Question 1

.jpg "A" Wall red ,Floor blue ,has a low polycount .Is the polycount to low for Poser ?

.jpg "B" Wall red ,Floor blue. Has a higher polycount .Should I make Poser meshes like this ?

Question 2

Can you see both sides of a polygon plane in Poser ?

Is there some kind of a rule as to how Dense a polygon mesh should be in Poser ?

Image A is plenty of geometry. You could remove 2 polys in the wall and still keep the same shape. You could also reduce the frame and door to the same resolution and be fine. If you can achieve the same shape with 6 polys then there's no reason to use 12 or 60 or any more than 6.

There is no rule on poly density. Its however much your system can handle. Higher density requires more system resources.

Generally, large flat areas can be low poly. Anything with a curve such as a wheel or radius edge should have enough to look smooth. Also, any pieces where there's a change of angle should have a bevel to stop the mesh from auto smoothing or looking crumpled. Doorways, windows, wheel arches, in fact any inset section or hole should always have a bevel. Not only does it make the mesh look "tighter" it adds to the realism, since nothing in real life has a perfect right angle intersection.

I don't do a lot of modeling - my architectural models tend to be mostly for demonstration of some lighting discussion. Having said that, my experience has been that I can create minimal polygons and not even weld them and get away with it. For purposes of walls, frames, and doors, I don't even bother with the beveling because you can't see those small rounded corners unless you do a closeup.

In this setup, which I assembled to look similar to yours, none of the boxes are welded - no two polygons, whether in the same box or different boxes, are connected to any others. Since they are not welded, there is no danger of smoothing accidents, if I happen to turn on smoothing. However, this does not work too well if I enable subdivision, but really I have no reason to subdivide flat boxes, so it's not an issue.

Here's a render

At this distance, you can tell the corners have no bevel, but I wouldn't care about that as much as the fact that the materials are far too simple.

I'd spend my time on scratches, smudges, etc.

Regarding your question about seeing the back side of a polygon, the answer is yes, but seeing isn't the question. The important question is will it react to light properly. And the answer to that is entirely dependent on whether you're using FireFly vs. SuperFly and whether you have set the shader up properly to treat both sides the same or you have them set to behave differently. There's no right approach here.

For example, the back side of a single-poly flag should look and react to light just like the front side. The back side of a glass fish tank filled with water should not.

Here my box walls are set up to mimic frosted glass. We see the inner or "back" side of the boxes because the shader uses refraction and the Fresnel effect and in fact the back face renders differently than the front. It has to, because it's following the rules of physics, not the rules of 3D model tricks.

Thanks all a lot for the info .BB you went above n beyond . I forgot Poser has a Game Dev guess I should have known they could render low polycount .I lose track of time maybe in the 90's polycount was a issue for Poser. I currently have Poser Pro 14 Don't think I have superfly. I have Blenders n DAZes thou n ,No just no ,not interested in rendering a still for a week. I like real time render engines .

I'd like to make meshes useable for any thing.

So what do you think of this plan ? Make high polycount meshes in zBrush. Have Vectormaps ,Displacement maps for the engines like superfly n Normal maps for games.

So what do you think of the plan ? Does Poser or a Poser plug have decimate ?

I see nobody is answering. I hesitated because I have no experience with ZBrush, nor have I tried to actually use vector maps in Poser. I know vector maps are great, just not sure that SM did that correctly or consistently. Certainly they did not use Normal maps consistently and I discourage people from bothering with them in Poser. Whether or not your ZBrush media will plug right in to Poser is an open question.

SuperFly, at present, cannot do micropolygon displacement, even though Cycles now has that. So displacement isn't really workable for SuperFly as it only moves vertices, not faces, but it can work well in FireFly.

For modeling ; Poser does not like Ngons and long thin triangles. Geometry can be as simple as you like/please.

FireFly and SuperFly react differently to Normal Maps and SuperFly only uses Displacement at polygon level. To get the same effect in most render engines you are "limited" to Bump maps.

Thanks for reply .

Wait If Poser can't do long skinny tri's then how is there a Poser game version ? If Poser can't do long skinny tri's it can't do low polys. none of this make any since .unity n unreal nothing but tri's .I never could find a Poser Decimate guess thats why.I really want a 3D company to buy Poser.

I can make bumps ,normal etc etc so what ever that app can use.

Poser has no problem with tris. it can handle tris as good as quads. It only has a problem with L O N G and T H I N tris, just like many other 3D apps out there..

tonyvilters posted at 1:34AM Wed, 12 April 2017 - #4302263

Poser has no problem with tris. it can handle tris as good as quads. It only has a problem with L O N G and T H I N tris, just like many other 3D apps out there..

zBrush decimate makes long skinny tri's especially where it's beveled. I'll half too check blenders n C4D's decimate.

Poser Pro 14 is up to date with Service Release 10.0.5.2892 ,Right ?

Anyways I load my mesh in Poser Pro 14 and it tends to turn black .why does it turn black ?

I've looked at youtube for making content I haven't found much help.

RorrKonn posted at 1:59AM Wed, 12 April 2017 - #4302280

tonyvilters posted at 1:34AM Wed, 12 April 2017 - #4302263

Poser has no problem with tris. it can handle tris as good as quads. It only has a problem with L O N G and T H I N tris, just like many other 3D apps out there..

zBrush decimate makes long skinny tri's especially where it's beveled. I'll half too check blenders n C4D's decimate.

C4D's Decimate is just like zBrush .Blenders is kinda wild but still it makes long skinny Tri's.

they follow curves so if it's a long straight beam it goes from vertices to vertices so you get long skinny Tri's.no vertices in the middle.

RorrKonn posted at 3:38PM Wed, 12 April 2017 - #4302282

Poser Pro 14 is up to date with Service Release 10.0.5.2892 ,Right ?

Anyways I load my mesh in Poser Pro 14 and it tends to turn black .why does it turn black ?

I've looked at youtube for making content I haven't found much help.

Yes Poser Pro 14 is 10.0.5.28925.

Black mesh on loading could be flipped normals.

You can either check them in your 3d creation software ( which is preferable) or Poser can flip them when you import the model or Use the group tool to Reverse the normals

adzan posted at 10:41PM Wed, 12 April 2017 - #4302380

RorrKonn posted at 3:38PM Wed, 12 April 2017 - #4302282

Poser Pro 14 is up to date with Service Release 10.0.5.2892 ,Right ?

Anyways I load my mesh in Poser Pro 14 and it tends to turn black .why does it turn black ?

I've looked at youtube for making content I haven't found much help.

Yes Poser Pro 14 is 10.0.5.28925.

Black mesh on loading could be flipped normals.

You can either check them in your 3d creation software ( which is preferable) or Poser can flip them when you import the model or Use the group tool to Reverse the normals

Flipped normal was great guess but Posers appears in side out just like in zBrush. Poser was wanting a bump map for some unknown reason but if you disconnect all the wires in materials advance the black out ends and ya can see the mesh.

It's difficult for me to tell if polygones are flipped in Blender. but i'm not very experienced with Blender.

Thanks for the info I got Poser Pro 14 up to date .Got Blender 2.78c n DAZ 4.9.3.166 temporally kilt Pandora but we revived the tunes ,Can't CGI with out tunes ;) & zBrush 4R7. So might not accomplish any thing other then being current but at least we accomplished something :)

I got a map n texture ,just don't ask me how ,Blender ,Addons n a lot of cussing. They should not let idiots CGI ;) I swear I should have gone in to a simpler field like rocket science or something ,LOL.

tonyvilters posted at 8:54AM Sat, 15 April 2017 - #4302200

For modeling ; Poser does not like Ngons and long thin triangles. Geometry can be as simple as you like/please.

Actually for solid non morphing items, EG buildings etc, ngons used correctly are no problem at all in Poser, and can minimise polycounts when used correctly.

Good example, end of a cylinder. Ngon there, renders no problem.

Avoid for anything like humans, clothes, etc you'll morph or subdivide. There, they'll go strange.

Khai-J-Bach posted at 12:42AM Sat, 22 April 2017 - #4302657

tonyvilters posted at 8:54AM Sat, 15 April 2017 - #4302200

For modeling ; Poser does not like Ngons and long thin triangles. Geometry can be as simple as you like/please.

Actually for solid non morphing items, EG buildings etc, ngons used correctly are no problem at all in Poser, and can minimise polycounts when used correctly.

Good example, end of a cylinder. Ngon there, renders no problem.

Avoid for anything like humans, clothes, etc you'll morph or subdivide. There, they'll go strange.

Most main apps can do nGons ,Think Blender even can now. modeling wips having nGons n all,but it's considered bad topology for your final mesh to have nGons.

zBrush does not do nGons .zBrush coverts nGons to quads n tris.

ah but the bad topology part.. thats for subdividing and the like, there Ngons are bad because they are unpredictable.

for a house, are you going to sub divide it? a table? kitchen cabinets? no, you won't. your example above, SubD is never going to be required.

for solid objects , professionals will consider Ngons to lower poly counts... (heard it time and again in videos from such places as Massive Black, etc)

Khai-J-Bach posted at 7:39PM Sat, 22 April 2017 - #4303214

ah but the bad topology part.. thats for subdividing and the like, there Ngons are bad because they are unpredictable.

for a house, are you going to sub divide it? a table? kitchen cabinets? no, you won't. your example above, SubD is never going to be required.

for solid objects , professionals will consider Ngons to lower poly counts... (heard it time and again in videos from such places as Massive Black, etc)

All true but I've found that ngons sometimes look manky when rendered. If I leave them in a mesh I try to put them where they can't be seen. Then again, I'm not known for being particularly poly efficient, either.

"If I leave them in a mesh I try to put them where they can't be seen"

bingo!

Isn't Massive Black mostly 2D photoshop Artist ?

Anyways my mesh is sub dividable.

You all are free to follow any one rules you want but Max,Maya,C4D,LightWave,Modo,zBrush,BudBox,Blender any and all 3D app's say no nGons in final meshes. regardless if your going to subdivide it or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlgtLXhwJSM

massive black using Sketchup. so not just 2D

the rest. lets agree to disagree. it's a pointless arguement anyway

It's been awhile. Anyway, to answer the questions:

No, none of the polycounts are too low for Poser.

But, there's really no such thing as "too low of a polycount" as long as there's one poly. (There's "null objects", though, but that's not the point.)

What you have to think of when dealing with polycount and topology is "What do I want this model to do when rendered and how versatile does it need to be."

First off - The working scene window is rendered using OpenGL. So, when you're modeling something, you may wish to consider how it looks to the user in the OpenGl preview window. What does OpenGL care about? For one, probably the most noticeable, it cares about surface normals. But, specifically, it cares about surface normals as they are determined by "vertex winding order." Most 3D applications will show the effects of surface normals, either directly or as a toggled display option. Other issues like transparencies, shading issues with certain tightly packed vertices with not enough reference points, like "long, thin, tris" or with n-gons, both which cause issues in Firefly and, I would assume, some in Superfly, might be considered as well.

However, in your case, dealing with sharp edges and inorganic geometry, the biggest consideration is "smooth shading effects" and how topology and density effects those when the object is rendered.

So, do you intend to have "Smooth Shading" turned on for your model? Yes or no? THAT is the most important question when it comes down to modeling inorganic, sharp, edges in Poser.

If the answer is "Yes", likely due to a model that may have both sharp edges and some inorganic smooth, curvy ones, then mesh density is something of a priority, but only for specific areas. This is where the subject of "beveling" comes into play.

But, let's say you think that you can easily manipulate that using the Smooth Shading controls in the Object menu and still get away with very low polycount, without beveling, or even a minimum of beveling. OK, fine - Try it and see. One issue you may encounter with something like a single-polygon wall is that while the edges don't appear very distorted with very low smooth shading settings (like .20 or something) is that, along its length, the wall "warps" outwards a tiny bit. Why? Because the engine doesn't have enough info given to it by the vertice count to decide to keep that "flat" plane really flat when rendered.

In short: A one polygon wall, without any smooth shading effects turned on for it in the Object menu, is going to be fine if you want nothing more than a large, flat, surface. If you need to have Smooth Shading effects for it or desire that option to be available, to limit the amount of work the user has to do when pressing the "Do Art" button, then that wall will need more polys and, perhaps, it may need beveling if it is anything other than one simple plane. (Doorways, windows, physical joining with other surfaces, all will most certainly require more polys than "the minimum" to avoid smooth shading issues if Smooth Shading is turned on for the object. Even then, there are times when such features will confuse the renderer despite Smooth Shading being turned off, so properly placing more polys to give the renderer the information it needs will be in order.)

The majority of your instictive decision-making process when modeling for Poser will be guided by your practical experience. With so many variables across models that may even look very similar, you'll have to learn through experience what to do and what not to do.

"Planning" is the most important step towards solving any problems before they occur, so think out your model, first, and decide what uses you want it to be suitable for. Only then will you be able to know what the polycount needs to be in order to avoid problems. There is no hard-and-fast rule involving density or polycount that is applicable across all models.

Morkonan ,Thanks for the info.

I'm making meshes mainly for all the regular 3D app's ,There not made for CAD's n Games first but if they want them to, Cool. Think if I make them sub dividable with a good bit of topology ,I'm good across the board.

Don't know why it's been a while Morkonan but no time like the present .

Poser can use strictly convex n-gons; any concave angles will render incorrectly. So, a hexagon (Allen wrench) is OK, but a star of David (Torx wrench) will render as a hexagon with the UVs badly distorted.

I'll throw in another option for architectural modeling: you can add control edges to keep Poser smoothing from making weird shadowing. It can also be used to preserve the shape in case of subdivision.

I can't say about CAD's ,never used them. Sketchup looks fun thou.

For all the regular 3D app's if you just make ya final meshes with out any nGons your never half to worry about it .caved or vexed.

Renderosity is a lot cheaper then turosquid .So just cause you made it for Poser doesn't mean they bought it for Poser. Any of the main app's won't care if it's caved or vexed. they will consider nGons a bad thing and return your mesh n won't buy from you again. If they want a sub dividable mesh then they expect it to be 100% Quads. If it's for games Decimate makes 100% Tri's.

So all meshes should be 100% quads "sub dividable" or 100% Tri's. Not my rules these are the main app's rules.