For me, the issue isn't so much the data collection, but the deactivation. And it's not even deactivation BECAUSE you've done something wrong or violated a rule or something, it's because you're not hooked up to the Internet.

movida posted at 6:14PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372086

Glitterati3D posted at 5:08PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372084

movida posted at 6:02PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372075

Rhia474 posted at 4:26PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372069

I don't understand. I use Microsoft and Google, I assume about 99% of people on this forum use at least one of those. Why is their known data collection better than this?

Maybe because Microsoft stated up front that they were collecting data, and actually I think they ask permission, in fact I know they do because I get periodic pop ups requesting permission for this or that data to go to Microsoft but I'm using Windows 7 and will continue to do so.

If they had eliminated the phone home they'd have become heroes to all. Now they're just playing us for fools with this phone home. I researched Bondware - they supply communications (newspapers etc) software and brag about being able to supply lock outs for non paying subscribers. Well and good, but don't then pretend they don't have the ability to eliminate the phone home if they want to. It's the deceptions that rub.

You have no idea what they're doing with your data so how can you be so naive as to say we should complain if they do something bad, I can't believe that one.

I'm incredibly happy you have nothing to hide but the issue is our right to privacy.

ROFL, you might just want to read up on Windows 10 data collection, but I'll give you a clue.....they don't ask permission and you cannot refuse to participate in the data collection unless you own a Windows10 Enterprise license.

And, if opening Poser so depresses you, might I suggest you delete it from your computer and move on? And, while you're at it, you should disconnect the internet, your web browser and email programs. They're all collecting data from you.

And, there was absolutely no deception on the part of Bondware/Renderosity. They told us from the getgo that phone home was staying.

If there was any deception it was on the part of SM when they implemented the phone home app in Poser 2014 Game Dev without telling anyone.

You have choices, and you can protect your privacy if you're so concerned. It's simple. Start deleting.

I don't use Windows 10 if you read at all you'd have read that.

Don't you have a toddler handy you can stick pins into? That's what you're about.

I'm through with this you're just looking to start trouble.

I'm not looking to start trouble. I'm just setting the record straight.

You're the one who insisted Microsoft asks permission to send data home, not me. I just corrected you.

I'm sure that makes you uncomfortable, but the truth is the truth. And, beating this dead horse over and over and over and over does what? Makes you feel better?

It's ridiculous and detrimental to Bondware/Renderosity's business. Since I have a vested interest in that business with the products I sell through them, I have the right to set the record straight when you post repeated mis/half truths.

movida posted at 5:10PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372063

gate posted at 3:38PM Mon, 02 December 2019 - #4372054

If you read the Statements about Internet activation in Poser from Smith micro you would see that there is much more behind all this. They left officially the option that you choose your self if they can get information about your Habits and Hard software you use. I believe that this option has already been removed from Bondware as Poser needs to be connected. also there is no Offline activation as an option.The store gets integrated into the software.

Collecting Private information has to be stated clearly in the Info once you buy the software I recall that allot of Information Bondware is giving are miss leading and are very unprofessional. Actually you do not really get any Information like a Professional serious software distributor gives out . One Page will tell you that you can activate Offline the other say's you need Internet so how could the customer know.

" we will be collecting anonymous data help our team identify features in Poser that are frequently used. It also will give us a very basic snapshot of the hardware you are running on. That data will also tell us about crashes to help us improve Poser’s reliability."

WHAT?????????

Holy Smokinoly!

To Answer Rhia, with google and the others I automatically delete my cookies after a session and do everything to make sure after a search not much remains. I also use Duck duck go first as a general habit. I also browse in private mode. In theory the most they can get is one internet browsing session. If they go for an ip address, I think we have it on a rotating basis for what is seen from the outside. Recommended by a security expert a while ago. There are other things you can do when you set things up depending upon how much time you want to spend, but once running those privacy things are transparent to you.

But if you're using specific software like a drawing program that reports from your computer directly to the owner, especially if it collects data over time then when you access the net tells on you...yeah. yikes. That's different. I don't think I have anything on my machine that does anything like that to that extent. (((Shiver))).

Can we, first of all, please, get a link to what document and where it says what it says above? And what is the context? I am not trying to start trouble but I was taught in college to always quote my sources.

Thank you.

For full transparency, in case people did not read their EULA's for Poser 11.2, here is the part about info collection. While I raise an eyebrow about only mentioning Poser Pro Game Dev (would like to know more), there is an express permission needed clause there.

And just to be clear, this is on your computer under Poser 11/ Content/Documentation.

COLLECTION AND USE OF YOUR INFORMATION IN POSER PRO GAME DEV

Activation of the Program is REQUIRED in order to use the Poser Pro Game Dev version of the Program. You must have a valid serial number in order to complete the activation process of the Program. Upon your first installation of the Program, you will be prompted to activate the Program, and the Program will attempt to automatically connect to the Internet. Please be sure you have an Internet connection when initially installing the Program in order to activate the Program. The Program includes instructions regarding activation if you are not connected to (or unable to connect to) the Internet when attempting to complete the activation process of the Program. To complete the activation process, you will need to provide your name, valid e-mail address and applicable valid serial number for activating the Program.
As part of the activation process you will have the option to "opt-in" to receive product announcements and offers from BONDWARE. In addition, as part of the activation process, you will have the option to "opt-in" to participate in BONDWARE's efforts to improve the usability, experience, functionality and performance of its products and services. Your participation to allow BONDWARE to collect such usage statistics is voluntary. And, you may "opt out" at any time. If you choose to participate, BONDWARE may collect and use certain information related to the Program and your use of the Program that include information about: (i) your computer, such as Operation System, screen resolution, RAM capacity, CPU frequency, number of monitors; (ii) data about the Program, such as abnormal terminations, number of runs, program version; and (iii) information about separate feature usage, such as menu options or buttons selected. The information described in (i) – (iii) above will be combined and utilized in an anonymous manner to help BONDWARE’s efforts as noted above. If you are not comfortable sharing the foregoing described information, please choose not to participate. BONDWARE is very concerned with the privacy and security of the information end users provide as part of the registration, activation and opt-in processes described above. Any information collected described above is done and utilized in accordance with BONDWARE's Privacy Policy. Your election to use the Program indicates your acceptance of the terms of the BONDWARE Privacy Policy, so please review the policy carefully and check our website at the following URL to review updates: http://www.bondware.com/. Further, if you are located in the European Economic Area (EEA), your use of the Program constitutes consent by you to BONDWARE's and/or its affiliates to the transfer of such information to a location outside the EEA.

The same exact information appears in the Poser Pro Game Dev and Poser 11 EULA, for the record:

As follows:

Activation of the Software is REQUIRED in order to use the Software. Additionally, periodic reactivation of the Software may occur. You must have a valid serial number in order to complete the activation process of the Software. Upon your first installation of the Software, you will be prompted to activate the Software, and the Software will attempt to automatically connect to the Internet. Please be sure you have an Internet connection when initially installing the Software in order to activate the Software. The Software includes instructions regarding activation if you are not connected to (or unable to connect to) the Internet when attempting to complete the activation process of the Software. To complete the initial activation process, you will need to provide your name, valid e-mail address and applicable valid serial number for activating the Software.

As part of the initial activation process you will have the option to "opt-in" to receive product announcements and offers from SMSI. In addition, as part of the initial activation process, you will have the option to "opt-in" to participate in SMSI's efforts to improve the usability, experience, functionality and performance of its products and services. Your participation to allow SMSI to collect such usage statistics is voluntary. And, you may"opt out" at any time. If you choose to participate, SMSI may collect and use certain information related to the Software and your use of the Software that include information about: (i) your computer, such as Operation System, screen resolution, RAM capacity, CPU frequency, number of monitors; (ii) data about the Software, such as abnormal terminations, number of runs, program version; and (iii) information about separate feature usage, such as menu options or buttons selected. The information described in (i) - (iii) above will be combined and utilized in an anonymous manner to help SMSI's efforts as noted above. If you are not comfortable sharing the foregoing described information, please choose not to participate.

SMSI is very concerned with the privacy and security of the information end users provide as part of the registration, activation and opt-in processes described above. Any information collected described above is done and utilized in accordance with SMSI's Privacy Policy. Your election to use the Software indicates your acceptance of the terms of the SMSI Privacy Policy, so please review the policy carefully and check our website at the following URL to review updates: http://www.smithmicro.com/. Further, if you are located in the European Economic Area (EEA), your use of the Software constitutes consent by you to SMSI's and/or its affiliates to the transfer of such information to a location outside the EEA:

The EULA displays during installation and in the manuals. If you still have the SMSI version of Game Dev or Poser 11 or 11.1 installed you will find the exact same EULA text in the Installing Poser section of the manual, and it also appears in a window when you are installing Poser. This isn't a big brother conspiracy, please don't turn it into one.

... Data collection about the use of the program itself is as common as every other thing these days. Most programs are doing this, claiming that it's to help them improve the program and squash bugs. While, of course, I know some of them use that data for things they're not claiming they're doing... if we are gonna worry about this we pretty much have to stick to indie + old software.

Complaining about it on the software owner's forum ain't gonna change much. That's a worldwide phenomenum.

And here is your opt in-opt out.

No changes here either.

Lord, not the facts!!!!

8-)

I know the docs intimately. I lived them for 8 years.

Fake News. ?

ROFLMAO

Hmm... I DID opt out.

If you have Windows 10 Pro, you can stop the data collection by Microsoft. No, it is not an easily clickable solution, but it is possible ... just saying.

Deecey posted at 4:09AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372097

The EULA displays during installation and in the manuals. If you still have the SMSI version of Game Dev or Poser 11 or 11.1 installed you will find the exact same EULA text in the Installing Poser section of the manual, and it also appears in a window when you are installing Poser. This isn't a big brother conspiracy, please don't turn it into one.

With respect to you, Deecey, while I might not sound an alarm at a Big Brother conspiracy, it doesn't mean there isn't a conspiracy. Company Policies aren't laws, they're policies. Not the same thing. People and Companies ignore policies all the time if it is in their interest to do so. In my experience and belief, I do believe that most laws are actually conspiracies written by lawyers generally written to absolve their clients of guilt or blame. And most EULAs aren't even read by the users. They aren't really meant to be. In some cases, EULAs require that you hold harmless any software company that may own software that damages your computer or data. And in many cases, EULAs allow companies to change the very nature of the contract you're agreeing to, retroactively, after you've signed it. Which means, they're not worth the metaphorical paper they're not even written on.

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" - Stasi

Some people really should read up on history. It frightens me to see how easily so many people - primarily the young - shrug off companies mining all your personal data.

Rhia474 posted at 6:18AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372103

Lord, not the facts!!!!

Glad you had a good laugh at what you thought would be my expense. Here are the facts:

Rhia, your submission of "documentation" does not mention Poser Pro 11 at all, so it's relation to the current subject or Poser 11 = 0 Deecey: your "documentation" is a Smith Micro EULA and we've been told time and time again that Smith Micro has NO relationship to Poser anymore. It;s relation to Poser 11 = 0

So at present out of 3 "documents" submitted, none protect the buyer and 1 protects Bondware. I'm leaving before the gaslighter chimes in but Bondware does need to be a little more selective in whom they choose as their public face.

Have a nice day.

Well, that was uncalled for. But my post about the EULA was meant to imply that basically it was boilerplate terminology and why I consider it a "conspiracy". So you could plugin Bondware for SmithMicro with trouble at all.

As I said before, my problem isn't with the data collection, I know they do that and I guard against it. My problem is with the deactivation of the program for not being hooked up to the internet. A point the EULA doesn't require or address.

Well we can get to the next facts !! as I said there is much more then one could imagine, consequences are like already mentioned that the Honest People get Punished they get a Call Home , they get spied out , they might loose there entire runtime ... and why because they are honest ? Nop it is because Industrial can do with them as they wish. Making them believe on what they say. I said I am not willing to use Poser 11.2 and I still will not use it why should I anyway ! they will spend there whole energy on trying to controll you but see one spends 15 minutes and it will start all over again ! If one really wants to get rid of a Call Home it will be so no matter how hard the try to Prevent it !

I made a test on my dusty old Laptop to be able to argue as I until now did not look into the Bondware Poser Version I did not even had to connect my self to the Internet! I am not a Professional Programmer so what do you think a Professional could do. The trial is the barrier if that one would be removed it would cause Poser to be active offline with no call Home

I would say that Bondware instead of insisting to keep there Call Home would have way more success removing it and concentrate on a Better Poser for a better Future supporting there Honest Members rather then to Punish them. I sometimes think that Poser would of been in Better hands if Daz would of gotten it !

Given that I prefaced that this was the documentation from my Poser 11, gave the folder and gave my caveat, I feel I have satisfied the factualities required.

Now, I resent ad hominem attacks and with that I am out of this thread. Sort of sad how many times I have to say that on this forum--maybe that tells I am naive and thin skinned. I am also shaking my head about the fact that someone quotes the Stasi to me. I am from an ex-Block country, you know, and saw that shit live (so not that young either). False equivalencies always make me mad. Perhaps it is really better that I stop trying to argue and concentrate on helping those with actual questions instead when I can.

Have a lovely day.

movida posted at 8:21AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372133

Rhia474 posted at 6:18AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372103

Lord, not the facts!!!!

Glad you had a good laugh at what you thought would be my expense. Here are the facts:

Rhia, your submission of "documentation" does not mention Poser Pro 11 at all, so it's relation to the current subject or Poser 11 = 0 Deecey: your "documentation" is a Smith Micro EULA and we've been told time and time again that Smith Micro has NO relationship to Poser anymore. It;s relation to Poser 11 = 0

So at present out of 3 "documents" submitted, none protect the buyer and 1 protects Bondware. I'm leaving before the gaslighter chimes in but Bondware does need to be a little more selective in whom they choose as their public face.

Have a nice day.

Here's the same section from the current Poser 11.2 manual (Bondware version)

The point here is that NOTHING HAS CHANGED in regards to the EULA regarding the data collection and ability to opt in or opt out, which is what some here are seeing as some sort of big brother attempt to sell personal information. It is exactly the same as the Poser 11.1 EULA that you have now. You see what you choose to see, but what you are choosing to see simply isn't there.

Have a nice day. Over and out.

Story time!

There was one time that a brazilian lady called Microsoft support. She complained that a star icon started appearing near her Windows 7's clock, saying "Genuine Program" or something similar, warning her that her Windows was not legit.

Person in the support service told her "ma'am, you were probably fooled into purchasing a pirated copy of Windows" to which she replied - and went down into our history for stupidity - "I WASN'T FOOLED! I INSTALLED A PIRATED WINDOWS AND I DEMAND MY CUSTOMER RIGHTS TO HAVE THIS ANNOYANCE STAR REMOVED!"

.... On other news completely, purely on coincidence, entirely unrelated, as a curiosity - this was posted on the official forums of the company that owns Poser Software:

Pfff. Over and out here too.

gate posted at 8:42AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372136

I would say that Bondware instead of insisting to keep there Call Home would have way more success removing it and concentrate on a Better Poser for a better Future supporting there Honest Members rather then to Punish them. I sometimes think that Poser would of been in Better hands if Daz would of gotten it !

More than likely Poser would be completely dead, for everyone, and you'd still be sending information to DAZ.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 8:42AM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372141

Story time!

There was one time that a brazilian lady called Microsoft support. She complained that a star icon started appearing near her Windows 7's clock, saying "Genuine Program" or something similar, warning her that her Windows was not legit.

Person in the support service told her "ma'am, you were probably fooled into purchasing a pirated copy of Windows" to which she replied - and went down into our history for stupidity - "I WASN'T FOOLED! I INSTALLED A PIRATED WINDOWS AND I DEMAND MY CUSTOMER RIGHTS TO HAVE THIS ANNOYANCE STAR REMOVED!"

.... On other news completely, purely on coincidence, entirely unrelated, as a curiosity - this was posted on the official forums of the company that owns Poser Software:

Pfff. Over and out here too.

Give gate a minute......he'll post step by step instructions on how to crack Poser security on their own forums.

Bragging rights and all, ya know........

Rhia474 posted at 2:40PM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372137

I am also shaking my head about the fact that someone quotes the Stasi to me. I am from an ex-Block country, you know, and saw that shit live

An yet, you willingly give up your personal info so easily? Then you have learned nothing. Which proves my point.

BTW, my comment wasn't directed at you personally, but at everyone who doesn't take their privacy seriously.

Bottom line, my issue is primarily with the deactivation feature. Yes, Bondware didn't start it, but they had a golden opportunity to get rid of it. They chose to make it worse.

Perhaps when you folks are done demolishing Bondware/Renderosity, you can take on something REALLY important like this:

The Trump administration intends to propose a regulation next year that would require all travelers - including U.S. citizens - to be photographed when entering or leaving the United States, according to the administration’s regulatory agenda.

The proposed regulation, slated to be issued in July by the Homeland Security Department, would be part of a broader system to track travelers as they enter and exit the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-privacy/u-s-homeland-security-proposes-face-scans-for-citizens-idUSKBN1Y62JO

@ Afrodite-Ohki @Glitterati3D

well no it is not a Hack and there will not be any Instructions for it , It is to make you aware of a situation. By manipulating on the Smith micro security they actually caused a Glitch a simple error that actually is Fatal as there actually is no working Protection in Poser 11.2 anymore what remained was a Popup of an old Smith Micro Ghost.

Also it is not in any Intention to show how to do it it is to show that there is an Error like many that are done since they Toy around trying to change a working version. Well guess they are already working on a Fix for the issues meaning that you will have to Update soon LOL " and Tell me how would they know if no one tells ? "

But still like Oki already mentioned many times there are no Prevention ! and like many others feel that have a legitimate version is that they suffer on a Call Home and there might be many that even can not use poser anymore as they have it not on the Internet.

Well Glitterati3D you probably wish to get Instructions " Keep on Dreaming " some People think they ate Intelligence with a teaspoon, as it is not intended to damage Bondware in any way else it would not of been said in here that there is a Fatal error. They ask you to say if there are issues with Poser from Users ! so well there is one.

Glitterati3D posted at 3:20PM Tue, 03 December 2019 - #4372145

Perhaps when you folks are done demolishing Bondware/Renderosity, you can take on something REALLY important like this:

The Trump administration intends to propose a regulation next year that would require all travelers - including U.S. citizens - to be photographed when entering or leaving the United States, according to the administration’s regulatory agenda.

The proposed regulation, slated to be issued in July by the Homeland Security Department, would be part of a broader system to track travelers as they enter and exit the United States.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-privacy/u-s-homeland-security-proposes-face-scans-for-citizens-idUSKBN1Y62JO

If I were to apply for Visa to the US, I would already be required to give them access to my Facebook and any other social media accounts (which i don't have, and would probably be considered suspicious enough to deny me entrance), my email accounts and any and all personal information they deem necessary, a detailed explanation of where I would be going, who I would talk to and what I would be doing. On entrance, if I were carrying any electronic devices, I would have to be prepared for border patrol (or whatever they are called) to take a copy of any and all content on these devices, be it software, pictures, letters or any other private info.

The US is already a fascist state in many regards. Which is why it is even more disturbing that people so willingly give up their info.

Okay, I'm out. This thread is gonna get locked soon anyway. For the record, I suggest everyone back away from the keyboards and take deep breaths. Then move on. You've made your point.

Agree. Let's shut this down.