ok, following question ...

i have a conforming clothing object (old M4 stuff) with some dependency morphs when the arm/shoulder is bend down. works perfectly fine for the clothing itself, means if i bend the arm/shoulder bone of the clothing. but if i conform the clothing to a figure and bend the arm/shoulder bone of the figure the automatic morphing doesn't work anymore, obviously because the bend value from the arm/shoulder bone of the conformed clothing stays at 0 even if it follows the bend of the figures bone.

how can i solve this ? and if it's possible to solve, is it also possible to save the clothing in a way it automatically works for future use ? i mean, so that i just can load / conform the clothing and it work without manually teaching a dependency every time i want to conform the clothing ?

the way the teaching of dependencies work i'm not sure if this is even possible, so anyone out there that can help ?

As far as I know, if you set up a dependency to be controlled by an actor of a figure that your figure is conformed to, when you save that to library it will always consider a same-named actor of whatever that figure is conformed to. Unless something buggy goes wrong, which happens at times and is far from my understanding lmao

that's the problem, i can't set up a dependency between the figures shoulder and the morph value of the conformed clothing. it just don't work, or i don't know how to do it correctly. the teaching only works if i do it inside the same figure and only in one direction, means i can teach the "shoulder bend" parameter of the clothing to control a morph of the clothing, so the source of the dependency is the "shoulder bend" parameter. but i can't set up a dependency that works in the opposite direction from the morph away to anything other ... :

stachelzelle posted at 3:35AM Tue, 17 August 2021 - #4425473

that's the problem, i can't set up a dependency between the figures shoulder and the morph value of the conformed clothing. it just don't work, or i don't know how to do it correctly. the teaching only works if i do it inside the same figure and only in one direction, means i can teach the "shoulder bend" parameter of the clothing to control a morph of the clothing, so the source of the dependency is the "shoulder bend" parameter. but i can't set up a dependency that works in the opposite direction from the morph away to anything other ... :

The morph in the clothing needs to be named the same as the morph in the figure. So if the figure's morph is "ShoulderDown" then the morph in the clothing also needs to be named "ShoulderDown". Easiest way is to use the "Copy Morphs From" option in the Figure menu and select the morphs you want copied, then they should all just transfer over to the clothing. They won't always look the greatest so you'll need to modify them. I've heard that it can be done without keeping names the same but I've never had success with that. You can then set up additional morphs in the clothing that are dependent on the jcms in the clothing if you want more customization.

http://www.nerd3d.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=22

http://www.posersoftware.com/documentation/12/Poser_Reference_Manual/Tools/Modifying/Value_Operations.htm

"copy morphs from" doesn't help because this isn't the issue. i've created an independent morph on the collar/shoulder area of the clothing and this morph is meant to increase it's value when the figures "shoulder" bends down ...

Looks like a value operation add to me. A superconformer. I only know this stuff from afar, I mess with JCMs a bit but not so much with clothing. One would wonder why I wasted the time to post those 2 links above.

primorge posted at 6:40AM Tue, 17 August 2021 - #4425485

Looks like a value operation add to me. A superconformer. I only know this stuff from afar, I mess with JCMs a bit but not so much with clothing. One would wonder why I wasted the time to post those 2 links above.

problem is i can't connect/address the "bend down" rotation dialer, your links describe how to link morph/master dialers to other morph dialers ... but this doesn't work with the rotation dialers, or at least i can't figure how ...

Again. I don't make clothing. Only a few simple conformers for figures I built myself. Much easier to work with your own figures. A morph that you want to dial in via a rotation requires the rotation as the master, so for example edit dependency of x rotate and slave the morph to the master rotation. But I think you know this. It seems you want to have a JCM in the clothing match a JCM in the figure. Copying the morphs is the easy part. Making the whole thing "superconforming" is more complicated. That's why I posted Nerd's tutorial above. In the tutorial he mentions a value operation add to be hacked into a cr2. The tutorial was written before the dependency editor was implemented in Poser. Such things can now be handled via the value operations tab of the dependency editor. I've only ever needed to use it when a JCM I create requires more than one simultaneous rotation to master a morph. Other than the information I've just given, as I've said I don't make clothing, it seems that this is what you want to do. Sometimes Nerd takes pity on us mere mortals and answers such queries over at the Poser 11 technical forum, very few people seem to want to share their knowledge of such tricks of the trade. It can be very frustrating. It's one of Poser's GLARING shortcomings.

It's my understanding that the fitting room should handle all of this, or so I've heard. It's all very vague. Maybe a clothing creator will chime in and elaborate further.

primorge posted at 7:09AM Tue, 17 August 2021 - #4425488

so for example edit dependency of x rotate and slave the morph to the master rotation. But I think you know this.

yeah i tried this, but only works inside the self figure, means i can slave the clothing morph to the shoulder rotation dial of the clothing ... but not to the shoulder rotation dial of the figure to which it's conformed. it just don't let me do that and if i try to use the value operations the rotaition dials doesn't show up as target. seems not possible the way i want it ... however, would just nice to have ... but since it's just for my personal use anyway, no big thing.

but in case someone shows up who know how to solve this, he may let us share in his wisdom ...

Don't give up. It's possible. Post your query at the 11 technical forum. Nerd is a moderator there. He basically invented this stuff ;)

primorge posted at 7:34AM Tue, 17 August 2021 - #4425493

Don't give up. It's possible. Post your query at the 11 technical forum. Nerd is a moderator there. He basically invented this stuff ;)

i thought i posted this in the technical forum, i'm sure i've created the thread with the button there ...

"yeah i tried this, but only works inside the self figure, means i can slave the clothing morph to the shoulder rotation dial of the clothing ... but not to the shoulder rotation dial of the figure to which it's conformed. it just don't let me do that and if i try to use the value operations the rotaition dials doesn't show up as target."

Open the dependency editor

Open the value operations tab

Create new value op

Value op add

Select actor ( drop down, actor/body part of anything in scene)

Select parameter (drop down, select parameter in selected actor)

sorrily this doesn't do anything ... which version you are using ? my value operations window looks slightly different ...

if i add the value operation to the figures shoulder and adress the morph from the cloth, it does nothing. if i add the value operation to the morph of the clothing i can't address the up-down dial from the figure, it's just not in the list ... only other morphs are available.

first you need to create the dependency from the main figure, the rotation you wish it to work from, open the dependency window. Now select the clothing, the body part containing the morph or from the Body if it is a FullBody Morph. Personally I like to add a Master dial for all of my morphs in the Body Group, but that's your choice.at the top of the dependency popup is a dial the controls the rotation you want to attach the morph to, set this to zero. Make sure your morph is set to zero. Now select the teaching button, when the dependency is "learning" use the dial to rotate the Main Figure body group to the desired point. Find your morph dial and set it to ONE. Set the dial in the dependency window to zero THEN set the morph dial in your clothing to zero. Click on the teaching dial to shut off the dependency "learning". Check your morph by rotating the dial in the dependency. If all is good you can close the dependency window.

If you are still having an issue send me you Skype, or Facebook messenger address via sitemail and I'll try and work the problem thru with you

Letterworks posted at 1:00PM Tue, 17 August 2021 - #4425508

first you need to create the dependency from the main figure, the rotation you wish it to work from, open the dependency window. Now select the clothing, the body part containing the morph or from the Body if it is a FullBody Morph. Personally I like to add a Master dial for all of my morphs in the Body Group, but that's your choice.at the top of the dependency popup is a dial the controls the rotation you want to attach the morph to, set this to zero. Make sure your morph is set to zero. Now select the teaching button, when the dependency is "learning" use the dial to rotate the Main Figure body group to the desired point. Find your morph dial and set it to ONE. Set the dial in the dependency window to zero THEN set the morph dial in your clothing to zero. Click on the teaching dial to shut off the dependency "learning". Check your morph by rotating the dial in the dependency. If all is good you can close the dependency window.

OMG ... it's working :D

thanks man, that was the order of actions i needed. looks like i thought it the wrong way from the beginning. now i feel stupid because it's so easy.

Not Stupid at all. I've had this conversation with a lot of people

So the problem was not creating the dependency properly? I assumed you had and it wasn't working. Talk about confusion. Especially since I just spent 2 hours beating my head against the value operations tab when all along it was just a typical keyed lol.

I'll add a little extra tidbit. If you have master sync activated when you teach the master back to 0 the slaved will automatically return to 0, no need to enter the value. Just click stop teaching.

This is in Poser 11 though, not sure what version OP is using.

@Letterworks. You wouldn't happen to be the same Letterworks that used to have the really in depth dynamic cloth tutorials site? If so are those pages still available somewhere?

stachelzelle posted at 6:37AM Wed, 18 August 2021 - #4425511

thanks man, that was the order of actions i needed. looks like i thought it the wrong way from the beginning. now i feel stupid because it's so easy.

Rule of thumb to remember: "when this happens, do that". So you start teaching, and then you first do what needs to happen first, then set up what you want to happen when that thing happens. :)

@Primaage, tho I've used the Letterworks Nick since Renderosity opened, that wasn't me, sorry. I've just recently started experimenting with dynamics again after after flirting with it when it fist came out.