I picked up VWD today and after watching a couple of videos set to work in Daz Studio. The basics are pretty straightforward. But I'm rather distressed by how VWD keeps erroring out on memory when I'm importing a clothing/hair item, though. As far as I can tell, my computer is using maybe 5gb of 32. I'm not importing huge objects. Is there anything I can do to improve this behavior? Otherwise the software is only of extremely limited use.

Also: When I do import a hair/clothes object I have to go through an Import Obj dialogue in Daz that isn't mentioned at all in the otherwise useful manual. I guess because the manual is unaware Daz exists? So I have no idea if that's somehow a problem or normal. I don't remember seeing it in the Daz-centric video I watched though.

I'm also regularly getting some kind of .exe exception error though I did run a simulation once semi-successfully despite that....

Hello chrysoula,

The memory problem appears when you generate many springs (About 30 million). Beyond this number, the calculation would very slow.

The rigidification by default is the rigidification by neighborhood that generates a lot of springs if the cloth (hair) has a very dense mesh on certain parts. You can use a rigidification by extension on the cloth and then rigidify locally by neighborhood to link together the dissociated parts. In Daz Studio, it is often necessary to remove the high definition which is useless for a simulation, in many cases.

You are right, the manual for Daz Studio would be very useful. In fact, I wrote the program first for Poser and the Daz Studio version came later. The manual will be enhanced.

The Import Obj dialogue appeared with Daz Studio 4.9. This problem is now resolved. Do you use the latest version of the bridge?

Could you tell me the exception error you have when you run a simulation?

I haven't seen the exception error lately (that is the last couple hours) but next time I do I'll write it down.

I'm worried by what you said: re 'too many springs'. I'm importing the Med-Rez Charity Hair on Daz; it has around 25k vertices but it triggers the memory error every time. I've also started getting an error 'VE Trench.obj' not found when I try to set up a trenchcoat (Vampire Executioner set) as the cloth over several underclothing collision pieces. Which is obviously somehow related to that specific object but I keep having the worst luck finding stuff to sim.

I will try the different rigidification on the Charity hair and other things I've encountered the memory error with.

I just purchased today so I have whatever version of the bridge is for sale. I get the Import Obj dialog twice each time I load a cloth/hair, it's a bit odd. Everything seems to work but I was confused because I hadn't seen it in the Sickleyield tutorial video from 6 months ago.

Here's one error. It showed up after I went back to my Charity hair file. I started the process, but set Charity as extension rather than neighborhood... and it gave me the No Obj Found error too! It's spreading! >.>

But it seemed to complete anyhow? The Obj Not Found error seems to come AS the Import Obj dialogs are happening so I wonder if that's a sequencing thing.

Anyhow, it seemed accessible and complete so I went to do the Hair Attachment stage but as soon as I touched the Presets, the below happened. Maybe just because it had already failed earlier. Dunno.

Another, when I get past the import and try to set the hair vertices:

Going back to putting this hair in the Does Not Work pile for now, gonna try out some other stuff.

Post rebooting everything.

A couple of things...

First, the change in seeing the OBJ export settings is a DAZ3D thing. With the new version of the software they crippled the already in place RunSilent flag (currently corrected for next release version - as Gerald stated), so that is why you are seeing it while I am not, because I am using the first iteration of DS4.9. Will DAZ do this again? Of course they will. They really don't like outside competition to their in-house solutions...

Second, I believe I found your OBJ error, and why you are getting subsequent errors; It appears that you might have the cloth item you want to simulate "parented" to your figure (from your screen-shot above - cloth nested in the figure node ?). Solution: If this is the case, then first unparent the cloth before using VWD. If it is not parented, then please disregard, and the error might be different.

And, lastly, the memory thing; You believe because you have 32 Gigs of RAM, that VWD should be using it, but VWD is only a 32 bit program, so it can only use 4 Gigs max. Your CPU cores are more important at this stage...

Hello,

I made a tests with the Med-Rez Charity Hair and all seems to work well. I will send you the settings I used.

I saw that you used Boho dress, what is the issue you have with this clothe?

It is important to remember VWD gives many functions to be able to make simulations with complex clothes. For now, I don't find a way to simplify the process. You have to look at the mesh you want to simulate and try to find the best parameters for the simulation. I hope I will be able to make presets or to write a method which would help to find these settings. But I am not sure to manage this.

I used several simulation softwares for tens of year and creating a program that can simulate easily is a dream that many persons try to program, even in great companies.

I suggest you to make tests on very simple clothes and hair to understand perfectly the functioning of each parameter of the program.

I hope these first tests will not discourage you because I am sure VWD will help you to simulate all the clothes and hair you want.

Have a great day.

 Gérald

@chrysoula : Boho dress is a multi-layer dress. This dress is not easy to simulate for a first test. This dress can be simulated by using several methods.

You can see the 3 tutorials showing the 3 methods on Hinata dress on YouTube. The third method is, for me, the best one but it asks some preparations. Here the link on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN_YzfAHUfY Sorry for my bad English :-(

DaremoK3 posted at 11:00AM Sun, 23 July 2017 - #4310524

First, the change in seeing the OBJ export settings is a DAZ3D thing. With the new version of the software they crippled the already in place RunSilent flag (currently corrected for next release version - as Gerald stated), so that is why you are seeing it while I am not, because I am using the first iteration of DS4.9. Will DAZ do this again? Of course they will. They really don't like outside competition to their in-house solutions...

Second, I believe I found your OBJ error, and why you are getting subsequent errors; It appears that you might have the cloth item you want to simulate "parented" to your figure (from your screen-shot above - cloth nested in the figure node ?). Solution: If this is the case, then first unparent the cloth before using VWD. If it is not parented, then please disregard, and the error might be different.

And, lastly, the memory thing; You believe because you have 32 Gigs of RAM, that VWD should be using it, but VWD is only a 32 bit program, so it can only use 4 Gigs max. Your CPU >cores are more important at this stage...

Thanks for the explanation of the OBJ import thing. It's mostly an inconvenience because I can't relaunch a simulation setup and walk away while it does its thing; I have to hover and wait to accept the defaults. I do hope it IS fixed later....

I keep thinking I've found a way to work around the No Obj Found error. First I got around it by importing the cloth item in between the two collision items. Worked a couple times. Then I did it by just not including the second collision item. Both still ended up with the hated error eventually. But I'll try the parenting thing and see if that works consistently!

As for the memory thing, I was misled elsewhere, by installing a 64 bit bridge file, and by SY mentioning that even her 64-gig system seemed to fail on large hairs and dresses. My cores are... probably pretty good. (The whole machine is reasonably new.)

I gave up on the Boho dress when it fell apart at the waistband, the bottom part falling off (even though I'd nailed the waistband to the collision).

I've had a couple of successes. I finally managed to get the dynamic simulation to work. But I couldn't get the Gothic Lolita dress I originally wanted to use it on to load despite tweaks to the process. Frills? Folds? Raw poly count? No idea. I'm not stuck on it.

I do feel like telling me to just 'make tests on very simple clothes and hair' is pretty unfair. I spent 10 hours yesterday trying to do just that, but just identifying what qualifies as a 'simple' garment or hairpiece is time-consuming, especially when so many error messages appear to interfere with understanding how the rigidity/stretch/softness stuff works. 'Simple' is surprisingly ephemeral, especially when I'm limited to the contents of my library.

(Sidestory: I had a hilarious scene last night where I tried to experiment with letting a short male haircut drape reasonably and it slid mostly right off his head into a tangle of locks six times as long as the original hair, right in front of his face. The sort of thing I'd like to experiment and study more, but it does take some fortitude to head back to the software knowing that 4 out of 5 attempts to accomplish something (even in the name of pure self-education) is going to result in the software giving up on me.)

Lots of people love the software and it's their enthusiasm that sold it to me. I really HOPE to join their ranks at some point. I am possibly more demanding than some; I've noticed from gallery studies and testing that my fondness for extreme poses (sitting hugging knees, for example) is definitely more demanding of the software than a simple standing pose with a more realistic drape.

But, seriously, if the best advice is to do lots of testing it would be extremely helpful if appropriately simple models were provided (or exclusively freebies were identified and used in the manual). There's a detailed walkthrough of setting up several pieces of clothing and hair in the new manual but as has been indicated elsewhere, the setup for each garment/hairpiece is so individualized that the detailed walkthrough is not useful for any random other model.

Although honestly it feels like perhaps the best 'testing' model would be something like a simple ribbon, curled, so that one could experiment with different rigidities and stuff to really get an intuitive understanding of how they work? Maybe with subdivided versions and morphs to adjust the curl before importing into VWD?

I still don't really understand about how to stiffen up rigidity locally after importing using the '...by extension' rather than 'by neighborhood' option. I do think the calculator memory function is brilliant but I've been using Scale mostly by stabbing wildly in the dark and it's been hard for me to observe differences in using the Rigidify option especially since, as far as I understand it, I have to relaunch the script and simulation to implement any changes (so it's hard to easily compare/contrast. especially when second and third attempts bring up dreaded No Obj Found errors). I guess I can make one morph-model, rename it, relaunch and re-simulate on another morph-model...?

Hello chrysoula,

You make a lot of tests and this is the right solution.

I don't understand why you have 4 errors for 5 tests. I suppose there is something you do wrong.

I am happy that you want to realize complex images and animations with VWD.

If you accept, you can tell me the clothes and the hair on which you want to work. You can also show me a pose or an animation you would like to see realized in Daz Studio. In the Gallery, you will see that some persons made complex scenes too.

For me, the best way is to finalize only 2 or 3 scenes and I can help you for this.

Have a great day.

Gérald

Hi, Gerald. I'll let you know when I'm having specific problems. Thanks for the invitation. Meanwhile I did get the piece I wanted to do done. I had to use a different skirt (and it's honestly barely visible anyhow and there's lots of weird pokethrough on the far side but hey camera angles) but the hair did come out nice. I'll post it somewhere soon.

@DaremoK3 : If I understand correctly what you say, Daz regenerated the OBJ import issue on the latest version?

No. It was the latest release of DS from last month that triggered the issue for everyone, and you guys started getting complaints. You, and Philemo stated it's been addressed and corrected. Although, from chrysoula's statements above, it seems the corrected version of the bridge has not made it to Rendo's downloads yet.

I'm still using a DS4.9 version two iterations back, so I haven't encountered the OBJ export dialog issue.

DaremoK3 posted at 12:47PM Mon, 31 July 2017 - #4310758

No. It was the latest release of DS from last month that triggered the issue for everyone, and you guys started getting complaints. You, and Philemo stated it's been addressed and corrected. Although, from chrysoula's statements above, it seems the corrected version of the bridge has not made it to Rendo's downloads yet.

I'm still using a DS4.9 version two iterations back, so I haven't encountered the OBJ export dialog issue.

I'm back from Holidays. Regression tests are OK now and it's on the way.

" And, lastly, the memory thing; You believe because you have 32 Gigs of RAM, that VWD should be using it, but VWD is only a 32 bit program, so it can only use 4 Gigs max. Your CPU cores are more important at this stage..."

I hope that this will be something that is addressed soon and re-written for 64bit. Hell, I'd even pay for new version. Gen 8 and all the new accessories will make this program useless until it can use the system's full memory.

jmelvin64 posted at 9:48AM Wed, 02 August 2017 - #4311175

" And, lastly, the memory thing; You believe because you have 32 Gigs of RAM, that VWD should be using it, but VWD is only a 32 bit program, so it can only use 4 Gigs max. Your CPU cores are more important at this stage..."

I hope that this will be something that is addressed soon and re-written for 64bit. Hell, I'd even pay for new version. Gen 8 and all the new accessories will make this program useless until it can use the system's full memory.

I think you've missed Daremok3 point. VWD memory footprint is very low and it's not part at all of the bottleneck. Computing power is and CPU (and I hope soon GPU) is. Furthermore, when it'll come to GPU, most graphic cards are lower in memory than the host computer and that very same low memory footprint will then be an asset.

philemot posted at 11:32PM Wed, 02 August 2017 - #4311194

jmelvin64 posted at 9:48AM Wed, 02 August 2017 - #4311175

" And, lastly, the memory thing; You believe because you have 32 Gigs of RAM, that VWD should be using it, but VWD is only a 32 bit program, so it can only use 4 Gigs max. Your CPU cores are more important at this stage..."

I hope that this will be something that is addressed soon and re-written for 64bit. Hell, I'd even pay for new version. Gen 8 and all the new accessories will make this program useless until it can use the system's full memory.

I think you've missed Daremok3 point. VWD memory footprint is very low and it's not part at all of the bottleneck. Computing power is and CPU (and I hope soon GPU) is. Furthermore, when it'll come to GPU, most graphic cards are lower in memory than the host computer and that very same low memory footprint will then be an asset.

So you mean when it gives the "out of memory" message it's because it when past what the CPU and GPU can handle?

Still, something needs to be done because it can't handle ANY of the new hair products on the market without using decimator.

What I meant exactly is that, when you overrun memory limitation, the number of springs involved is so huge that it's becoming impractical with the current CPU power and switching to GPU to increase that computation power will not remove this memory limitation. I agree something needs to be done, but it has more to do with limiting the number of springs generated. Using a decimator is one solution. VWD aldready has an optimization algorithm in place. Maybe finding the right parameters may also help.

Got it. BTW Thank you so much for the Bridge update!

Hello, I come back from GPU immersion. I can say you that "RealTime" don't mean "RealLife".

I want to bring some explanations about the memory limitations.

When I started to write the program, I wanted to make a 64 bits program, working on Windows and on Mac. My enthusiasm was quickly revised downward. The library I used for the visualization cannot be converted on 64 bits and don't work on Mac even if it works on Linux. (I don't understand why).

At the beginning, the issue annoyed me and I began to find methods to resolve the problems linked to clothes or hair having many vertices. All these functions are now written and I think they work fine.

Now, after reflection, I am happy this problem happened because, currently, the program is able to simulate all the clothes and hair sold on the market places now and in the future. The only limitation is your mind.

I know the program has to be improved and one of these improvement will certainly to rewrite it in 64 bits and make it compatible with Mac computers. For me, the modification is not a priority.

As says Philippe, the GPU version should run on all kind of graphic cards and many of these cards have only some GBytes of memory. Recognize that it's hard for me to say that a buyer has to buy a $ 1000 graphics card to be able to use comfortably my $ 40 program.

To summarize, I just want to say that, after the GPU conversion, my next development will be on the springs generation in two ways :

• find the best spring distribution, perhaps by writing a specific decimator.
• be able to define cloth presets, perhaps using the decimator.

As I already said before, if you have some issues on a cloth or a hair, tell me the name of the product and I will make some tests directly if I bought this product or on an equivalent product if I never bought it.

I hope these explanations will help you to understand the VWD development.

Have a great day.

  Gérald

It could (for the sake of argument) use more RAM, but as said, why would you want such a slow simulation? I've had simulations over 35.000,000 springs; it's slow! Glacially slow due to the sheer number of calculations. Some work and experience allow us to reduce the springs. The easier method, can be to use the decimator (in Daz's Studio), but I prefer others; I am, however, more likely to use the decimator for hair, but again would rather not.

The time to think about RAM, is not once it's loaded into VWD, but prior to that.

If it's a complicated garment, or is a dense mesh (check and think about these things before starting the transfer), think of ways of reducing the spring-count.

Simple checks that can be done (and definitely should be) are: Is sub d turned off? Generally turn off - it is a rare garment that requires more geometry; it does happen. I've not yet had a hair that required sub D, and forgetting it for hair tends to make it either run out or RAM or have me stop it as too slow and start again.

• Get used to looking at the mesh in Wireframe / WireTextured modes.

Also, making sections invisible (not via cutout opacity) and doing in sections can work, if the various sections play nice; I avoid, but it can work.

There are three, not two, methods of importing cloth and hair: by extension; by vertex neighbourhood; and by using neither; technically there is a fourth, but you would never want to do that (use both).

Use neither then customise different parts can also work and seems to save springs; perhaps Gerald could confirm, but it does appear to help on occasions.