I just got an email from Bondware that stated that Poser 12 for the Mac has just been released for sale. While ultimately, I find this to be good news, even though I'm no longer ON a Mac, I also find it extremely disturbing. One of the things I always liked about Poser was that it always came out with Mac and Windows versions... simultaneously. In fact, that was one of the deciding factors that first led me down the Poser path. I LIKED that Poser came out for Mac and Windows users at the same time. Even with all of the disappointments from Smith Micro in the past regarding Poser's development, they never let me down on that fact. So I have to admit a certain... foreboding when I discovered that Poser was releasing a Windows version of the software first, WITHOUT one for the Mac. Of course, since Jobs died and Tim Cook took over the reins at Apple, I can understand that the Mac has been a kind of... moving target for developers. I'm also not a big fan of Cook's as he seems to care more for the I-Phone's development than he does the Mac's. But it does make me wonder about Poser's future under Bondware.

Apple became a trillion Dollar Company selling Iphones, not computers & laptops. and good for them ....they are a true American ,business success story.?

Apple has made it clear they do not care about or even need to support the 3D/CG/gaming industry as they have become a luxury brand for affluent consumers.. not the average 3D/CG artist.

I switched to the windows OS nearly nine years ago, to access the Reallusion software for Character animation, and never looked back.

Today any Daz studio/Mac user who upgrades to "Big Sur" will be locked out of Daz studio until at least the fall of 2021 according to Daz .?

I would not blame Bondware or Daz inc. one bit for dropping Mac OS support entirely in the near future

Unless they somehow could make Poser/DS run on an Iphone.?

wolf359 posted at 9:35AM Sat, 30 January 2021 - #4411437

Apple became a trillion Dollar Company selling Iphones, not computers & laptops. and good for them ....they are a true American ,business success story.?

Apple has made it clear they do not care about or even need to support the 3D/CG/gaming industry as they have become a luxury brand for affluent consumers.. not the average 3D/CG artist.

I switched to the windows OS nearly nine years ago, to access the Reallusion software for Character animation, and never looked back.

Today any Daz studio/Mac user who upgrades to "Big Sur" will be locked out of Daz studio until at least the fall of 2021 according to Daz .?

I would not blame Bondware or Daz inc. one bit for dropping Mac OS support entirely in the near future

Unless they somehow could make Poser/DS run on an Iphone.?

Yeah, that last part's not going to happen according to Bondware. I never got Studio to run on a mac until DS 2.9 It never ran for me again after that version. So I've never been a Studio fan.

What Wolf said.

Apple is leaving the PC market space.

Apparently Poser 12 Mac won't run on any Mac OS before Catalina. So I shan't be upgrading unless I can find a way to get it to run on Mojave, the one before Catalina. It also runs 64bit stuff. Any ideas?

ssgbryan posted at 3:08PM Sat, 30 January 2021 - #4411452

What Wolf said.

Apple is leaving the PC market space.

Says who?

A_Sunbeam posted at 3:32PM Sat, 30 January 2021 - #4411480

Apparently Poser 12 Mac won't run on any Mac OS before Catalina. So I shan't be upgrading unless I can find a way to get it to run on Mojave, the one before Catalina. It also runs 64bit stuff. Any ideas?

I tried it on macOS 10.13 and it does not start. When I launch Poser 12 in a terminal it complains that libtiff is version 11 but it needs version 12. This lib is the local one installed by Poser 12 so I gave up. I suspect there are more version conflicts with other libs. BTW 64 bit is not the problem macOS was always 64 bit.

Apple has always been very picky about what it will and will not allow to happen on their hardware. And make no mistake it is their hardware. At the college we had 5 Macs all the same basic model some had the CPU running at 995 MZh and the others at 1005 MHz. We tried to update the systems to latest version of OS at the time (which I don't remember) and it worked on the 1005 machines but would not even run the installer on the 995 machines because they did not meet specs of having a 1000Mhz or greater CPU. We got around that by installing on the 1005 machines and then swapping the hard drives between machines. The 995 machines ran just fine, just a touch slower. So it wasn't something the machine was incapable of doing just that Apple did not want it to work on the slower machine so you would be forced to buy a newer Mac.

I have watched the comments about the Mac version and there are several things that needed to be changed to allow Poser to run on the newer MAcs as compared to the Windows machine. At work I have some hardware that allows laptops to be hooked into the classroom's Display system. With a PC even if the driver is slightly out of date it will still run. With the Mac it refuses to even allow the user to install the driver, even if he wanted to.

I used Mac's for 20 years as professional Graphic designer for print

I understand the logic behind thier"closed garden"approach

Uniform standards:

there are some advantages to being able to offer one SDK and have third party developers be assured the their software is going to run on your rigidly controlled hardware configurations.

The many facial mocap plugins for iphone 10,11,12 are a great example of this.

there are high end Android phones with the proper 3D cameras for mocap but Android phones are all over the place in thier hardware configurations thus little to no mocap plugins.

I loved my mac computers (still running a 14 year old macbook with a burned out internal display) ?

however my decision to migrate to windows was as detached and unemotional as any other consumer product that no longer serves my purpose.

Steve jobs predicted that most internet consumption will soon occur on mobile devices and the "mouse over" function of flash based websites would be the death of flash

Jobs is dead ..and so is Macromedia & flash.

There was time when only the big professional 3D/VFX companies Absolutely needed to be on windows/linux because of their reliance on Alias wavefront & later Autodesk.

However now it has to be obvious to even the most casual Poser/ Daz hobbiest that remaining on Mac OS is a fools gambit.?

Nagra_00_ posted at 8:49AM Sun, 31 January 2021 - #4411499

A_Sunbeam posted at 3:32PM Sat, 30 January 2021 - #4411480

Apparently Poser 12 Mac won't run on any Mac OS before Catalina. So I shan't be upgrading unless I can find a way to get it to run on Mojave, the one before Catalina. It also runs 64bit stuff. Any ideas?

I tried it on macOS 10.13 and it does not start. When I launch Poser 12 in a terminal it complains that libtiff is version 11 but it needs version 12. This lib is the local one installed by Poser 12 so I gave up. I suspect there are more version conflicts with other libs. BTW 64 bit is not the problem macOS was always 64 bit.

I've just tried Poser 12 on Mojave (OS 10.14.6). Loads, opens. No problem until I tested the render engines. Opening scene rendered straight away in Superfly, exported image etc. Rendered same scene in Firefly - rendered ok. Then zilch ... couldn't do anything - couldn't select anything, couldn't even exit! (Tested other apps while poser screen still open - they all worked fine). Poser just sat there, the firefly render showing, but otherwise seemingly dead and totally unresponsive.

Had to ForceQuit. Note that the usual Apple panel didn't show asking me if I wanted to send a report (presumably there wasn't one generated).

I can link to my external libraries, add figures etc - all the usual things so far, - if this Firefly issue is the only problem, then surely it can be fixed? Any suggestions or advice, please?

Don't know, but Poser 12 for Windows seems to be available at posersoftware.com

wolf359 posted at 2:05PM Sun, 31 January 2021 - #4411437

Apple became a trillion Dollar Company selling Iphones, not computers & laptops. and good for them ....they are a true American ,business success story.?

Apple has made it clear they do not care about or even need to support the 3D/CG/gaming industry as they have become a luxury brand for affluent consumers.. not the average 3D/CG artist.

I switched to the windows OS nearly nine years ago, to access the Reallusion software for Character animation, and never looked back.

Today any Daz studio/Mac user who upgrades to "Big Sur" will be locked out of Daz studio until at least the fall of 2021 according to Daz .?

I would not blame Bondware or Daz inc. one bit for dropping Mac OS support entirely in the near future

Unless they somehow could make Poser/DS run on an Iphone.?

As I said before, DAZ has never, IMOO, been a very mac-friendly company. Most of it's early development was done on and for Windows. Many of it's early features were on and for Windows. I honestly didn't care for early versions of Studio.

A_Sunbeam posted at 4:32PM Sun, 31 January 2021 - #4411548

Nagra_00_ posted at 8:49AM Sun, 31 January 2021 - #4411499

A_Sunbeam posted at 3:32PM Sat, 30 January 2021 - #4411480

Apparently Poser 12 Mac won't run on any Mac OS before Catalina. So I shan't be upgrading unless I can find a way to get it to run on Mojave, the one before Catalina. It also runs 64bit stuff. Any ideas?

I tried it on macOS 10.13 and it does not start. When I launch Poser 12 in a terminal it complains that libtiff is version 11 but it needs version 12. This lib is the local one installed by Poser 12 so I gave up. I suspect there are more version conflicts with other libs. BTW 64 bit is not the problem macOS was always 64 bit.

I've just tried Poser 12 on Mojave (OS 10.14.6). Loads, opens. No problem until I tested the render engines. Opening scene rendered straight away in Superfly, exported image etc. Rendered same scene in Firefly - rendered ok. Then zilch ... couldn't do anything - couldn't select anything, couldn't even exit! (Tested other apps while poser screen still open - they all worked fine). Poser just sat there, the firefly render showing, but otherwise seemingly dead and totally unresponsive.

Had to ForceQuit. Note that the usual Apple panel didn't show asking me if I wanted to send a report (presumably there wasn't one generated).

I can link to my external libraries, add figures etc - all the usual things so far, - if this Firefly issue is the only problem, then surely it can be fixed? Any suggestions or advice, please?

After reading your comment i installed Poser 12 on my MacMini with MacOS 10.14.6. Poser does start but it’s not running stable. I got several crashes and it was always related to signal handling within the GUI (wxwin). From my short test i can say that Poser 12 does not work reliable on Mojave.

Short update: After changing application language to English i had no more crashes so far.

EClark1894 posted at 11:35PM Sun, 31 January 2021 - #4411494

ssgbryan posted at 3:08PM Sat, 30 January 2021 - #4411452

What Wolf said.

Apple is leaving the PC market space.

Says who?

Pessimists ever since the iPod came out.

For the record ,I dont assert that Apple is leaving the desktop/laptop market entirely.

However it is obvious that the computers & operating systems coming from Apple, will soon be so incompatible with the larger 3D/CG industry that smaller software producers Like Daz & Bondware may not find it economically worthwhile to continue to produce Mac versions of their software, and who could blame them?.

@Eclark I was locked out of Daz studio at version 2.6, on the mac, due to OSX not supporting the latest version of open GL back then.

Frankly the only reason I wanted to use DS, in those Pre Genesis days, was because the nonlinear Animate system could export animated poses to Poser.

Once I discovered the (windows only )Iclone for character animation and that it directly imported Genesis figures, then migrating over to windows. as my primary OS. became a foregone conclusion.

wolf359 posted at 10:12AM Mon, 01 February 2021 - #4411602

For the record ,I dont assert that Apple is leaving the desktop/laptop market entirely.

However it is obvious that the computers & operating systems coming from Apple, will soon be so incompatible with the larger 3D/CG industry that smaller software producers Like Daz & Bondware may not find it economically worthwhile to continue to produce Mac versions of their software, and who could blame them?.

@Eclark I was locked out of Daz studio at version 2.6, on the mac, due to OSX not supporting the latest version of open GL back then.

Frankly the only reason I wanted to use DS, in those Pre Genesis days, was because the nonlinear Animate system could export animated poses to Poser.

Once I discovered the (windows only )Iclone for character animation and that it directly imported Genesis figures, then migrating over to windows. as my primary OS. became a foregone conclusion.

From what I've read, they're not leaving the 3D/CG industry at all. Apple is quitting the Intel market and going into manufacturing their own processors this year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/new-macbook-pro-and-imac-coming-with-arm-chips-instead-of-intel---kuo.htmlPlace display text here

Apple does not have to "leave" the 3D CG industry.

They just have to keep producing exotic versions of Mac OS that breaks too many pipelines at both the professional and hobbiest level and the professional 3D/CG industry will completely leave Apple.?

(Except for those few amatures using the Iphone for motion capture.)

the Video gaming industry makes more money than Hollywood and the music industry combined.

I challenge you to find a large number of people who are using expensive Macs (with no NVIDIA support) for Game dev at the professional or indie levels.

Those new mac M1's are great!!

However even if you can afford one, its OS is apparently troublesome for Poser(as reported in this thread) and will completely prevent you from installing/using Daz studio even if only for exporting Daz content out to other apps like Poser, Reallusion, Blender. ?

Wolf never stops bad mouthing Apple huh

What studio does he work at I wonder...

Apple sold over 5.5 million Macs last quarter... their new Apple Silicon Macs are incredible and look set to disrupt the PC world big-time over the next 2 years.

In the design studio I work at we primarily use Macs as that is what our creatives demand.

We mainly use Lightwave and Maya for the 3D work (not a game studio).

At home I still use a Mac for Unity and personal 3D.

I plan on upgrading to Poser12 if and when it has Apple Silicon support.

Don't have to look very far for game developers that use both Macs and Poser... I'm right here.

As far as I can recall, Macs have always been expensive. When I was in college, I couldn't aford to get one even at the student store. They were more expensive than the car I was driving around in at the time. It would be more than ten years before I was able to afford to buy one. Even now, I still like and prefer Macs.I only made the switch over to Windows due to neccessity, and then just decided to stay. I've never used an IPhone and honestly, all I use a phone for is actually making phone calls, and a few texts, so spending hundreds of dollars for a phone would be idiotic to say the least.

Personally I think it’s a fallacy that Macs have ever been expensive. I do remember a specific time when Mac laptops were more expensive than cheap PCs, but they were in fact at the time cheaper than Sony Vaio windows laptops.

I remember my old boss spending 2 grand on a graphics card alone for his PC for 3DS Max work when a brand new Mac system would cost less.

Basically Macs were more expensive (than some cheap PCs) because they were better quality, Apple has never tried to be in the low quality market.

And yes, for years I used both, but not now.

ader posted at 12:13PM Wed, 17 February 2021 - #4412973

Personally I think it’s a fallacy that Macs have ever been expensive. I do remember a specific time when Mac laptops were more expensive than cheap PCs, but they were in fact at the time cheaper than Sony Vaio windows laptops.

I remember my old boss spending 2 grand on a graphics card alone for his PC for 3DS Max work when a brand new Mac system would cost less.

Basically Macs were more expensive (than some cheap PCs) because they were better quality, Apple has never tried to be in the low quality market.

And yes, for years I used both, but not now.

We probably have different definitions of the word "expensive" back in the 80's I was attending college and Macs had just come out maybe a year or two before. I was a student, so I could buy a "cheap" one at my student store. The "cheap" one was $2000 for a Mac classic, BEFORE taxes.

Before my time (Mac wise).

The first Macs I used were Quadra and LC475 with 0x0 processors in the 90s - which meant a nice natural progression from the Amiga I used at home.

Before that I was a Unix Sys Admin though...

I had an LC475. Bought it some years later at a Walmart, I think. Or was it a Performa? Macs did go down in price considerably when Apple came out with the PowerPC. Of course, Apple nearly went out of business because of that. They had to bring Jobs back to save the company.

I bought it, downloaded it, did one quick test render with the sample scene and femme.. it rendered and than FROZE. Just a great start.

Mac Pro, Catalina.

Okay, whenever I do a Firefly render Poser 12 freezes.

For now I'll continue working with Poser 11 pro until this new version becomes more stable.

I also sometimes get the Poser 12 render freeze. It's weird because the application looks like it's working, but nothing responds to clicking. So the visual cues that I clicked something or moused over something are there, but nothing happens when I click. No spinning wheel, nothing. I'm running Poser 12 under Big Sur on my 2019 iMac. It doesn't always happen when I render with Firefly, just sometimes.

Update: I found a workaround. I can render in the background without Poser becoming unresponsive. So maybe that will help some.

I haven't noticed any problems of Poser 12 on Mojave - 2015 MBP (last good one) and iMac Pro (the crazy powerful one). Except, if I click the post render fx thingy, crashes to nothing. Not even a "Poser Crashed, whine to Apple about it?" message. I don't like that render window anyway. The sequential numbering of renders seems gone. And I would never post in Poser. So I find the window much ado about nothing. It's like filtering photos on capture. Stu-pid.

Superfly has render bugs in it (the shadows of displacement maps). Making it useless for that. It does render faster, but not "OMG" faster.

I stopped using firefly before Superfly (Reality-Lux) so I don't really care about it. I do like the "apply mats to a bunch of mat zones" thing, although as a GUI it's a bit like "my first javascript GUI using handwritten HTML and CSS". Still, the functionality is there. I'd say that's about it. I still render in P11. And in P11 I can also use Reality/Lux, which still works nicely. Although I'm giving Superfly a lot more time, as Blender has become my 3D App of choice and then I only have to know one node system (more or less).

If Poser stops working on a Mac, I'll stop using Poser.