1 - an avatar I used: https://www.renderosity.com/filelocker/55448/download?key=229 Antonia A-pose-to-Zero_pose avatar Notes:

• 1 PNU = 8.6 ft.
• frame zero is A-pose with heels (MD avatar default), Frame 30 is zero pose

2 - A long trailing skirt with wide waist, intended for body part dynamics. Loads of self-interaction may need collision actors around figure feet (extending below ground) to prevent toes locking into garment. https://www.renderosity.com/filelocker/55449/download?key=1084

Thank you FVerbaas. That dress looks great. Will be perfect for a classical/gothic ensemble (with some different textures) that I'll be needing for her. Is the hair scarf included? Also do you know of any dynamic freebies for Antonia that look like anything that Chelsea Wolfe would wear?

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=chelsea+wolfe+singer

Like anything long, flowing, sorceress/medea/gothic?

A classic cape with hood in MD format. Note (see image) one should preferably set the hands in fist pose to prevent lock-up. Agian older model from before the days MD supported hardware items. Also this could do with hemming and such before use. For dynamic use best make contact on shoulders constrained group.

A simple cloth for play or work

I haven't looked at these models yet in Poser/a modeler but I'm assuming its tris (as typical of Poser dynamics), would you say the easiest way to model dynamics would be as quads and convert to tris? For instance if I wanted to try my hand at it, I don't have MD.

Also. Any of these models have UVs? No biggie if not just curious.

A simple playsuit ; could be conforming with the 'mane' dynamic or as separate bodypart. The thing on the chest is just MD's preview render failing.

Enjoy

All MD files. Oh well, figures.

@Primorge:

1 - MD workflow starts by making the 2D representation (a.k.a the UV's ) which are in 3D space represented as mesh panels that can be simulated. So, yes, they all come with perfect flat UV's. Texturing is just referring to the fabric you want to apply/you want MD to cut the panels from. (re)texturing is a no-brainer, especially if you use seamless textures. If you use shots of real pieces of fabric you have to choose and position the right pieces, just as if you were grafting the garment from scraps of fabric. The textures used are incorporated in the garment files, and hence may give copyright problems. Hence MD models usually come un-textured and users apply their own 'colorway'.

2 - mesh is generated by MD. Default is tris, indeed best for dynamics. Quads are optional.

3 - The first model indeed has the scarf included. Will see if I have any more gothy stuff.

A simple LoinCloth for Antonia.

Simple wide pants for Antonia

A skirt for those sunny days

MD garment format;

OK to close for the day (worked down about half the Antonia stash and left out what seem less useful or appropriate to show here): A classic corset top This one later evolved to a version for Roxie.

Are any of these obj/pp2 format?

Easiest is to get a trial license of MD so you can make them with the mesh, density and all the morphs you want.

There is a 'player' for CLO files (that's what they are, in fact) but it is not able to export geometry.

BTW: I looked op Chelsea Wolfe. saw some clips and pics. Her style is hard to point out exactly but I get the idea. Black mostly, some white, ruffled, long and flowy with a streak of skin showing through here and there. Interesting! I must have something in that vein somewhere. If I find I'll burn it to .obj for you. You have a particular body morph you want to use it on?

Sorry FVerbaas, got distracted by a project and music. If you do find anything or have anything like that it would be great. No particular body morph yet. Probably default Antonia with a bit more weight in the legs and hips, basically like the pictures of Chelsea Wolfe. I think Antonia would be perfect as a starting point for a likeness morph. The body isn't really important moreso the likeness of facial features. The facial structures are very similar to start, much more so than say V4's default look or La Femme's... Anyway

Thanks.

Thanks so much, FVerbaas! I've syphoned them all up and will start studying them tonight. I imagine your avatar will come in very handy when I start making things with sleeves. For now I've just imported Antonia's mesh in the zero pose, which seems to work quite well. I took that little singlet/bralette I made back into Poser and played with it in the fitting room last night, but I think it would look better as a dynamic garment.

Do you have any tips for translating material properties from MD to Poser? Also, what's your recommended particle distance for exporting from MD when making Poser dynamic clothing?

@primorge: legs and hip width is usually accommodated easily and in dynamic garments even work better. Dressing an avatar with reduced size is much harder. I will reduce the avatar breast size and assume natural shape. That's one thing I learned since I made these garments: you have to mould the avatar breast area (or any soft area) to what it would be when the garment is worn. In real life soft body parts are shaped by the garment. In 3D it is the other way round.

@odf: MD material properties are difficult to 'translate' into Poser. MD uses different properties in u and v (weft and warp) directions. Originally u was weft and warp was v, and you changed the orientation of the fibers (the direction of the grain) by rotating the panel in the 2D view. Since MD5 or so orientation is an independent parameter. Poser has none such and uses same properties in all directions. MD supports non-linear properties (fabric properties are highly non-linear). Poser cloth room just uses linear. Last but not least: MD uses true strain, that is strain relative to vertex distance when pattern is flat. Poser uses strain relative to '3D zero'. That's why results from Poser cloth room tend to look saggy: any strain already baked into the zero mesh is amplified.

Then there are no determined properties for linen, wool knit or cotton. The library in MD is a brave attempt, but properties given there reflect measurements on new 'fresh from the loom' fabric. This may be acceptable for the fashion industry where the catwalk show is the highest degree of use, but it is totally wrong for the torn and stained mantle of the hero who after a long pursuit finally faces the dragon in a hot cave. In MD I always tweak the parameters until it looks the way I want. If I use the Poser cloth room I do same.

As for mesh density for export: I use 15 mm as a default for a normal garment. Higher densities make simulation times go through the roof if not kill Poser. For local details I sometimes go more dense. For large areas much higher. MD accepts up to 800 mm or so. This is a way to save model size for panels that do not bend. I used it for the large panels you may find in some models. I textured those with the pattern drawing so I could trace the panels. In present MD versions that is no longer necessary because you can set the pattern drawing as 2D background. The smallest curvature you can represent has a radius of about the particle distance.

I use quads for strings and ribbons. These will look wobbly when they are in tris.

Thanks @FVerbaas! That's very helpful.

@FVerbaas: I looked at those in MD last night. Very cool designs! I especially liked that asymmetric one. That's going to be perfect for when Antonia goes undercover at the villains lair in a 70s style retro spy movie. :-)

I think I'm learning a lot just from looking at a bunch of patterns that people have made and see how they drape. Watching a stream on the MD YouTube channel just now where someone's showing how to make a dinosaur plushy.

Glad you like them. They are old so pretty basic and therefore workable in the Poser cloth room.

I must have more in the vein of that asymmetric one. ;-). Will see if I can find them again.

Some more:

A simple 'latex' pant for Antonia. in MD10 format.

A Plied Skirt

A hood

I just could not resist ...

Thanks again for those! In the meantime, I tweaked my little underwear set for Antonia a bit and experimented with getting them into Poser. The panties don't seem to work so well as dynamic clothes, or maybe I just need to learn how to use the cloth room properly. On the other hand, I quite like the top as a conforming figure now. Conforming panties and dynamic top are next to try out, but I can already see it'll take me a long, long time to grok Poser clothing.

Are you using weight mapping? Weight mapping works a lot easier than the spheres and it copies easier to clothing.

Hmm, from memory I didn't like the way weight-mapped Antonia bends, so I kept using the original figure with the old joint-parameter system and the extensive JCMs. I'll have another look at Antonia WM shortly. I'm not particularly keen on making a bunch of JCMs again to make her bend the way I like, but I expect this time around it would be orders of magnitude easier because of better tools and a much better starting position. It's also possible that the rigging I tried out wasn't the final version.

Unless the clothing is extremely tight and sticky and fabric tensioned in zero position JCMs for human figures will not work too well for garments.

Well, the undies handle extremely well in the fitting room, and the JCMs seem to have transferred very nicely. I'll figure out other clothing as I go. It's a moot point because using a figure that doesn't bend realistically in order to make fitting clothes easier has never been and will never be an option for me. Probably one of the secrets to Antonia's lack of success. :-)

Argh, forget what I said. There's practically no poke-through, which is nice, but the fabric gets terribly wrinkly when posed. Clearly I have a lot to learn.

The fitting room works fine. It throws in weight mapping for sure. You may want to check whether it is not your JCMs making havock. Wrinkles are best addressed with the smooth weight brush in the joint editor.

Sure the figure is not always the best source for a clothing rig. It's joint parameters are set to emulate the bending of skin, which is totally different from fabric. Most fabric has way less stretch ability and much enhanced buckling ability than skin has. In smooth hanging pants of non-stretchy fabric bend the knee. In the pant leg the fabric does not stretch, but the folds at the knee extend almost up to the kneecap. The skin in way hardly folds up to an knee bend angle of 90 degrees. Also the figure body shape usually has concave areas that are spanned bij fabric, so will behave differently, and vertex weights projected into that area from the different sides may be very different.

One needs a dedicated clothing rig donor.

Clothing rig donor. Now there's an idea.

No offense but I think the weight mapped version bends are vastly superior to the JCMs bending in 1.2 standard. Let me know if you need any help with JCM creation, I was planning on creating some for her. Some that would correct some of the things that I feel are shortcomings in the original. It's rather easy to create JCMs that work in tandem with existing JCMs.

I once had the wild idea to make some suits of varying tightness, run simulations on them while the avatar makes the elementary arm and leg moves. Then from the vertex movements recorded find the location of the joint centres that best represent the motions, get weightmaps that best represent the vertex motions around the centres, and then finally find JCMs as the residuals by substracting the rig imposed motions from the ones determined by simulation. I decided to lock it up. Better for my sanity.

@primorge I just installed Antonia WM and I agree that she bends amazingly well. I don't know about vastly superior. There's no mesh breakage I can see, which is fantastic, but on the other hand we have the unavoidable rubber hose effect. I certainly wish I could have had that version as a starting point, but alas Poser did not support weight-mapping in my day.

A Coverall, onesie, or whatever:

Bag Dress.

Just a play thing; old style MD '.pac' garment file.

and a bolero with some ruffles:

That's it for now. Will be away from home for a while. When there is interest I can resume afterwards.

Thanks again, @FVerbaas! I'll let you know if I use any of those. The idea of turning MD simulations into weight maps and JCMs for Poser is not bad. It certainly sounds like much less work than writing a good cloth simulator from scratch (with the emphasis on good). Still, we have to pick our battles, if you excuse my language.

@primorge I might make some new JCMs if I get too annoyed with particular bends. Knees, elbows, hips and shoulders could all use some work in certain poses. So basically everything. :-) But no commitments. I'm just playing around and trying out stuff here and there. Of course I'm always happy to share if anyone's interested, and I'd certainly be very interested in any JCMs you might make.

I went ahead and made a simple demo with a thighs spread JCM that works in tandem with the pre-existing JCMs in Antonia 1.2 medium res.

The JCMs I created kick in when the thigh Spread (zrot) dial is turned to a value of 80°(spread -80° right thigh, 80° left thigh). It's one of the easier JCMs to create as it only involves slaving the morph to a single rotation, this is just for demo purposes... I'd do a more precise job on any final JCMs that I might make.

The link for the zip is below if anyone wants to test. Load Antonia 1.2, navigate to the Pose category in the library and find the relevant folder and apply the included injection pose. The JCMs are corrective morphs that act automatically when the left or right thighs are spread to up to 80°outward, which is about the absolute limit of such a bend.

ThZrot80JCM_INJ

Here's Antonia 1.2 standard as these bends appear at default...

Here's Antonia WM with these bends...

Here's my JCMs applied to Antonia 1.2 Standard, perhaps went a little aggressive but for demo purposes good enough... you can see the improvement over the first set of images when my JCMs are applied, comparable to the Weight mapped version. I've found that in most instances I can make most traditional weights figures bend about as well as any weight mapped figure with JCMs. Still in all weight mapping is more efficient...

I did however discover a couple of problems with Antonia's built in JCMs... I won't elaborate too much but it's things that would require a complete JCM reconstruction to fix. I know what the problem is, it's a problem that used to occur with Poser morphs up until I guess version 10... tiny translation errors which add up over time. It's since been resolved, at least in 11, I was so relieved to see that problem gone. Also there's a bit of a crease from multiple tight edge loops at the region where the thigh joins the buttocks... not much to be done about that. A smoothing and slight flatten morph soothes it a bit. The crease appears in standard and weight mapped, it's a topology thing.

...back to texture painting. Holding off on more morphing until the textures are done.

Personally, I prefer this pose for an Antonia mobility challenge, because unlike the splits it's one I can get into myself. :-D Antonia WM is on the left here, Antonia 1.2.0 on the right.

And I have to say I am a bit surprised at first when I saw your demo renders because Antonia 1.2.0 can actually do a pretty decent split. One just has to know how (hint: bends that are anatomically impossible tend to not have their own JCMs). Again, Antonia WM on the left for comparison.