Rhia474 posted at 7:01PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371698

It's not the quality of the art, for goodness' sake, of course its not. It's the message it conveys.

The problem with that mentality is that art is a subjective form of communication. It means something different to whomever looks at it. In other words, it means something different to different people.

Ah, I disagree. Skimpy-dressed pinup lit chick is a genre. I do pinups myself. Hells, I did an entire calendar of pinups once for our game server. But it would be the new version of Poser advertised as a pinup art tool by putting that lovely image on the box.

I think that's what we are trying to say.

Rhia474 posted at 7:51PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371718

Ah, I disagree. Skimpy-dressed pinup lit chick is a genre. I do pinups myself. Hells, I did an entire calendar of pinups once for our game server. But it would be the new version of Poser advertised as a pinup art tool by putting that lovely image on the box.

I think that's what we are trying to say.

Now, it's my turn to disagree. Yes, pinup is a genre, but so is calendar art like cowboys, and firefighters. I happen to admire cowboys and firefighters, but don't want to see one trying to be sexy on my calendar every morning. Now true, Poser can be used for a number of purposes, like courtroom scenes, dragons, checkout lanes at supermarkets, etc. Which one of those tells you how Poser should be advertised?

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 8:11PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371711

quietrob posted at 8:48PM Fri, 29 November 2019 - #4371709

Ohki, Your chick holding a sword in front of the Temple should now be accompanied by a chick selling a rock.

(Oh come on, gif, animate! Meh, here: https://media.giphy.com/media/65ODCwM00NVmEyLsX3/giphy.gif )

Too often I do that while sitting here at the laptop. Makes a mess of my monitor, and sometimes the keyboard.

I think the cover should showcase what Poser can do within the software. If the current owners feel the best market for the next iteration of Poser is the pinup market with lots of skin and diaphanous veils, it is their software now. If they feel this is to also oppose how the Other Software is positioned, that is a valid marketing strategy. I personally feel it would be a mistake to narrow the audience as such, but I am only one person. We will agree to disagree here, I am afraid.

That's the thing, isn't it? People are going to use Poser for what they want. I initially got into Poser when I was trying to storyboard a screenplay I was writing. I couldn't draw, still not that good at it, but I thought if I could storyboard the screenplay, I'd sell it easier. Never did work out that way. I ended up using it t create stills. Moved from there to comics and so on. But any artwork you put on the cover is only going to showcase one possible way Poser can be used.

I'm not too crazy about software that needs an active internet connection, nor am I a fan of content installers that decide for me where to put my purchases. (I rarely install my stuff where the creators think it should go, and most of it I install in an external runtime on an external hard drive.

Hope Poser is not going overly much in that direction.

Wizards to help you with some of the functionality would be nice, though; that's a good idea.

They've already said the installers were primarily for newbies and casual users.

If it works like the other camp's installer, it should be fine. You should be able to determine where you want the content installed and still have the option of downloading the zip and installing it manually. Remember that automation is a good thing. If you purchase say, five or six items, and have the installer set up correctly, you can sit back and let it do all the work. Great for multitasking. Let's see it in action before we condemn it.

Not a bad idea, Rob. Since it's supposed to be included in the next version of Poser anyway, why not pre-release it and get feedback from users on how it works or how it can be improved.

quietrob posted at 2:59PM Sat, 30 November 2019 - #4371793

If it works like the other camp's installer, it should be fine. You should be able to determine where you want the content installed and still have the option of downloading the zip and installing it manually.

That's exactly how I used it, as I prefer to install files where I want them, other than those that MUST be placed in the folders they are in within the zip. It's exactly how I install products to Poser as well.

In another thread, Jenn Blake just delivered the bad news. Going forward, apparently, Bondware has opted to keep the "phone home" licensing. I still love Poser and have several older versions I'll continue to use, but this bit of news could be a game changer for me.

EClark1894 posted at 12:20AM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4371967

In another thread, Jenn Blake just delivered the bad news. Going forward, apparently, Bondware has opted to keep the "phone home" licensing. I still love Poser and have several older versions I'll continue to use, but this bit of news could be a game changer for me.

Thank you.

Any idea which thread that was? I would like to read the official version - and the why ...

Kerya I think EClark is referring to the recently locked thread about using 11.2 offline. I know this is going to sound like a rant but that thread got fairly ugly - its worth considering "phone home" is a form of DRM. DRM is widespread in music, film and software. Bondware did not invent it, nor did they add it to Poser. It's been in Poser for 4/5 years but because SM turned off their licensing servers its become an issue now.

ironsoul posted at 1:29AM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4371974

Kerya I think EClark is referring to the recently locked thread about using 11.2 offline. I know this is going to sound like a rant but that thread got fairly ugly - its worth considering "phone home" is a form of DRM. DRM is widespread in music, film and software. Bondware did not invent it, nor did they add it to Poser. It's been in Poser for 4/5 years but because SM turned off their licensing servers its become an issue now.

Thank you.

Found the post: @4371937

Bye, bye future Poser versions.

As for the DRM: it was an issue for me since GameDev - the reason why I didn't buy the upgrade from PP2014 (and I do have P5, P7, P8, PP2012 and PP2014 - so I DO like Poser).

Bye bye future Poser for me as well.

Guess I'll learn Blender now.

!!Statement Release !! for information's sake...we didn't START The Poser software calling home. That has been in place since Poser Pro 2014. And we intend to continue it. There is a path to extend the time allowed before the software is required to phone home again. But otherwise this is what it is and will not be changing.

It was to be expected and I think that most Knew already " Sometimes we just want to hear the facts "

I support Poser allot even if it is with "Fan Art" I do my best to get Impressive models for Poser and since I do it I even give more then half out for free for a Period of time! This situation is making me feel really baad " Not because I fear that they could shut my SM Poser down as this will not happen " I feel baad for the customers that invest as much as they can by buying models for Poser and have to fear that one day it will say " Game Over " they will loose it all not only Poser but also there whole collections.

especially now that La Femme and future models will not be supported downwards. so for those they better make sure that they invest in products that are downwards compatible or at least with DS . In case of another shut down like the one with Smith Micro " Trust your Instinct " and not in what they tell you to make a Profit.

on my side I feel bad as the models I release are very neat it also makes Publicity For poser , it helps them gain customers for something I do not agree at all. How will I feel if one day my customers will not be able to use what I offered to them because of the Poser owners ?

I know of allot of People that save up for a model as they have not much for a living ! some do not even have a Internet connection at home they go to a Internet Cafe. some can not really afford having a stable internet connection " Even I am not in Possession of a home Internet I use my mobile phone to access it " if I need a better line I have to go to the restaurant !!!

Getting to the Point is ... this system make Sportring costumers depend on that call home feature " Not the Pirates as these do not care " they make sure that there collections can not be Locked by any other instance. If it goes down like it did with SM then the costumers will suffer . And believe me they already search for a Possibility to ensure that there older 11.1 Poser versions can remain activated " It is like the farmer that will take out hes shotgun to protect hes Property " as these for sure do not even want to risc loosing there entire runtimes build in the ast decades. These even invested in expensive Backup drives to Prevent any loss. so how far do you think a collector will go to protect he's stuff ???

Bondware !! what you do is just totally wrong ! towards the Creators and Towards the customers , and now I have to feel baad for every Item I sell towards my customers as I have to tell them that they depend on that Call home Kill Switch using there models in the next decades.

Poser alone is not worth anything if you do not have the Creators for it, if you do not have these to support it , if you loose the ones who teach others how to use it and these who will tell others how great it is . as there will not remain many that will be able to do so with a good conscience

ironsoul posted at 6:20AM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4371974

Kerya I think EClark is referring to the recently locked thread about using 11.2 offline. I know this is going to sound like a rant but that thread got fairly ugly - its worth considering "phone home" is a form of DRM. DRM is widespread in music, film and software. Bondware did not invent it, nor did they add it to Poser. It's been in Poser for 4/5 years but because SM turned off their licensing servers its become an issue now.

It's BEEN an issue since they first introduced it with GAME DEV. I didn't upgrade to Game Dev, I kept 2014, so it didn't affect me. It wasn't a selling point in Poser 11, when I bought it, so I didn't know about it until well after.

I don't like the phone home feature. It's not something I've run into before. I have run into software where they take the license server offline for older versions, which forces you to upgrade if you want to install the software on a new computer, which I find pretty infuriating. But to actually have a working version stop working is not common, unless it's a subscription plan.

I suspect DRM is really the least of it. They did leave the door open to going to a subscription model in the future, like Adobe and Vue have. Obviously, phoning home would be necessary in that case. And closer to home...it sounds like they're trying integrate the RMP into Poser, with the ability to shop, buy, and install items from inside the program. An active Internet connection would be key to that plan.

@ Bondware

Did you know the best method to prevent Theft or Piracy of Private Property ! In your case Poser :

It would be in this case 1: Make sure that none has interest in it 2: If none has Interest in it it will not be stolen 3: you are on the best way to reach this target. By any means who would invest in something from 3rd Party if you can just shut it all down ? " Do not bring the excuse Others did so we also do " as it is your decision to Running it that way.

If you buy a Car and there is no one that Provides energy to run it , how useful will it then be ? in short terms where there is nothing to steal there will nothing be stolen! so your strategy with the Phone home is a little out of Place for this form of Product.

this strategy will most likely end up that in a way that Creators and customers will turn the back on or only take it if there is a cure for this disease. you should also update the rules that you not only rent the access to Poser but also to all the 3rd Party 3d stuff provided that you do not really own as you have full control over it by now.

To be honest, I'm kind of amazed that they made that announcement and so far out. I'd really like to hear their justification for it. Also wonder if they might consider putting out two versions? As long as it not too expensive, I probably wouldn't mind paying a small premium for a perpetual license. In the long run, it'd be cheaper than having to pay for a continuous internet connection. And not everyone has one or can afford one.

I'm guessing it is a corporate decision, that's the way Bondware licences their software, so poser is treated the same way, but I 'm only guessing as I have no experience of other Bondware software.

I believe it was important for Jenn to come out clearly as an attempt to stop threads like this in which some people seem almost intent on persuading others not to buy poser or content by stoking fears about poser stoping working in the future. I don't believe that is their intention but they should really consider what impression they are giving to potential poser users. And it's no excuse to say that it's Bondware's fault, we can all only be responsible for our own actions.

If you are poor and qualifiy for food stamps or receive SSI/SSD you can get a free android smart phone with 2 gigs of data from Assurance wireless or safelink.

They require you to go online at least once a month to keep the service active anyway so you could go that route for a monthly phone home for poser..

I am Daz a content clothing developer ( Not a Daz PA but for internal use in animated filmaking)

Those who might want to try to sell in the poser market would wonder if people not being able to afford internet service could afford to buy their content anyways.

That said... I still run Adobe CS 3( including After Effects) on my old intel Mac. I was delighted to discover that My 15 year old Old $2000 USD Endorphin ragdoll physics software runs on my new windows 10 PC.

Some companies ,like Autodesk ,can get away with forced upgrades,calling home and deactivation of older versions because their user base are professional companies with steady revenues AND they offer feature sets that these people really want/need.

Bondware /Poser is NOT in such a position and does so at their own peril.

Wolf, I actually agree with you unnerving as it is for me :)

Gate, learn to take a hint.

They locked the other thread because of the ugly rants and accusations you insisted on tossing there... and now you're bringing them here. They're already being gracious enough to allow you to speak here at all - most people don't accept when somebody goes into their house to try to badmouth them and try to get everyone to be against them.

For crying out loud, just take a chill pill and stop.

Actually, I did not see this before, so I wonder how it will work, but the Newsletter said they are bringing the DVD back so people will have a physical copy. I seem to remember having some writing software, ironically, the same software as when and why I bought my first Poser, and I needed to insert the DVD in order to get it to work if I was not connected to the internet.

I could live with that, and for someone like Rokket, who's on a ship, and away from port a lot, it'd be great.

Oh, man, I remember CD-check. It was a DRM scheme back in the '90s, that required you to have the CD in your drive in order for the software to run. I recently re-installed a game called Elite Force, that used CD-check. CD-check no longer works on modern computers, but Activision has apparently given permission to crack the game and distribute it, as long as you don't try to charge money for it.

For me, it's not the cost of Internet access, it's that I don't always have it, and this may be even more true in the future. I travel a lot, including to places that don't have ready Internet access. And I'm reaching retirement age, when I hope to travel even more, and live full time in an RV, where I expect to spend a lot of time in places with no cell service. I suppose I could buy a satellite dish, but doing that just for Poser seems a bit much.

The DVD check would be a good substitute for those who cannot maintain a continuous internet connection (it's really no one';s business why they can't), actually. Yup, I remember those times too, with multiple software and games. 'Crud, I watched a movie last night and I forgot to reinsert the game CD'...

randym77 posted at 10:57AM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372025

Oh, man, I remember CD-check. It was a DRM scheme back in the '90s, that required you to have the CD in your drive in order for the software to run. I recently re-installed a game called Elite Force, that used CD-check. CD-check no longer works on modern computers, but Activision has apparently given permission to crack the game and distribute it, as long as you don't try to charge money for it.

For me, it's not the cost of Internet access, it's that I don't always have it, and this may be even more true in the future. I travel a lot, including to places that don't have ready Internet access. And I'm reaching retirement age, when I hope to travel even more, and live full time in an RV, where I expect to spend a lot of time in places with no cell service. I suppose I could buy a satellite dish, but doing that just for Poser seems a bit much.

Why would you do that ? haven't you seen :The hills have eyes ? huh?

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:12PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372018

Gate, learn to take a hint.

They locked the other thread because of the ugly rants and accusations you insisted on tossing there... and now you're bringing them here. They're already being gracious enough to allow you to speak here at all - most people don't accept when somebody goes into their house to try to badmouth them and try to get everyone to be against them.

For crying out loud, just take a chill pill and stop.

Oh I can take it I have a hard skin I knew the answer just wanted to hear it , the question is can you handle the truth. Sometimes it takes a little to find out what is behind a plan rather then just to make a guess about it. they might also have a reason why they let me talk in here as there is always a reason why something happens , don't you think ?

but this is just a drop on a Hot stone about the whole truth as strategic Plans are very complex when it comes to business and if there are fiances involved there is no space for love nor compassion. Pay or you are out ---->> Door They work in long terms not just on the length of your Nose !

And I have no hard feelings about the closed thread this happens when trolls come in to make out of a good discussion there little war , guess it is based on there own frustrations nothing else

wolf359 posted at 12:53PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372015

... I still run Adobe CS 3( including After Effects) on my old intel Mac. I was delighted to discover that My 15 year old Old $2000 USD Endorphin ragdoll physics software runs on my new windows 10 PC.

Some companies ,like Autodesk ,can get away with forced upgrades,calling home and deactivation of older versions because their user base are professional companies with steady revenues AND they offer feature sets that these people really want/need.

Bondware /Poser is NOT in such a position and does so at their own peril.

I Do-Not-Like the idea of software shutting down and I very much agree with the "Bondware is not Autodesk" comparison above by wolf359. Charging for the software is ok. Copy protection in the form of registering it like Nero does is pretty much ok (I’ve had some problems when I upgraded disk sizes and changed memory configurations). But having the software phone in or go dark is NOT ok, at least for me.

I felt that a lot of that other thread (https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938693) was a mostly well spoken and informative discussion and am sorry that one or two writers got emotionally combative at the very end, the last half of page 3 or so. Before that it was interesting.

I am not rich, but I am not poor and I operate offline because in the past I've been hacked and had conflicts due to virus support software that caused crashes and have had to rebuild hard drives and load software and serial numbers, losing one or two programs along the way. It happened more than once and I vowed ‘never again!’ with my more expensive stuff.

I don’t care so much about my laptop and tablet because I don’t run much proprietary there other than Office.

So, my one wish is for 11.3 NOT to phone home or expire, and that the honest and definitive statement ‘it is what it is and will not be changing’ regarding that aspect at the end of the other thread is actually malleable at the higher levels of Bondware leadership.

If you read the Statements about Internet activation in Poser from Smith micro you would see that there is much more behind all this. They left officially the option that you choose your self if they can get information about your Habits and Hard software you use. I believe that this option has already been removed from Bondware as Poser needs to be connected. also there is no Offline activation as an option.The store gets integrated into the software.

Collecting Private information has to be stated clearly in the Info once you buy the software I recall that allot of Information Bondware is giving are miss leading and are very unprofessional. Actually you do not really get any Information like a Professional serious software distributor gives out . One Page will tell you that you can activate Offline the other say's you need Internet so how could the customer know.

" we will be collecting anonymous data help our team identify features in Poser that are frequently used. It also will give us a very basic snapshot of the hardware you are running on. That data will also tell us about crashes to help us improve Poser’s reliability."

"Each license you’ve purchased can be activated a maximum of 3 unique times. You can manually deactivate the license on one system to transfer it to a new system without using up one of your 3 activations. If you need to reactivate beyond 3 unique times for hardware related reasons, contact our tech support team for their assistance."

If you need such Information like mentioned above can anyone tell me where to find them at Renderosity that would be clear when purchasing the software? the other thing is Did Smith Micro hand out these information to Bondware when they made the Trans-fair !?

The other Issue is that actually it is not in any concern for Bondware as we found that it is stated that Smith micro can not just deactivate sold Licences and sell these to another one they guarantee the activation of Poser 11.1 and Game Dew the only reason for the call home is to Prevent Piracy and not intended to shut down a sold Poser Version. But well as we can see it happen and this has been abused by sending the notification that you have to update to bond-ware else Poser will stopp working.

The next question is ... wo did send this Notification ? Was it Bondware or was it Smith Micro ? It was Bondware ! Smith micro knew if they would send out this notification that they could get into Trouble breaking there contracts. so they left it u to Bondware just in case that it would cause issues in the near future.

Now I guess I have said what I wanted and stated my concerns , expressing my frustrations getting hit by a knife from behind, having a own community that I should give my attention rather then to spend my time in here " A Loss of time with no results " The concerned hide in there little castles smoking there cigars

I will not be Updating from 11.1 to any future Poser as long as this Call Home Kill Switch will be active.... If it is within my Power I will support the ones who use the older Poser versions for the time being assisting them with there versions.

gate posted at 3:38PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372054

If you read the Statements about Internet activation in Poser from Smith micro you would see that there is much more behind all this. They left officially the option that you choose your self if they can get information about your Habits and Hard software you use. I believe that this option has already been removed from Bondware as Poser needs to be connected. also there is no Offline activation as an option.The store gets integrated into the software.

Collecting Private information has to be stated clearly in the Info once you buy the software I recall that allot of Information Bondware is giving are miss leading and are very unprofessional. Actually you do not really get any Information like a Professional serious software distributor gives out . One Page will tell you that you can activate Offline the other say's you need Internet so how could the customer know.

" we will be collecting anonymous data help our team identify features in Poser that are frequently used. It also will give us a very basic snapshot of the hardware you are running on. That data will also tell us about crashes to help us improve Poser’s reliability."

WHAT?????????

The other Issue is that actually it is not in any concern for Bondware as we found that it is stated that Smith micro can not just deactivate sold Licences and sell these to another one they guarantee the activation of Poser 11.1 and Game Dew the only reason for the call home is to Prevent Piracy and not intended to shut down a sold Poser Version. But well as we can see it happen and this has been abused by sending the notification that you have to update to bond-ware else Poser will stopp working.

For the nth time. The reason that you have to update from 11.1 to 11.2 is because SMITH MICRO SHUT DOWN THEIR LICENSING SERVER FOR POSER. Smith Micro is the company that initiated the "phone home" feature in Poser. Not Renderosity. The licensing server used by Poser 11 and 11.1 is OWNED by Smith Micro and cannot be transferred over to Renderosity because there are other software products that Smith Micro still owns that use that licensing server. The ONLY option that Renderosity had was to provide an update that would allow Poser 11.2 to continue working under their ownership. Which meant changing the activation method so that it didn't involve the Smith Micro licensing server.

Deecey posted at 3:58PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372066

The other Issue is that actually it is not in any concern for Bondware as we found that it is stated that Smith micro can not just deactivate sold Licences and sell these to another one they guarantee the activation of Poser 11.1 and Game Dew the only reason for the call home is to Prevent Piracy and not intended to shut down a sold Poser Version. But well as we can see it happen and this has been abused by sending the notification that you have to update to bond-ware else Poser will stopp working.

For the nth time. The reason that you have to update from 11.1 to 11.2 is because SMITH MICRO SHUT DOWN THEIR LICENSING SERVER FOR POSER. Smith Micro is the company that initiated the "phone home" feature in Poser. Not Renderosity. The licensing server used by Poser 11 and 11.1 is OWNED by Smith Micro and cannot be transferred over to Renderosity because there are other software products that Smith Micro still owns that use that licensing server. The ONLY option that Renderosity had was to provide an update that would allow Poser 11.2 to continue working under their ownership. Which meant changing the activation method so that it didn't involve the Smith Micro licensing server.

Deecey, that may be true but Bondware had the option of eliminating the phone home and they did not. They're using it for personal data collection and probably reselling the data, like every other data broker.

You know, I used to be so happy when opening Poser and now I'm just depressed.

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this? Your data is used the minute you connect, the minute you buy something anywhere. This is the 21st century. Please be glad you don't live in countries where your data is used to control what you have access to, whom you can meet, where you can travel or what you eat.

Why should creating art with the same software is suddenly so depressing as opposed to say, last month or last year? I am assuming people who post here bought at least once something from this site--why is it suddenly so bad? Why do we believe everything posted by people hiding behind Internet anonymity without citing actual pages/ sources etc.

What's going on??

Also: they could have eliminated the phone home, but that would not change the having to update. As 11.1 had the phone home to SM. So even if to remove it - an update would be necessary.

And I wonder if we'll still be ruminating these same points into next year. As Rhia said, nearly every digital company these days collects your data. It's at a point where we should complain IF they do something bad with said data. Again, I understand the complaint of not being able to work offline, but all these other complaints seem... kinda overreacting over a thing that most people accept from other companies.

And you know-- they're welcome to all my habits of cat browsing, 3d content selection and recipe searches. I mean, really, what the hell do I have to hide? They can't make me to buy stuff, I decide that.

Rhia474 posted at 5:22PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372071

And you know-- they're welcome to all my habits of cat browsing, 3d content selection and recipe searches. I mean, really, what the hell do I have to hide? They can't make me to buy stuff, I decide that.

Where are all the complaints about Windows 10? Not only do they collect everything they want off your computer WITHOUT your permission, THEY decide what goes on your computer, where and when.

But, somehow, Bondware/Renderosity are the enemy. As they type those exact words on an Windows10 computer!

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha, talk about getting on the wrong horse and then beating it to death!

Rhia474 posted at 4:26PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372069

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this?

Maybe because Microsoft stated up front that they were collecting data, and actually I think they ask permission, in fact I know they do because I get periodic pop ups requesting permission for this or that data to go to Microsoft but I'm using Windows 7 and will continue to do so.

If they had eliminated the phone home they'd have become heroes to all. Now they're just playing us for fools with this phone home. I researched Bondware - they supply communications (newspapers etc) software and brag about being able to supply lock outs for non paying subscribers. Well and good, but don't then pretend they don't have the ability to eliminate the phone home if they want to. It's the deceptions that rub.

You have no idea what they're doing with your data so how can you be so naive as to say we should complain if they do something bad, I can't believe that one.

I'm incredibly happy you have nothing to hide but the issue is our right to privacy.

... Yet somehow a phone-home makes you think they're surely collecting data. When, for all we know, it's just checking if your copy of their software is legit.

But hey, I guess some people would rather have someone tell them "I'm gonna punch your face now!" and get punched than have someone lightly tap their shoulder without a warning.

Yep, I am naive because I already know they are using my data. nodnods If they sell my data and I get robo calls, I don't pick them up. If they sell my data and I get unsolicited emails from companies I don't do business with, I delete them.

No one will force me to do anything I don't want to do. Least of all, to get myself worked up over an issue I don't see as an issue when the software is working, I have content to create with and art in my brain to create from.

Now if they stop having content for Poser, stop marketing Poser, terminate the agreement with Hivewire, or something of that nature--I will scream, long and loud.

Until then, I am gladly called naive. It's a free country,

Rhia474 posted at 7:52PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372078

Yep, I am naive because I already know they are using my data. nodnods If they sell my data and I get robo calls, I don't pick them up. If they sell my data and I get unsolicited emails from companies I don't do business with, I delete them.

No one will force me to do anything I don't want to do. Least of all, to get myself worked up over an issue I don't see as an issue when the software is working, I have content to create with and art in my brain to create from.

Now if they stop having content for Poser, stop marketing Poser, terminate the agreement with Hivewire, or something of that nature--I will scream, long and loud.

Until then, I am gladly called naive. It's a free country,

+1

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 5:00PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372076

... Yet somehow a phone-home makes you think they're surely collecting data. When, for all we know, it's just checking if your copy of their software is legit.

But hey, I guess some people would rather have someone tell them "I'm gonna punch your face now!" and get punched than have someone lightly tap their shoulder without a warning.

Did you miss this part: " we will be collecting anonymous data help our team identify features in Poser that are frequently used. It also will give us a very basic snapshot of the hardware you are running on. That data will also tell us about crashes to help us improve Poser’s reliability."

So if we don't want to update to 11.3 or any version thereafter they'll just shut us down. How charming.

BTW the Stuxnet Virus was facilitated by phone home software. Sleep tight :)

movida posted at 6:02PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372075

Rhia474 posted at 4:26PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372069

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this?

Maybe because Microsoft stated up front that they were collecting data, and actually I think they ask permission, in fact I know they do because I get periodic pop ups requesting permission for this or that data to go to Microsoft but I'm using Windows 7 and will continue to do so.

If they had eliminated the phone home they'd have become heroes to all. Now they're just playing us for fools with this phone home. I researched Bondware - they supply communications (newspapers etc) software and brag about being able to supply lock outs for non paying subscribers. Well and good, but don't then pretend they don't have the ability to eliminate the phone home if they want to. It's the deceptions that rub.

You have no idea what they're doing with your data so how can you be so naive as to say we should complain if they do something bad, I can't believe that one.

I'm incredibly happy you have nothing to hide but the issue is our right to privacy.

ROFL, you might just want to read up on Windows 10 data collection, but I'll give you a clue.....they don't ask permission and you cannot refuse to participate in the data collection unless you own a Windows10 Enterprise license.

And, if opening Poser so depresses you, might I suggest you delete it from your computer and move on? And, while you're at it, you should disconnect the internet, your web browser and email programs. They're all collecting data from you.

And, there was absolutely no deception on the part of Bondware/Renderosity. They told us from the getgo that phone home was staying.

If there was any deception it was on the part of SM when they implemented the phone home app in Poser 2014 Game Dev without telling anyone.

You have choices, and you can protect your privacy if you're so concerned. It's simple. Start deleting.

Glitterati3D posted at 5:08PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372084

movida posted at 6:02PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372075

Rhia474 posted at 4:26PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372069

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this?

Maybe because Microsoft stated up front that they were collecting data, and actually I think they ask permission, in fact I know they do because I get periodic pop ups requesting permission for this or that data to go to Microsoft but I'm using Windows 7 and will continue to do so.

If they had eliminated the phone home they'd have become heroes to all. Now they're just playing us for fools with this phone home. I researched Bondware - they supply communications (newspapers etc) software and brag about being able to supply lock outs for non paying subscribers. Well and good, but don't then pretend they don't have the ability to eliminate the phone home if they want to. It's the deceptions that rub.

You have no idea what they're doing with your data so how can you be so naive as to say we should complain if they do something bad, I can't believe that one.

I'm incredibly happy you have nothing to hide but the issue is our right to privacy.

ROFL, you might just want to read up on Windows 10 data collection, but I'll give you a clue.....they don't ask permission and you cannot refuse to participate in the data collection unless you own a Windows10 Enterprise license.

And, if opening Poser so depresses you, might I suggest you delete it from your computer and move on? And, while you're at it, you should disconnect the internet, your web browser and email programs. They're all collecting data from you.

And, there was absolutely no deception on the part of Bondware/Renderosity. They told us from the getgo that phone home was staying.

If there was any deception it was on the part of SM when they implemented the phone home app in Poser 2014 Game Dev without telling anyone.

You have choices, and you can protect your privacy if you're so concerned. It's simple. Start deleting.

I don't use Windows 10 if you read at all you'd have read that.

Don't you have a toddler handy you can stick pins into? That's what you're about.

I'm through with this you're just looking to start trouble.

https://www.csoonline.com/article/2136671/beware--phone-home--functionality-in-software.html

I lied :)