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Subject: Show your Poser 13 renders!
Speaking of Post FX, I noticed that the rendered image, right after it's finished, jump's in the gamma value at least half a percent point up, meaning it gets brighter. Post FX is not enabled and all values are at default.
Might be my graphics card driver, or did someone else noticed this happen? Can't remember that this was an issue in Poser 12.
VinceBagna diamond shader, gold shader, table dark metal shader. Poser Ball with Light Bulb (the brightness can be adjusted better). All other lights dosn't work and the diamond get dark. The bigger the ball the more light!! I deactivated the polygon smoothing for the diamond, otherwise it looks like a glass bead. Depending on the positioning of the light ball, the color game also changes with some fabulous effects. Also you can change the colors in the shader menue.
I wouldn't be too concerned about graininess in the renders, it is actually preferred to give the scenes a little 'character'. Well done!Here a few test and Upgrades with emitter's I had to build so that they work universally for Superfly ( Optix Renders No Light's added ) you can open in new window to see it in full size .... To bad they got a little Grainy, will have to make a higher setup next time ....
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@hborre, the problem with what I described as a gamma jump is, I can't show it. Even if I stop the render close to finish, a second later the picture gets brighter. What are you referring to by an OS problem?
My OS is Windows 10 pro, latest build, installed last week, latest updates in place. Graphics cards driver is also fresh from Nvidia Web Side. Could it have something to do with the fact that my PC is nearly 13 years old? At least the CPU and the Mainboard is, other parts are not. I will reinstall Poser 12, to check if I missed this happening there also. Like I said, I only noticed it in Poser 13. Since I use quite a few render engines on the same PC, like cycle's in Blender or VRay in C4D, I think I had noticed if this happens there too.
Any suggestions?
vopehov506 posted at 7:04 PM Sun, 30 April 2023 - #4463869
I wouldn't be too concerned about graininess in the renders, it is actually preferred to give the scenes a little 'character'. Well done!Here a few test and Upgrades with emitter's I had to build so that they work universally for Superfly ( Optix Renders No Light's added ) you can open in new window to see it in full size .... To bad they got a little Grainy, will have to make a higher setup next time ....
Fantastic renders they show what is possible. On the subject of grain, I would agree with hborre that it does give renders a sense of character, how much grain is subjective but my personal view is most renders look better with some grain than without any.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
Nice, I like it and very good use of the VinceBagna shaders which I find so useful when trying to reuse older content with Superfly. For those that are not aware of the two shader sets from VinceBagna they cover a vast range of shaders such as Car Paint, Glass, Lights, Liquids, Metal, Plastic, Textile, Wood, Organic and Miscellaneous. There are even some bump maps added. With old content that simply does not not work well, or at all, with Superfly it is so easy to just replace the existing shader with the VB equivalent. It is the easiest way I have found to make use of old content.VinceBagna diamond shader, gold shader, table dark metal shader. Poser Ball with Light Bulb (the brightness can be adjusted better). All other lights dosn't work and the diamond get dark. The bigger the ball the more light!! I deactivated the polygon smoothing for the diamond, otherwise it looks like a glass bead. Depending on the positioning of the light ball, the color game also changes with some fabulous effects. Also you can change the colors in the shader menue.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
I've remarked that at the very moment when Poser releases the final picture, something is changing in the background, as if it's loosing some contrast, as if the background becomes lighter, this is particularly visible with a portrait on a rather dark background.@hborre, the problem with what I described as a gamma jump is, I can't show it. Even if I stop the render close to finish, a second later the picture gets brighter. What are you referring to by an OS problem?
My OS is Windows 10 pro, latest build, installed last week, latest updates in place. Graphics cards driver is also fresh from Nvidia Web Side. Could it have something to do with the fact that my PC is nearly 13 years old? At least the CPU and the Mainboard is, other parts are not. I will reinstall Poser 12, to check if I missed this happening there also. Like I said, I only noticed it in Poser 13. Since I use quite a few render engines on the same PC, like cycle's in Blender or VRay in C4D, I think I had noticed if this happens there too.
Any suggestions?
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blackbonner posted at 1:43 AM Mon, 1 May 2023 - #4463879
Happens here to just at the end of the render in superfly it completely changing the contrast. What happens in firefly is even worse making it unusable in Poser 13 there when the renders end it squish it together causing ugly borders, but only in the Poser view when saving the render it goes away. Still it makes look the final renders wrong in firefly so that until fixed it is of no use in P13. with the contrast change after finish one could live in P13 but the squish in firefly makes it unusable.@hborre, the problem with what I described as a gamma jump is, I can't show it. Even if I stop the render close to finish, a second later the picture gets brighter. What are you referring to by an OS problem?
My OS is Windows 10 pro, latest build, installed last week, latest updates in place. Graphics cards driver is also fresh from Nvidia Web Side. Could it have something to do with the fact that my PC is nearly 13 years old? At least the CPU and the Mainboard is, other parts are not. I will reinstall Poser 12, to check if I missed this happening there also. Like I said, I only noticed it in Poser 13. Since I use quite a few render engines on the same PC, like cycle's in Blender or VRay in C4D, I think I had noticed if this happens there too.
Any suggestions?
For me I do not bother as Firefly is fast and nice in P11 and I got the simple Material room. so P13 is for the moment just a option to make superfly renders. For creations Poser 11 is still essential and stable due all the Pythons that were created for this purpose . In such a case P13 is rather a expensive Render option for Superfly as for creators still will be bound on P11. But still a creator needs to get P13 to check if creations are compatible and alternative create some superfly materials.
It is a shame that it is not working for you, as you say that does make Poser 13 an expensive Superfly renderer. I am not seeing any issues with the render changing at the end of the render and, as I do not use Firefly these days, if there is a problem there I will not see it.blackbonner posted at 1:43 AM Mon, 1 May 2023 - #4463879
Happens here to just at the end of the render in superfly it completely changing the contrast. What happens in firefly is even worse making it unusable in Poser 13 there when the renders end it squish it together causing ugly borders, but only in the Poser view when saving the render it goes away. Still it makes look the final renders wrong in firefly so that until fixed it is of no use in P13. with the contrast change after finish one could live in P13 but the squish in firefly makes it unusable.@hborre, the problem with what I described as a gamma jump is, I can't show it. Even if I stop the render close to finish, a second later the picture gets brighter. What are you referring to by an OS problem?
My OS is Windows 10 pro, latest build, installed last week, latest updates in place. Graphics cards driver is also fresh from Nvidia Web Side. Could it have something to do with the fact that my PC is nearly 13 years old? At least the CPU and the Mainboard is, other parts are not. I will reinstall Poser 12, to check if I missed this happening there also. Like I said, I only noticed it in Poser 13. Since I use quite a few render engines on the same PC, like cycle's in Blender or VRay in C4D, I think I had noticed if this happens there too.
Any suggestions?
For me I do not bother as Firefly is fast and nice in P11 and I got the simple Material room. so P13 is for the moment just a option to make superfly renders. For creations Poser 11 is still essential and stable due all the Pythons that were created for this purpose . In such a case P13 is rather a expensive Render option for Superfly as for creators still will be bound on P11. But still a creator needs to get P13 to check if creations are compatible and alternative create some superfly materials.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
I am wondering how many are using that new Material Assignment room that replaced the simple version ?! I never used it as it seems to be rather uncomfortable.
This here was a little more challenging getting all the materials to work and built in lights, slowly building up material settings that can be loaded to other models, again jumping for saves of materials to P11 as there are good pythons that can be used creating these
Superfly optix render No postwork, No Lights .
>>>> @hborre, the problem with what I described as a gamma jump is, I can't show it. Even if I stop the render close to finish, a second later the picture gets brighter. What are you referring to by an OS problem?
@
DCArt Fair enough, it was my initial thought also. This was not the case. I'm currendly installing my OS, all drivers and programs again to see whats going on. To have something to compair Poser 13 renders to, I will also install Poser 12.
My guess is, that this behavior originates from the changes inside the Superfly render engine to make it faster wiith less iterations. Some post effects like the denoister or blur could be hard wired to the render engine under the hood, without showing in the actual PostFX Dialog. But thats just me and my opinion. Take it with a huge grain of salt.
Like I wrote above, could be a failior of my graphic card driver, or my old rig that signals that its time has come, I really don't know.
No post effects involved, on the left: just after Poser finishes its computing, on the right the final picture. I've caught this by recording a video
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I notice that as well and don't care for it. If it's going to be set as a default they should set in a slight contrast adjustment as well since brightening up each finished render can cause some of the details to fade a bit. Contrast would pop the colors and bring back in the stronger blacks.Speaking of Post FX, I noticed that the rendered image, right after it's finished, jump's in the gamma value at least half a percent point up, meaning it gets brighter. Post FX is not enabled and all values are at default.
Might be my graphics card driver, or did someone else noticed this happen? Can't remember that this was an issue in Poser 12.
---Wolff On The Prowl---
@
Y-Phil, this seems to confirm my observation. Is it time for a ticket to the developer board?
Thanks for the work you put into, the idea with the video is great.
It's not an OS issues, this is happening in Poser. I run Windows 11 fully up to date. NVIDIA drivers up to date as well.@hborre, the problem with what I described as a gamma jump is, I can't show it. Even if I stop the render close to finish, a second later the picture gets brighter. What are you referring to by an OS problem?
My OS is Windows 10 pro, latest build, installed last week, latest updates in place. Graphics cards driver is also fresh from Nvidia Web Side. Could it have something to do with the fact that my PC is nearly 13 years old? At least the CPU and the Mainboard is, other parts are not. I will reinstall Poser 12, to check if I missed this happening there also. Like I said, I only noticed it in Poser 13. Since I use quite a few render engines on the same PC, like cycle's in Blender or VRay in C4D, I think I had noticed if this happens there too.
Any suggestions?
---Wolff On The Prowl---
blackbonner posted at 9:28 AM Mon, 1 May 2023 - #4463911
Well, hborre may have given the response, who knows?@ Y-Phil, this seems to confirm my observation. Is it time for a ticket to the developer board?
Thanks for the work you put into, the idea with the video is great.
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NOPE honey, I have all that turned off as well. There is a noticeable brightening to each finished render!>>>> @hborre, the problem with what I described as a gamma jump is, I can't show it. Even if I stop the render close to finish, a second later the picture gets brighter. What are you referring to by an OS problem?
I haven't read through the entire thread so if this has already been mentioned, my apologies in advance. It sounds to me like you have PostFX enabled in the render settings dialog. In the SuperFly Render Settings tab, uncheck Apply Post Effects to Render.
---Wolff On The Prowl---
I just posted over at SLACK since I'm on the team to see what the feedback is about this. Maybe Tim or Charles will see the post. I also posted the link to page 21 of this thread so they can read through!
---Wolff On The Prowl---
Good Render,I am wondering how many are using that new Material Assignment room that replaced the simple version ?! I never used it as it seems to be rather uncomfortable.
This here was a little more challenging getting all the materials to work and built in lights, slowly building up material settings that can be loaded to other models, again jumping for saves of materials to P11 as there are good pythons that can be used creating these
Superfly optix render No postwork, No Lights .
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.
thank you hornet3d :) There just tests Atm so I can see where fixes need to be done, the way I see things is that also textures will have to improve big time in future for this engine. Not just the setup's these will be the least once generated Mat references but the textures will have to be built up in a total different way for it to get full potential.
I have been thinking about generating PBR material with the help of AI software. This is a little something I've been working on recently. It's the free Mausoleum found in the P13 runtime and I've completely textured the exterior with AI-generated images. You can see the repetitive pattern on the wall. Part of this project is to create new material groups for the figure, both interior and exterior, using the Grouping Tool and replace everything with PBR-friendly material textures.
I have played with the Material Assignment section and it has powerful potential. But, there are drawbacks. The feature handles PoserSurface- and PhysicalSurface-based material zones but will not apply Cycles-based nodes. I might report this and see if the techs can patch this. There is no way of copying and pasting to multiple groups at once, you can only do individual groups at a time which is a bit tedious but better than opening each zone in the material room. Otherwise, the feature responds well and quickly.I am wondering how many are using that new Material Assignment room that replaced the simple version ?! I never used it as it seems to be rather uncomfortable.
This here was a little more challenging getting all the materials to work and built in lights, slowly building up material settings that can be loaded to other models, again jumping for saves of materials to P11 as there are good pythons that can be used creating these
Superfly optix render No postwork, No Lights .
Personally, I think Poser tends to make the contrast a little too flat and these could be improved with PostFX, raise the contrast maybe to 0.1, possibly increase the exposure, to get more dynamic range. Possibly it's also that the light in the room is too uniform.Here a few test and Upgrades with emitter's I had to build so that they work universally for Superfly ( Optix Renders No Light's added ) you can open in new window to see it in full size .... To bad they got a little Grainy, will have to make a higher setup next time ....
I haven't noticed it myself, but I agree that if several people are experiencing it and can document it (as seems to be the case), a ticket should be written up. It's not only of benefit to the person writing the ticket, but to the rest of the community as well. It's arguably the only contribution I've ever made to the community, alas.I think a ticket may be in order if multiple individuals are experiencing the same issue. I have noticed it as well, and will be adding it to my bug report.
vopehov506 posted at 7:04 PM Sun, 30 April 2023 - #4463869Very true, The first times I do renders just with the emitters from the Models without adding lights, but lights sure should be used giving it more depth with harder shadows. Actually it is not really my style for rendering but trying does not hurt, at the end things can be combined. Once you figure out the right system the models should seem coming out of the scree like with 3D glasses :) In old times Photographs were capable of making portraits that seemed coming out of the Paper ....Personally, I think Poser tends to make the contrast a little too flat and these could be improved with PostFX, raise the contrast maybe to 0.1, possibly increase the exposure, to get more dynamic range. Possibly it's also that the light in the room is too uniform.Here a few test and Upgrades with emitter's I had to build so that they work universally for Superfly ( Optix Renders No Light's added ) you can open in new window to see it in full size .... To bad they got a little Grainy, will have to make a higher setup next time ....
Thank you, Jup sure noticed all the shine after rendering, superfly tends making stuff reflective quiet fast ! Like a housemaid that polished the whole rooms before taking the picture LOL Dolls look like they been treated with oil before the show .... All this causing allot of details to get lost. Naturally it is up to the artist finding the right balance as I think it should be possible. I made some shots with Displacements and bumps but results are often like one was hammering on the surface. Often seen on skin. For that zombie I used Space Tangent maps for the displacement seems to avoid that hammering effectVery nice!! Some advice, don't make the instruments too shiny new, it takes away the 'reality' from the scene. Incorporate wear and tear, dirt, smudges, discoloration, fingerprints, etc., and anything that shows credible usage and handling.
That is incredible! A dilettante's opinion on bright shiny instruments, if I may. Another reason to dull them down a little bit is that our eyes are attracted to brightness, if the background is too bright, it might pull the viewer's eye away from the foreground. Which can be good if that is the intent, but a distraction otherwise. That is one incredible image! Clearly, they didn't nail down its feet nearly well enough, because it got loose.This is the point when the power shows it's effects, Slowly getting a hang of it ! But still allot that could be done better .....
vopehov506 posted at 1:23 PM Mon, 1 May 2023 - #4463946:) I had the Lights lower at first had the same intention getting the background darker , the lights are around the whole lab on the walls but that was the point where I would of had to add a spotlight for the zombie as the room lights would not reach where he is standing. But you just gave me an Idea, using a flashlight of a unseen visitor that points right at the zombie, that might do the trick, so the lab lights could be turned down .... Poser got a dimmer ....That is incredible! A dilettante's opinion on bright shiny instruments, if I may. Another reason to dull them down a little bit is that our eyes are attracted to brightness, if the background is too bright, it might pull the viewer's eye away from the foreground. Which can be good if that is the intent, but a distraction otherwise. That is one incredible image! Clearly, they didn't nail down its feet nearly well enough, because it got loose.This is the point when the power shows it's effects, Slowly getting a hang of it ! But still allot that could be done better .....
At least decent eyebrows, still no bump, but I managed to have some gloss for the skin and far less for them.
I have some characters with a skin for the face that doesn't have the eyebrows, most have though
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vopehov506 posted at 1:23 PM Mon, 1 May 2023 - #4463946
That is incredible! A dilettante's opinion on bright shiny instruments, if I may. Another reason to dull them down a little bit is that our eyes are attracted to brightness, if the background is too bright, it might pull the viewer's eye away from the foreground. Which can be good if that is the intent, but a distraction otherwise. That is one incredible image! Clearly, they didn't nail down its feet nearly well enough, because it got loose.This is the point when the power shows it's effects, Slowly getting a hang of it ! But still allot that could be done better .....
Cycles/SuperFly and iRay are both physically-based renderers that work best with "Metallic-Roughness" PBR workflow, instead of specular/reflection and gloss like FireFly does. Totally different methods of rendering and material creation. Physical Surface and Cycles with Principled BSDF nodes are fully compatible with metal-rough PBR workflow and therefore recommended over PoserSurface if you want to do real PBR type stuff.
For metal, a setting of 0 (or pure black) will not be metallic at all. A setting of 1 (or pure white) will be fully metallic.
Ah, but there is more. What do you do if you want, say, brushed aluminum that has a scratchy surrface?
That's where roughness comes in. With a roughness map, 0 (or pure black) will be very glossy. 1 (or pure white) will be very "rough" and dry looking. Halfway (50% gray) will be somewhat satiny.
So ... you paint your brushed/damaged surface in a ROUGHNESS map (or the roughness channel of a procedural shader). The lighter the texture, the more "unshiny" it will be.
Here's a pretty decent example of an aged stainless steel material using metal-rough workflow. It has the "dirt" in the albedo (color) map, but then adds a roughness map for the "damage"
https://freepbr.com/materials/used-stainless-steel2/
Made some light changes, dimmed the lab lights and added a flashlight that points the zombie in the face from the corridor . Adding lights in certain cases sure enhances the render. Superfly render no postwork ( Right out of the Box ) Thank you for pointing it out that the last one was to Bright-Shiny :)
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That is the method I use as well, as you say the fact there is an original saved shows Post FX was applied.
I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 - Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU . The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.