.

Laurie



prixat ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 10:46 AM · edited Fri, 22 January 2016 at 10:47 AM

I suppose being unsubscribed from threads is, technically speaking, a solution to the 'no ebots' problem.

🤓

regards
prixat


bagginsbill ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 12:24 PM · edited Fri, 22 January 2016 at 12:25 PM

Since my last post I got an ebot for Latexluv's post, but not for Laurie or prixat. I read each anyway without an ebot. So - more evidence that there is a flag and that sometimes making a post sets it, but reading does not.

I got a sitemail PM from an admin regarding this topic. I am not permitted to quote PMs so I won't tell you what it says.

I will tell you that the "programmers" (please say with air quotes and rolling eyes) have not done anything about it yet, if I am to believe what I read.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


bagginsbill ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 12:26 PM · edited Fri, 22 January 2016 at 12:26 PM

I would like to draw all your attention to my signature below. I made that threat 8 days ago. I wonder what I should choose for an actual deadline.

(For readers of the future, it says if they don't fix this soon, I'm out of here.)


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


Latexluv ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 4:29 PM

I only received an ebot for the post right after my own but not for those following or Bagginsbill's posts. I have to leave for a few days for a family thing, I can hope it is fixed while I am gone but at this rate, I don't have a lot of confidence. Bagginsbill already stated how this problem could be fixed, I wish a programmer would actually look at this thread and read about it and then do it!

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 


gmm2 ( ) posted Sat, 23 January 2016 at 1:02 AM

The thing about BB's fix is that it might not actually work in this situation. From what I'm hearing from some of the other staff, the e-bot issue may (and I can't stress this enough: may) be part of a larger issue, beyond the scope of a few lines of code.

Don't take may word as gospel on this as I'm not high-level staff, and please don't let this become a rumor, for good or ill. It is only what I've read from others.


LaurieA ( ) posted Sat, 23 January 2016 at 12:10 PM

gmm2 posted at 1:09PM Sat, 23 January 2016 - #4250743

The thing about BB's fix is that it might not actually work in this situation. From what I'm hearing from some of the other staff, the e-bot issue may (and I can't stress this enough: may) be part of a larger issue, beyond the scope of a few lines of code.

Don't take may word as gospel on this as I'm not high-level staff, and please don't let this become a rumor, for good or ill. It is only what I've read from others.

But you would think that a company that does websites for a living would know how to run this down and fix it. You would think. Apparently that ain't the case.

Laurie



3dcheapskate ( ) posted Sun, 24 January 2016 at 4:56 AM

gmm2 posted at 5:53PM Sun, 24 January 2016 - #4250743

The thing about BB's fix is that it might not actually work in this situation. From what I'm hearing from some of the other staff, the e-bot issue may (and I can't stress this enough: may) be part of a larger issue, beyond the scope of a few lines of code.

Don't take may word as gospel on this as I'm not high-level staff, and please don't let this become a rumor, for good or ill. It is only what I've read from others.

DAZ seem to be having a similar problem, e.g. the limited time freebies thread. Maybe these one-size-fits-all forum software(s) that everybody's using...

...well, maybe they don't. ;o)


The 3Dcheapskate* occasionally posts sensible stuff. Usually by accident.
And it usually uses Poser 11, with units set to inches. Except when it's using Poser 6 or PP2014, or when its units are set to PNU.

*also available in ShareCG, DAZ, and HiveWire3D flavours (the DeviantArt and CGBytes flavour have been discontinued).



RorrKonn ( ) posted Sun, 24 January 2016 at 11:44 AM

a lot of forums problems these days is they need to work with so many different browsers for pc's phones etc etc.got to have the $$$ to pay for webmasters also.

I posted to new threads but wasn't automatically subscribed to the threads.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


Glen ( ) posted Sun, 24 January 2016 at 6:57 PM

Everything Bagginsbill said in his first four posts, including the miffed bit, minus the "I could do it" bit.

There, that's my input. I know I won't hear any more about it, and therein lies the problem, lol!

I'm running Win 10 Pro 32GB RAM Intel Core i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 Ti


My DA Gallery: glen85.deviantart.com/gallery


Peace, love and polygons!


RorrKonn ( ) posted Fri, 29 January 2016 at 9:37 PM · edited Fri, 29 January 2016 at 9:37 PM

I keep getting automatically unsubscribed from threads. Think if ya edit your post might automatically unsubscribed you.

Ebots still don't work right either

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


bagginsbill ( ) posted Sat, 30 January 2016 at 9:36 AM

I got unsubscribed again as well, RK.

This forum is completely bonkers. Threat level increased - it's been over two weeks since I made my ultimatum and more than a week since I've heard ANYTHING from staff.

DUDES! This is super important and you don't seem to recognize it. People don't know that others are posting. The result is traffic is DROPPING.

You added more advertisements, and now fewer people see them - did that make any sense? Any at all?


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


bagginsbill ( ) posted Sat, 30 January 2016 at 9:38 AM

I see a couple threads I should be posting in but I'm so disgusted I don't feel like it. Next thing you know, my images will start disappearing again like they did last year.

I'm not going to waste my time here.

Reiterating - If you have questions for me, DO NOT ASK HERE - I won't participate using this software and even if I want to I won't know you're talking.

Go to runtimedna to ask me stuff about lighting and shaders.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


RorrKonn ( ) posted Sat, 30 January 2016 at 5:09 PM

Being this thread is so small ,apparently there's only a hand full of us that have bot problems.

Does the bots work right for most ?

Maybe buy the time this thread reaches page 100. bots will work right for every one.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


Latexluv ( ) posted Sun, 31 January 2016 at 1:43 AM

I was unsubscribed again and had to come here and see responses. I am NOT getting Ebots!!!!! Get this fixed! Not next year, but right now. People have been complaining about it long enough to have made an impact.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 


RorrKonn ( ) posted Thu, 04 February 2016 at 1:45 AM

They won't notice till the signal fires get big enough

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Thu, 04 February 2016 at 7:15 AM · edited Thu, 04 February 2016 at 7:16 AM

I hate notifications. Lol. No seriously. I don't subscribe knowingly to any threads. I still get all these annoying notifications...

"I want to be alone"



W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5


My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG




DarthJ ( ) posted Thu, 04 February 2016 at 1:35 PM

Well, either nobody is interested in my freebies or the E-bots don't work.





ssgbryan ( ) posted Thu, 04 February 2016 at 6:31 PM

The ebots don't work.



EldritchCellar ( ) posted Thu, 04 February 2016 at 6:43 PM

Your freebie is plainly visible at ShareCG DarthJ. If you're talking about the freestuff here... you are in a shoving match with bras for Genesis. Nuff said.



W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5


My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG




Latexluv ( ) posted Thu, 04 February 2016 at 6:59 PM

FIX THIS!!! I've been repeatedly unsubscribed to this thread. I still only get an ebot if someone directly replies to my post and then cricket song.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 


RorrKonn ( ) posted Thu, 04 February 2016 at 8:34 PM · edited Thu, 04 February 2016 at 8:36 PM

DarthJ maybe put a link to your free stuff in your signature like Death Metal does


6 pages of DarthJ killer FREE Meshes,no eBots required ;)

I would make the signature color different thou

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


DarthJ ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 8:05 AM

I made a link to the thread, not straight to the freebies at Sharecg which are visible enough according to the downloads. Needs work though : how do I change the link into a funny message ?





EldritchCellar ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 8:41 AM · edited Fri, 05 February 2016 at 8:54 AM

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_links.asp

A Funny Message

Not sure why you would sig link to such a transient thing as a single freebie thread when you have a whole rendo officially sanctioned sticky of your own here though. The thread will be buried in the sands of time in short notice, your sticky is permanent. ;)



W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5


My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG




EldritchCellar ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 8:58 AM

Nevermind... I see. Hope that link helps. :)



W10 Pro, HP Envy X360 Laptop, Intel Core i7-10510U, NVIDIA GeForce MX250, Intel UHD, 16 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM, 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD

Mudbox 2022, Adobe PS CC, Poser Pro 11.3, Blender 2.9, Wings3D 2.2.5


My Freestuff and Gallery at ShareCG




RorrKonn ( ) posted Sat, 06 February 2016 at 5:53 PM

So anyone's eBots working right ?

I didn't get a eBot from the DSON Importer/Genesis 3 thread so mines still broke :(

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


IsaoShi ( ) posted Sat, 06 February 2016 at 8:16 PM

Confirmed, Rendo forum eBots haven't worked at all for me for a long time. I think Gallery eBots are working though.

"If I were a shadow, I know I wouldn't like to be half of what I should be."
Mr Otsuka, the old black tomcat in Kafka on the Shore (Haruki Murakami)


shvrdavid ( ) posted Sun, 07 February 2016 at 1:44 AM · edited Sun, 07 February 2016 at 1:50 AM

What does it really matter at this point? They are not going to fix it. Even after people point out issues, they obviously get round filed if they are not already fixed, not in the budget, etc. If there is truth in advertising, this forum paints an ugly picture of whoever wrote it.

I am pretty much done here as well. But what does that really matter??? Lots of other people are fed up with it and nothing gets done about it.. They don't appear to care a bit about people that have given freely to the community for years. It is like none of them exist anymore, and what they notice doesn't matter a bit. Out with the old, and in with the new. What they don't seem to realize s that you can't easily replace years of experience with new. You can forget doing it for free, it is going to cost one way or the other.

The forum issues here, are a small problem. After all, it only affects the forum users........... I doubt they make much money off the forums. So why would they invest any more time or money in it? It would appear, well, you can come to your own conclusions there.

There are substantial bugs in the forum code here. I have no idea whom that someone is, and you can bet they wont step up and tell us who they are either.

Don't believe me about the bugs? Then why is the this the most viewed thread in the Poser forum? (Bet you didn't realize it was did you !!!)

Nothing has changed much They will just keep pushing it on the MODs to thank people for reporting it, and tell them we are looking into it... Makes you feel bad for the MODs, especially when you see "pass the crap down the ladder" make it all the way to them.



Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->


RorrKonn ( ) posted Sun, 07 February 2016 at 3:18 AM · edited Sun, 07 February 2016 at 3:18 AM

LOL I didn't get a eBot on the eBots not working thread.

Anyways shvrdavid I expect the eBots to be fixed by the time this thread reaches 100 pages.

a 100 page thread alt to be a big enough signal fire.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


shvrdavid ( ) posted Sun, 07 February 2016 at 5:00 PM · edited Sun, 07 February 2016 at 5:02 PM

If it was a hundred pages long, it would probably get locked... lol...

There isn't a problem that affects the bottom line. If it affected the bottom line, it would have been long since fixed.. By the time they notice that it does, many people will have already left in disgust.

I rarely post here anymore, and that does not affect the bottom line here in any way.... People moving to another forum is fine by me, history is repeating itself again...

I have been a member here a long time, possibly far longer than the people running it now. They can't possibly remember what happened in the past if they were not here, even thou it is heading that direction again.



Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store ->   <-Freebies->


RorrKonn ( ) posted Sun, 07 February 2016 at 10:35 PM

User Forum Statistics - shvrdavid •Member Since: 02 Oct 2001 •Total posts: 1161

User Forum Statistics - RorrKonn •Member Since: 24 Jul 2001 •Total posts: 3797

Dang we've been around here for a long time. Ya the odds of a thread lasting a 100 pages long are slim to none but we could always go to plan B n buy Renderosity n hire BB to fix are eBots.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


RorrKonn ( ) posted Mon, 15 February 2016 at 7:51 PM

I didn't get a eBot :(

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


LaurieA ( ) posted Mon, 15 February 2016 at 11:14 PM · edited Mon, 15 February 2016 at 11:16 PM

I've been here a long time too...left, came back, left again....but I've never seen it quite this bad. I've come to the realization that the forum ebots will NEVER be fixed, the MP and site search will always suck, the new freebie requirements are just f-ing ridiculous and no one who has anything to do with getting things done on this site gives a ____. It SURE seems that way.

To the powers that be: that sound you aren't hearing is the sound of people LEAVING.

Laurie



RorrKonn ( ) posted Tue, 16 February 2016 at 1:59 AM · edited Tue, 16 February 2016 at 2:00 AM

They will all come back ,when there's a reason to. maybe pe or she will be reason enough for them to come back.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


Latexluv ( ) posted Tue, 16 February 2016 at 3:57 AM

This issue seems to have been totally forgotten. I guess that I just don't understand why the powers that be will not fix it.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 


RorrKonn ( ) posted Tue, 23 February 2016 at 1:37 AM

are eBots fixed yet ?

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


WandW ( ) posted Tue, 23 February 2016 at 6:58 PM

I accidentally hit the Mark All Read button yesterday, and I have now stopped getting them completely, even in response to posts I've made since... 😡

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home


RorrKonn ( ) posted Mon, 29 February 2016 at 12:33 AM

I think the eBots are getting better :)

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 29 February 2016 at 12:04 PM

Well I'm still not getting one for you posting in this thread, so it's still broken.

I came back to respond to something you said a few days ago, RK.

"They will all come back ,when there's a reason to. maybe pe or she will be reason enough for them to come back."

Nope, they will NOT. PE is at cgbytes and they opened a node forum there, too, and I'm already pretty happy over there.

They had some ebot problems. I talked about how it should work. In LESS THAN 24 HOURS, they fixed it to perfection.

That, my friend, is a web site with competence and concern for members.

Bye.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 29 February 2016 at 12:07 PM

I need to edit my signature. I gave them six weeks to do what the other dudes did in 24 hours. No fix, and not even the courtesy of a response.

Somebody, turn out the lights before you go.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


hornet3d ( ) posted Mon, 29 February 2016 at 1:47 PM

Well the latest fun phrase, used when locking threads is 'there is nothing left to discuss'. It may well be that the threads had run their course but I think the words apply to a lot more than the forums.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.


RorrKonn ( ) posted Fri, 04 March 2016 at 12:40 AM

No Grave Yards here

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


RorrKonn ( ) posted Tue, 22 March 2016 at 9:23 PM

Are the eBots fixed yet ?

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


Boni ( ) posted Wed, 23 March 2016 at 6:24 AM

According to the information I was given recently, they are not fixed yet ... but that it is "more complicated that we anticipated" and they are actively working on it as a top priority. The feeling I get is that they are as frustrated as we are in finding a solution.

Boni



"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork


3DFineries ( ) posted Wed, 23 March 2016 at 6:30 AM

Sometimes I get them & sometimes I don't. The reason it's complicated isn't the ebots themselves, imho, it's the member's email accounts that are rejecting the ebots. Yahoo has problems out the nose. Their servers don't like Ebots & will let them go through sometimes & others, they come the next day or two days later. Sometimes not at all. I have a gmail account setup too & I never have a problem with it.

Have a creative day!

********

My Lil' Store




RorrKonn ( ) posted Wed, 23 March 2016 at 11:08 AM

Windows 8 didn't come with the home email :( there where rumors of ways to keep your home email but I didn't have 3 days to figure it out. These days I use outlook.com email .Can't save emails to ya hard drive :( but I'm told it's progress ,lol.

I get eBot replies from all the other forums zBrush ,Substance ,Blender etc etc .zBrush your automatically subscribed when you start a thread or respond to a post but Substance ,Blender even if you start a thread or respond to a post your not subscribe until you manually click on the subscribe button to that thread.

Most sites there Site and there Forums are 2 different urls.

http://pixologic.com ______ http://www.zbrushcentral.com/forum.php

https://allegorithmic.com ______ https://forum.allegorithmic.com

I feel for the dudes having this much trouble with the eBots ,I really do. but at this point they really need to stop and ask for directions.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


WandW ( ) posted Wed, 23 March 2016 at 12:39 PM

I last got one from this thread on February 29th... 😡

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home


Latexluv ( ) posted Fri, 25 March 2016 at 2:09 AM

No notifications at all that there have been replies to this thread. Problem is still there. Perhaps there shouldn't have been so much concentration on making the site smart phone friendly. I absolutely hate how the free stuff and galleries load up with all those swirling circles. Annoying beyond reason.

"A lonely climber walks a tightrope to where dreams are born and never die!" - Billy Thorpe, song: Edge of Madness, album: East of Eden's Gate

Weapons of choice:

Poser Pro 2012, SR2, Paintshop Pro 8

 

 


coldrake ( ) posted Fri, 25 March 2016 at 2:28 PM

3DFineries posted at 12:24PM Fri, 25 March 2016 - #4262195

The reason it's complicated isn't the ebots themselves, imho, it's the member's email accounts that are rejecting the ebots. Yahoo has problems out the nose. Their servers don't like Ebots & will let them go through sometimes & others, they come the next day or two days later. Sometimes not at all.

If that were true, all forums would have that problem. They don't. Only here.


RorrKonn ( ) posted Fri, 25 March 2016 at 5:54 PM

Latexluv posted at 6:48PM Fri, 25 March 2016 - #4262552

No notifications at all that there have been replies to this thread. Problem is still there. Perhaps there shouldn't have been so much concentration on making the site smart phone friendly. I absolutely hate how the free stuff and galleries load up with all those swirling circles. Annoying beyond reason.

The term "smart phone" leaves a lot to be desired.

============================================================ 

The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance


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