I 'spoke' with Gerald yesterday [ie. email] and he said that there was a new user guide {written by wimvdb so the translation from French to English isn't just "Googleised"} and also a new version of VWD coming "soon" (we all know that word can be so subjective - but I imagine it'll be within the month or so).... When that is released, perhaps you can have another go then....... BTW, do you have any CPU/RAM monitoring software? - even just using the inbuilt Task Manager (I assume you're on a PC as I don't think VWD is available for MAC] Performance tab may give you some extra info; perhaps you're running out of RAM, although I think you mentioned you had 32GB of RAM(?), which is the same as me as well as SickleYield, I believe......... Just another thought. Ultimately, as you mention; us hobbyists do this for fun and when it's no longer fun - go onto something else; at least for a while (I jump back and forth between 5 or so different softwares for my art - ultimately hoping to be good enough at each to be able to use all of them in a workflow to create my art. And then learn some more...).

marble posted at 5:05AM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297529

Thanks for taking the time to comment, I do appreciate the advice. It isn't anything to do with a lack of support that frustrates me. It isn't even that it is technically difficult - I am technical by occupation and nature so I know I can learn it eventually. It is the fact that every time I take a step further it crashes on me. I've noted the warnings about remembering to delete the exchange files so I do that obsessively now.

I think you mentioned something important when you pointed out that most of the users here are working in Poser. Perhaps that version doesn't crash as much as the DAZ Studio version. I don't believe it only crashes for me - it has been mentioned in the DAZ forums and even SickleYield - who recommends VWD and has made a 20 minute video tutorial about it - says that it crashes a lot. It crashes a couple of times during the video!

You are probably right to say that I should leave it alone for a while. A new version might bring more stability - who knows. As I said above, that's what I did with DAZ Studio when it was crashing a lot for me. Now it is stable and I enjoy the hobby again.

VWD itself is the same for both Poser and DS. I don't think that is the problem here. I use a static simulation for a conforming cloth where the cloth follows the pose. VWD will add the the realistic draping. For a pose where the figure is seated or lying on the floor, you have to use a dynamic pose. You will need this to have the cloth collide properly to a chair or the floor. In such a case you would go from zero pose to final pose in the simulation. Since this is a fluid movement, you will need to add extra frames at the end to let the cloth come to a rest (settle poses) after the movement has finished.

You did not say when you got the error, but from what i saw in Geralds video, the dress has a pretty high density. So reduce the value of Use vertices extension to a lower value to compensate (this will create less springs).

As a general remark for using VWD - start simple to get familiar on how VWD works. Once you have done that, go to more complex poses where you interact with other objects such as other clothing, floor, props, wind, etc.

I don't think there was a crash during the video. Gerald once stopped and resumed the recording to skip some of the simulation to shorten the video.

Quote: "I don't think there was a crash during the video. Gerald once stopped and resumed the recording to skip some of the simulation to shorten the video."

Sorry, I didn't mean Gerald's video, I meant the video tutorial SickleYield made for DAZ Studio users of VWD. If you watch that you will see VWD crash.

Gerald made his video to show me that this particular dress works fine with VWD. This was because I thought there might be a need to decimate it as I thought it might be high density.

As I am currently stuck myself with a simulation of a skirt, I thought I may as well ask here. The skirt in question is Daemon skirt for G3F and there are three separate pieces that each requires it's own sim; the main skirt (which is pretty much a rectangle of cloth at the front and another at the back) as well as a left and right sash. http://www.daz3d.com/daemon-outfit-for-genesis-3-female-s I am wanting the skirt to appear stiffer, like leather whereas the sim make it look more like silk or polyester. How can I make the material simulate as being thicker/stiffer? I'm thinking I need to play with the rigidity setting but I have no idea where to start. Oh, and just to make it more interesting (aka. difficult), the sashes are too short to collide with the floor but the main skirt will as my pose for G3F is kneeling on one knee. Suggestions, magical incantations, recipes, anything else that may help - all welcome....................;)

Agree with Erwin: somedays nothing works (even without any crash) some other everything works. Funny to talk about Lamh because with my last project I used the Alessandro fox and had plenty of crash ! But I'm stubborn and found another strategy after a good night sleep

@Erwin: why are are you making 3 simu for the skirt? I would not use stifness by neighborough but by extension (with a very low softness parameter) for the clothe. And then select the belt and some vertices near and use stiffness by neighborough to keep pieces together. Don't understand the knee trouble!

@marble : I have rarely crashes with the program. If you want, I can send you the version I used in the demo, but I am not sure this will solve the problem. I just need an email to send you the program.

I understand I don't make enough tutorials. My English is not good at all, but I reach a level that allows me to make these tutorials directly in English. Video tutorials in French are not useful to you and Subtitles ask me a lot of time.

My goal is to improve VWD to be able to adapt a simulation for a clothe or hair in real time and then be able to do a simulation that fit perfectly to the needs. This project is a long time work and I need you help and your patience to reach this goal.

VirtualWorldDynamics posted at 5:04PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297549

@marble : I have rarely crashes with the program. If you want, I can send you the version I used in the demo, but I am not sure this will solve the problem. I just need an email to send you the program.

I understand I don't make enough tutorials. My English is not good at all, but I reach a level that allows me to make these tutorials directly in English. Video tutorials in French are not useful to you and Subtitles ask me a lot of time.

My goal is to improve VWD to be able to adapt a simulation for a clothe or hair in real time and then be able to do a simulation that fit perfectly to the needs. This project is a long time work and I need you help and your patience to reach this goal.

Perhaps it doesn't crash for you because you know how to avoid doing things that cause a crash. Or perhaps you use it with Poser mostly? I don't know why it crashes for me but it does often.

I'll happily send you my email but I'd rather wait for a fully tested and released update. I think your goals for the program are excellent and I am sure you will keep improving it. I will start using it again - perhaps after I have had a chance to read the new user guide so that I understand all the parameters better. If I could get it to work for me I am sure I would use it every day - especially when it starts to work with the GPU, then you will be approaching real-time.

By the way, I think your English is pretty good. Much better than my French, c'est vrai.

I'm between two projects. Let's take a character (G3F) a standard pose for G3F (your choice) and a dress (your choice but simple) and I may show you how I do it in detail. If you want!

Smaker1 posted at 8:05PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297582

I'm between two projects. Let's take a character (G3F) a standard pose for G3F (your choice) and a dress (your choice but simple) and I may show you how I do it in detail. If you want!

Deal - but if it crashes I'm outta here. ;)

G3F and, take your pick (all G2F dresses): X Skirt, W Skirt or Beautiful Skirt (all Cute3D) or La Llorona's Frock for Genesis 2 Female. They all have plenty of scope for draping.

Poses: either Fashion Model Pose 10 or any of the Capsces Fun & Flirty sitting poses.

This mostly represents the tries I've been attempting all week.

Bad luck for the clothe, another one? Ok for the pose (victoria 7 sit A?)

Lucid Dream Dress? Surely everyone has that - it's a PC item.

OK give me a few minutes

This one?

Ok here is my result (quick and dirty)

Is it Ok for you? You need a little animation

The bottom of the dress don't follow (manual adjustment with morph) that's why I used an anim. Do you want the detail?

Yes please ... step by step if possible. I want to isolate where I'm going wrong.

By the way, I've never tried an animated drape.

OK new ds4 scene frame 0: load G3F and conform the dress I change the Y postion of G3F to -58.16 because if it goes down to quickly the dress will come under her arms!!

I didn't lower more because I don't want the dress to go through the floor because the VWD floor will be used as collision in VWD

step2

frame 20 I applied the flirty pose Check the Y pose to be sure if it's zero (not an animation specialist)

Save the scene!!

Smaker1 posted at 9:03PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297598

I didn't lower more because I don't want the dress to go through the floor because the VWD floor will be used as collision in VWD

Ok - you keep going and assume I'm following. I'll ask questions if I need to.

Step 3

start VWD delete all exchange files and restore default parameters (utilities)

G3F: collision (2 click: default parameters) LD Dress: clothe (2 click: default parameters)

Step 4

click on "force and spring" Tab the "vertice selection" tab will also open selection by material: select Skirt-ld-dress-VWD: the skirt will be red

Sorry I also have a beta version but it's the same for you

I don't have a Forces and Springs Tab

Ok - found it

Step5 click on INV: now it's the upper of the dress which is red click on neighbours one time click on Nail to collision: VWD will calculate the springs (I have memory usage: 615 m). I used nail to collision to be sure the clothe follow the G3F body.

Now let's simulate!

Step 6 Simulate tab

Keep all parameter by default, I lowered the gravity to 0.5

Click "Start dynamic simulation"

I have 704 Mb but ok, what next?

My Multithread reads 4 by default

at the end VWD will run the anim click on esc key

frame 10, 20 and 30

Finish !!

at the bottom you can move the cursor to the frame you want

between frame 20 and 30 (where G3F is in it's final pose) you choose what you want to send to DS4 as you do still render

Apply a smooth modifer to the VWD object in DS4 to have a better result

ta daaa!! The parameters are far from perfects but it's to show the process.

last:

(I spend more time to explain than to do it!) .

So, your result ?

Well, thank you. That's the first time I've completed a drape (only by following you, of course). Still, it didn't crash or get hung up working on a small area.

Next question is - how to drag the cloth while it is draping? I guess that can only be done with a static drape, right? Could a static drape be run from this point?

marble posted at 10:34PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297378

Please have a look at my parameters and see if you can see anything glaringly wrong?

I came back to your post : the floor have a value of 0.1. That mean that the VWD floor will go upper. When I see the pose you want to use the VWD: floor goes through G3F that could be a reason of simulation problem (even VWD is robust!).

I thought I had been sticking to defaults except the parameters suggested by the Biscuits video.

marble posted at 10:37PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297615

Next question is - how to drag the cloth while it is draping? I guess that can only be done with a static drape, right? Could a static drape be run from this point?

I use dragging at the end of simulation on the last frame (shift key) .

Read the actual manual (even if it's old there are plenty of informations) . Remember: dynamic simulation recreate real life so if you create something absurd (floor going through the body for example) It will be hard for VWD!

Hope you more confident to use VWD now

marble posted at 10:41PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297617

I thought I had been sticking to defaults except the parameters suggested by the Biscuits video.

Different cases, different parameters: I often reset when I create a new project. It"s up to you now to improve the simulation parameters to get better results

So after it has finished you can go to the last frame and start dragging the cloth?

I think the new manual is ready now so I'll dive into that as soon as it is released. But thanks for your help - it does look like doing an animated drape is the way to go. I wonder if there's a situation when a static drape would be more suitable?

marble posted at 10:44PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297615

Next question is - how to drag the cloth while it is draping? I guess that can only be done with a static drape, right? Could a static drape be run from this point?

You can drag even with animation. It's not something to do when you want to do animation render because there will be too much differences between the frames (that's the purpose of the warning). but for still render you can do it : use the frame corresponding to the final pose (between 20 or 30). You can send pose to host (not the animation because it close VWD) to see what's the result without closing VWD and go back to VWD and make more adjustments

No VWD is clearly not a waste!

marble posted at 10:47PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297620

So after it has finished you can go to the last frame and start dragging the cloth?

I think the new manual is ready now so I'll dive into that as soon as it is released. But thanks for your help - it does look like doing an animated drape is the way to go. I wonder if there's a situation when a static drape would be more suitable?

yes! for example, autofit (V4 T shirt on G3F for example) can create bad shape (around the breasts). You can do a static simu to get a better clothe shape.

Smaker1 posted at 9:50PM Wed, 15 February 2017 - #4297621

No VWD is clearly not a waste!

You are starting to convince me.

I will ask VWD to pay me now !

Time to go to bed for me. Have fun!

Thanks so much. Sleep well.

Just an update. I tried it on my own after this, with a different dress (G2F Allure Chemise) and it crashed again following the same procedure as above. This time the error was Memory Insufficient. And here was I thinking 32GB should be enough.

And to be precise: this was a clean new scene, after a reboot and I did delete exchange files. A single G3F character for collision and a simple dress as cloth.

And the next attempt, again a new scene (different dress - the G2F Seana Dress). Again I deleted the exchange files. Again it crashed. No, sorry, I'm not wasting any more time on this. I'll try again in 6 months - maybe the crashing will have been solved by then.

marble posted at 8:56AM Thu, 16 February 2017 - #4297640

Just an update. I tried it on my own after this, with a different dress (G2F Allure Chemise) and it crashed again following the same procedure as above. This time the error was Memory Insufficient. And here was I thinking 32GB should be enough.

And to be precise: this was a clean new scene, after a reboot and I did delete exchange files. A single G3F character for collision and a simple dress as cloth.

Memory insufficient is not linked to your 32 GB of Memory. I have also this error (with the same amount of memory) depending of the clothe (especially for the last clothes made for G3 which have an important number of polygons). The limitation is linked to the number of springs generated and to keep dynamic simulation calculation time reasonable. So it's quite "normal".

There are many solutions to prevent this, at least two:

• a parameter in VWD when you create the clothe, can't remember the one (and not in front of my home computer!). Can give it later
• decimator in DS4

Bugger! Marble, you are having the worst luck! I have NEVER cleared any cache (guess I should learn how to), I use DAZ Studio (I started using VWD in Poser just so I could use the program - this was before the bridges were created) and I can recall only ever having had one crash. Have you used the Task Manager to see if you are running out of RAM or CPU (ie. at 100% - though many rendering programs also run at the full 100%; so it's not a definite "this is the problem", but it may give you some more info..........)? I understand your giving up (for now); wait and see what the next release brings (like an updated user guide)............ All the best.

Smaker1, Regarding the dress sim I'm playing with, I'm doing 3 sims because each of the sashes in the dress are physically separate pieces and show up separately in the host list. I've gotten some advice from Gerald (via email) and was already working with the settings he recommended (so I was happy about that); so far, the separate sashes have been done to my satisfaction (ie. the sashes aren't just a pile on the ground, so I'm happy...lol) and I have yet to play with the front and back pieces of the main skirt. As for the kneeling part; all I meant was that the skirt would be colliding with the floor as well as G3F. It shouldn't be a problem but as I haven't yet had a successful simulation that I could use in a finished artwork, I am still very much learning (but getting there)............! I've attached a few screencaps; I hope [only using the camera headlamp - no lighting done yet], so you can see where I'm at. I think I will need to "pose" the skirt panels so that they are above the floor, rather than sticking through it, before setting up a sim, but I can do that using the rotate for each piece (for a brand new piece of clothing for G3F, I am amazed that there are virtually no posing morphs other than moving the pieces slightly left or right -basically only standing poses. DAZ 3D should be more stringent in their vetting of content for sale - especially in a pro bundle)....

Sashes draped - time to sim the skirt.png

I don't know why, but one image was uploaded as a link; the other as the actual image but untitled ["Looking at the right sash"]

Erwin0265 posted at 10:57AM Thu, 16 February 2017 - #4297668

Bugger! Marble, you are having the worst luck! I have NEVER cleared any cache (guess I should learn how to), I use DAZ Studio (I started using VWD in Poser just so I could use the program - this was before the bridges were created) and I can recall only ever having had one crash. Have you used the Task Manager to see if you are running out of RAM or CPU (ie. at 100% - though many rendering programs also run at the full 100%; so it's not a definite "this is the problem", but it may give you some more info..........)? I understand your giving up (for now); wait and see what the next release brings (like an updated user guide)............ All the best.

Here's the thing. I have a one year old, custom built PC which I only use for DAZ Studio. I have an iMac for other computing needs. The PC has a Skylake i7, 32 GB Ram and a GTX 1070 GPU. Not a professional rendering machine but pretty high spec for a hobby. If VWD needs more than that then I don't want VWD.

Yes I do monitor the performance. I have an app that sits in the task area and monitors all manner of system parameters, including CPU use, temperatures, RAM use, GPU load - you name it, it monitors it. Not only that, I can actually hear the fans come on when the CPU is working hard. VWD doesn't even cause an increase in fan speed.

If I were the only one getting crashes, I'd be worried about the PC but I'm not. Apart from what SicklYied says in her tutorial, others on the DAZ forums have also commented about how crash prone it is. Why some don't get crashes is interesting but I can only speak of my own experiences. I've attempted probably 20 or 30 simulations by now and most have exited with some kind of error. The exercise earlier with Smaker1 was actually the first time I've had a success and I was very optimistic that I now had a correct procedure. But then I tried 2 or 3 more and they all stopped on errors. Enough is enough.

Erwin0265 posted at 12:12PM Thu, 16 February 2017 - #4297668

Bugger! Marble, you are having the worst luck! I have NEVER cleared any cache (guess I should learn how to), I use DAZ Studio (I started using VWD in Poser just so I could use the program - this was before the bridges were created) and I can recall only ever having had one crash. Have you used the Task Manager to see if you are running out of RAM or CPU (ie. at 100% - though many rendering programs also run at the full 100%; so it's not a definite "this is the problem", but it may give you some more info..........)? I understand your giving up (for now); wait and see what the next release brings (like an updated user guide)............ All the best.

Smaker1, Regarding the dress sim I'm playing with, I'm doing 3 sims because each of the sashes in the dress are physically separate pieces and show up separately in the host list. I've gotten some advice from Gerald (via email) and was already working with the settings he recommended (so I was happy about that); so far, the separate sashes have been done to my satisfaction (ie. the sashes aren't just a pile on the ground, so I'm happy...lol) and I have yet to play with the front and back pieces of the main skirt. As for the kneeling part; all I meant was that the skirt would be colliding with the floor as well as G3F. It shouldn't be a problem but as I haven't yet had a successful simulation that I could use in a finished artwork, I am still very much learning (but getting there)............! I've attached a few screencaps; I hope [only using the camera headlamp - no lighting done yet], so you can see where I'm at. I think I will need to "pose" the skirt panels so that they are above the floor, rather than sticking through it, before setting up a sim, but I can do that using the rotate for each piece (for a brand new piece of clothing for G3F, I am amazed that there are virtually no posing morphs other than moving the pieces slightly left or right -basically only standing poses. DAZ 3D should be more stringent in their vetting of content for sale - especially in a pro bundle)....

Sashes draped - time to sim the skirt.png

I don't know why, but one image was uploaded as a link; the other as the actual image but untitled ["Looking at the right sash"]

Ok I understand and I agree with you , very often clothes have minimal morphs to adjust movement but now we have VWD :-)

@marble: one last remarks. At least for me: each project is different and sometimes the same parameters of a previous project doesn't works for a new one. It depends of the clothe, what character it was made, the character, the pose, the setting, the result I want.... After a few month and some tries and errors, I have now a list of workflows to cover most of the cases I have today. Very often I found that: if it doesn't work it means that I don't use the right workflow and if I don't have the workflow, let's create a new one. That's why VWD is a "big beast" but like all dynamic simulators. Clearly not a one click solution ! Sorry you have no luck I know it's frustrating.