Now that I finally got the V4 Morphs++ problem fixed by having everything share the same Runtime, the dreaded "Eyes Won't Close" bug is here. I searched this forum and Google looking for a solution, and I tried the recommended fix -- changing delta values.

I have experimented with the delta values for the Open-Close Eyes parameter dial extensively without any hint of a change that would lead me to believe I'm on the right track. My recollection is I had this problem when I first installed Poser 11 Pro a few years ago, and it didn't go away until I reinstalled V4.2 and Morphs++ into separate runtimes. Doing it this way eliminated the Morphforms parameter dials but I didn't really need them as much as the eye controls -- plus, all the other morphs still worked fine. I'm currently running PP 11.2 on a W7 PC.

Any ideas how to fix this without getting a code reader and changing program code?

Thanks!

Take a look here for some insight; https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2882483. The 2 links mentioned no longer exist so don't bother to follow up on those. Here is a more recent post (2 yrs ago?) about the same problem at Smith Micro forum: https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/9070/v4-eyes-don-t-close/9. Hope this can solve your problem.

hborre posted at 7:27PM Sat, 18 April 2020 - #4386650

Take a look here for some insight; https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2882483. The 2 links mentioned no longer exist so don't bother to follow up on those. Here is a more recent post (2 yrs ago?) about the same problem at Smith Micro forum: https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/9070/v4-eyes-don-t-close/9. Hope this can solve your problem.

Thanks for the links!

I did see these helpful suggestions yesterday in my own search and tried changing the relevant deltas where I could but with no solution to the problem. I must admit the script editors some of the others used are way beyond my level of experience. But I did try a few other things...

I renamed the original V4/M++ folder with separate Runtimes back to what it was so my original Library listing could find it again -- even while the new V4/M++ installation with a shared Runtime and functional Morphforms was on the same HDD and also listed in the Library -- and now the V4 eyes open-close function worked again. However, since I had two different V4 Runtimes on the same HDD -- a big no-no -- that broke the newer V4 installation... not a huge surprise. It is interesting to note that the Eyes Open - Close deltas are the same on the working original installation as the non-working one... so the problem must lie somewhere else... probably in the M++ part of the shared Runtime.

At any rate, I now have V4 eyes working again in my original V4 installation, along with the most important (to me) morphs still working -- just not the Morphforms that can make full arm/leg/body movement and body shape adjustment easier. And if I need the Morphforms for something, all I have to do is temporarily rename the original installation's folder and the newer installation should resume full morph duties again. It's the best workaround I know of until/unless a better solution is revealed to me.

One other note I should mention: I also tried a brand new V4/M++ shared Runtime installation on a non-system HDD, just in case that was enough separation from V4/M++ on my C:/ drive to prevent a conflict; the problem still persisted, though.

Glad you got around the problem. Don't forget to load the V4 Base whenever possible. That will give you some additional basic morphs.

I FINALLY found a fix that actually worked for me!!! I'll post this in a related thread I've got going so more people can find this solution.

None of the other fixes involving changing deltas worked for me. Here's what I did: in the Public Documents > My DAZ 3D Library > Runtime > Libraries > !DAZ > Victoria 4 > Head folder of the DAZ-installed V4 and Morphs++ , where the two share a common Runtime so the Morphforms work correctly... but in my case V4's eyes won't open or close, I noticed NINE files in the Head folder -- not FIVE like the normal V4 Head folder has and where the eyes open and close as they should. So I deleted the NINE files and replaced them by copying the FIVE files to the Head folder. Then I launched Poser and loaded V 4.2 to see what would happen. V4 wouldn't load and Poser informed me there was a missing file required, and it's name: 05-ps_pe070_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2. So I found that file out of the group of NINE I had previously deleted, added it to the FIVE I replaced the NINE files with, ran the DZ .bat file to initialize everything before launching Poser, AND THIS TIME WHEN I LOADED V4 THE EYES ACTUALLY WORKED!!!

Apparently, when you have the DAZ Installer merge V4 and Morphs++ into a shared Runtime, it adds some extra files in the Head folder which creates a conflict that breaks the V4 eye open-close parameter dial adjustment. But if you remove those files and replace them with just the FIVE files that are found in the V4 Runtime > Libraries > !DAZ > Victoria 4 > Head folder of an installation where it ISN'T merged with a M++ Runtime, plus return the 05-ps_pe070_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2 file found in Head folder of the DAZ-combined V4/M++ merged Runtime, that fixes the problem... At least on my platform... There is a chance I may in time find this fix has created other problems, but they can only be head-related since that's the only folder I modified. But Poser seemed happy once I added that sixth file (05-ps_pe070_DAZ_Chnnls.pz2).

Okay -- I did find a few problems and if I check out some more of those original NINE files there may be one or two more to add back some time later when I have the time... but they aren't showstoppers for me so far. Once you load Morphs++ to V4 there are a few head-related anomalies: The Morph++ parameter dials for Head Size is comical -- only the eyes and teeth enlarge. But yo can easily change the scale of the head directly using the Scale editing tool mouse pointer. The neck works okay. With the Full Body morph dials, the head doesn't change along with the rest of the body. In the coming days or weeks I'll look at the other Head folder files I removed to which ones I might need after all...

Okay -- this is probably my last update on this issue unless someone brighter than me on the inner workings of Poser and V4 can further enlighten me. I will also post this in the other related thread for maximum chance of it helping others...

So I did try analyzing the geometry functions and deltas in the remaining 3 files I had deleted of the original NINE that DAZ installed in the V4/M++ shared Runtime that broke V4's open-close eyes parameter dial when they were present. However, without those files, although the eyes worked, NOW the Morphs++ head scale and whole body morphs DIDN'T work on the head part. IIRC, of those 3 files, only the 05-ps_pe070_DAZ_ERC.pz2 seemed to have any function related to morph delta adjustments -- yet none of its parameters controlled the head scale. I reinstalled it in the Head folder and it broke the eyes without fixing the head scale problem. I then installed the other two previously removed files of the original NINE and the Head scale worked again -- but not the eyes. In the 05-ps_pe070_DAZ_ERC.pz2 file I noticed duplicate eye morph features and different deltas from the 05-ps_pe069_DAZ_ERC.pz2 file and thought that was conflicting with it -- so I removed all the items dealing with the eyes to see if that would fix it... but it didn't help.

Basically I tried every logical combination of those 3 originally deleted files of the original NINE to see if there was a combo where both the eyes AND the head scale would work, but none was found. So if I remove those 3 files of the original NINE the eyes work and the vast majority of the other ++Morphs work normally. But the head scale, some of the character face adjustments, some of the general face emotional expression adjustments don't work. It is interesting to note that in most of these cases, there are also right and left controls for the same parameter that DO work. Go figure.

If deleting those files fixed the problem there must have been something wrong with either those files, or the one that incorporates them.

When I look in that folder on my system, I see a similar range of files for each of the morph packages I have installed:

In the folder above, lies the file which includes each of the ERC files for each morph package:

That file looks like this inside:

If there are lines missing or duplicated in V4ERC.pz2, that might cause a problem.

ps_pe069 is the base V4 expressions package. You must have this at least for eyelids to work. ps_pe070 is the V4 face shapes and default full body morphs. It also contains the Eye direction control channels, so you need that too. M4 uses different package numbers, so there should never be any conflict between the two figures. (M4 has ps_pe074 instead of V4's ps_pe069)

Here's what's in ps_pe070 for the head scale control:

an0malaus posted at 9:07PM Fri, 24 April 2020 - #4387245

If deleting those files fixed the problem there must have been something wrong with either those files, or the one that incorporates them.

ps_pe069 is the base V4 expressions package. You must have this at least for eyelids to work. ps_pe070 is the V4 face shapes and default full body morphs. It also contains the Eye direction control channels, so you need that too. ps_pe070 for the head scale control, too.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Yes, I do have those two files in the V4 Head folder and all the eye controls seem to work. I was surprised that the head scale doesn't work when the ps_pe070 file is the only one I've seen with head scale controls...

You have many more files in your V4 Head folder than I do... are these added from other V4 character morphs?

Any idea what the Chnnls, Grps and LinkPrms files are for? Could they be adding a conflict that would stop eyes or head scale not to work? All the files I currently do have in my V4 Head folder are 100% original from DAZ with no alterations from me.

I think I'd have to do a whole lot of searching of these head folder files to even have a chance of finding out what the problem is...

Grps files contain the hierarchy of what you see in the Parameters palette, grouping related channels. If they're missing, all the parameters will be in the top level, so things will be harder to find.

Chnnls files are the actual dial channel definitions. These define the parameter limits and contain the value operations added by the ERC files, as well as the deltas which comprise morphTargets.

LinkParms are a feature which predates value operations/ERC and provided a way to link parameters on different actors, meaning a dial on the body can control other parameters with the same name on other actors. You may have noticed that V4 and M4 have a bodyMorphs actor. This now obsolete addition was required because Poser would not initially save value parameters on the Body actor. The solution was to create dummy targetGeom morphs on the bodyMorphs actor and use linkParms to slave them to the Body valueParm settings. A saved pose could then save the slaved morph channels on the bodyMorphs actor and reapply them when the pose was loaded onto a figure in the scene.

The need for linkParms really went away when valueOperations were more fully fleshed out, and when Poser would actually save value Parameter channels on the Body actor to pose files. The one advantage of linkParms was that you could change the parameter on either actor, and the dial on the other would follow. This is much like what masterSync is intended to do, but is implemented differently.

I always found irritating problems with the linkParm implementation in later versions of Poser, since it was possible that a pose would have different settings for linked parameters on the Body actor and the bodyMorphs actor. This could cause race conditions and confusing changes to figure appearances from what was expected when the pose was saved to the library.

My weight mapped V4 equivalent of Sasha-16 has had all linkParms removed, along with the bodyMorphs actor. Lights in Poser still make use of linkParms to control their shadow light camera parameters. Some folks are sold on linkParms, and I admit, the concept is useful, but the implementation is not quite robust enough to eliminate the potential problems, so I've ditched them.

MasterSync is another, similar feature that either delights or confounds the user. The idea of changing a linked/synched parameter on one actor and having the effect propagate up or down the hierarchy is very useful, but when it comes to implementing or troubleshooting valueOperations, it's a nightmare. I have that turned off permanently in my PoserPrefs file.

The most likely cause of the problem could be as simple as a typo in one of the ERC files, causing it to fail to apply.

The other thing to check, which I didn't mention above, is what is in the V4 CR2 file that you load from the library. As with all the files in the !DAZ hierarchy, there is a very small version of V4 which uses readScript lines to populate the Grps, Chnnls & LnkParms files for each actor.

It looks like this:

That makes the that V4.cr2 very small, as it doesn't directly contain the morphs, but incorporates them from !DAZ:Victoria 4

After defining all the actors and their empty channels and injection channels, the last thing it does before defining the figure section, which details the actor hierarchy, welds, linkParms and materials, is to incorporate the ERC files.

If you load that, then inject all the morph packages and save it back to the library, you end up with a much larger, self contained V4 CR2 file.

The additional morph packages I use are Morphs++, Elite, Muscle and Stephanie4, as well as non-DAZ GND4 and a few other bits and pieces I've collected along the years.

an0malaus posted at 5:03PM Sat, 25 April 2020 - #4387270

Thanks for all the helpful info regarding the purpose of the various file section names (Grps, Channls, etc.) and how they all work together behind the scenes to make a digital model operate. When you say: "The most likely cause of the problem could be as simple as a typo in one of the ERC files, causing it to fail to apply." that makes me more likely to continue with the workaround I have. There are already so many abbreviations used in that programming I wouldn't recognize a typo unless it bit me... If this was a reasonably easy to solve problem, DAZ probably would have fixed it years ago.

Thanks once again for all the interesting info!

I believe DAZ did fix it, but not everyone religiously downloads every single update to a figure they've purchased (or downloaded freely) years ago.

I do remember that update many, many years ago. It would probably be prudent to reinstall V4 from a fresh site download.

When I used the DIM to install V4/M++ and M4/M++ less than a week ago, it did a fresh download from their site instead of using what I had locally on my PC -- but even THAT version is only about two years old. I know the the date range of the V4 files I displayed earlier in this thread was from 2007 and 2008, but that's what they sent and installed for me a week ago. Repairs and updates to code doesn't necessarily mean they update the original code or folder dates when doing so. I will try a manual download just in case I see something newer, but I know they renamed Morphs ++ something else within the past year or so and V4 is probably the latest as well.

So I manually downloaded the current build versions of V4.2 and M++ from DAZ and decided NOT to let DAZ do the installation this time. The only problems I've been having relate to the Head folder, so I decided to delete everything that was currently in there and replace it with the combined files from the latest V4.2 and M++ head folders -- a total of NINE files again. The same-named NINE files that previously wouldn't work correctly. Re-initialized and launched Poser; loaded V4.2 followed by M++. Now BOTH the eyes open-close function AND the head size morphs WORK correctly!!! Simply AMAZING!!! I've been trying to solve this issue off and on since I first bought Poser and the V4 models in Nov. 2017!!!

I can't see any difference in the contents of the latest V4/M++ Runtimes VS the one I got in Nov. 2017. I really think something in the DIM is corrupting some files when it does the installation. What does DAZ care about the performance of an old model of theirs still being used today by their main competitor -- and V4/M4 still quite popular with plenty of merchant support? Why would DAZ want to fix this problem? Exactly...

Thanks again to everyone who offered help to me in solving this frustrating problem It has been quite a learning experience for me. I hope this thread might help anyone else who encounters this anomaly in the future.

Very glad to hear you got it working again