She's not the best. I've spent 2 years saying she's not the best, just that she's good. But I guess that being contrary to the "OMG THE WORST FIGURE EVER" angry mob means I'm a blind fanatic. /shrug

The only thing we have said here is that people who don't like her are free to use something else. Is that fanatism? Wow.

(And honestly, "will fail because of the name" is bound to bring kneejerk reactions.)

Yup. I literally can't use L'Homme any more due to him being derived from a female mesh, proportions being all wrong and just generally having bad shoulders and hip to leg ration, all of which I voiced on this forum since it was coming out. La Femme is a good mesh, bends well and can be morphed to all sorts of beauties or uglies given the right texture and the existing morphs she has.

I am very curious to see how she was improved upon and what, if anything, is in store for L'Homme so he gets a bit more love.

I'm also on record to criticize how products are marketed for Poser and promo render quality (with the exceptions of a few) compared to what the other software is doing, and that goes back to quality control, NOT the quality of the base mesh.

Is that considered bashing or admiration I wonder.

Make up your mind, alt account of a likely previously banned person: do you think we're fanatics for defending her, or are you angry that we have any criticism of her? You're not making any sense.

Wonder why the Renders have been removed I just Posted , or was it just a glitch ? it is La femme BTW and no offensive Works ! So Posting them again .... La Femme with the New Owl-Helmet

Ah me ... look at all these posts ...

Whatever you do

someone (like me ,,)

will find fault.

What you need to do is ignore the anti posts and keep refining your offering and eventually (!) it might be accepted.

Humans are just bloody contrary creatures.

DownTown37 posted at 4:37 PM Sat, 22 July 2023 - #4470859

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 4:29 PM Sat, 22 July 2023 - #4470858

Make up your mind, alt account of a likely previously banned person: do you think we're fanatics for defending her, or are you angry that we have any criticism of her? You're not making any sense.

Is there something wrong with the La Femme renders ? Or the Helmet ? seems that this is also wrong Promoting La Femme with new Creations, Hope it is not because someone else is also making outfits for her .... 

No I'm not complaining about your renders or content at all. And that's a funny accusation there, considering I've been actively trying to get more vendors back into poser, LF and now LF2. However you might wanna check your sentence skills there, because it sounded like you were complaining that we had critiques about LF. And after having just accused us off being fanatics for LF, that made no sense.

Ah me ... look at all these posts ...

Whatever you do

someone (like me ,,)

will find fault.

What you need to do is ignore the anti posts and keep refining your offering and eventually (!) it might be accepted.

Humans are just bloody contrary creatures.

I like the fact that Poser is finally getting into versioned figures. It seems to have worked well for DAZ. I’ll definitely give LF 2 a try when she comes out, as well as Dawn 2.

Base LF2 is Poser 11+.

I really welcome the A pose. It is one step towards better clothing models and easier texturing of them.

Can't wait to load her into Jinny and fit her a wardrobe. 

After Posting these Renders with La Femme I got asked about the outfit used " DC-ASH for La Femme " so I wanted to point out where it can be found, I had to realize that the Creator DC-Art aka Deekey closed the whole store !? Is this  another Poser creator that left or is it just a change of the Artist name ? The Outfit does not seem to be sold any further. 

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/139872/dc-ash-for-la-femme-lite-and-pro

After Posting these Renders with La Femme I got asked about the outfit used " DC-ASH for La Femme " so I wanted to point out where it can be found, I had to realize that the Creator DC-Art aka Deekey closed the whole store !? Is this  another Poser creator that left or is it just a change of the Artist name ? The Outfit does not seem to be sold any further. 

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/139872/dc-ash-for-la-femme-lite-and-pro

DeeceyArt posted at 7:35 AM Mon, 24 July 2023 - #4470988

DownTown37 posted at 4:04 AM Mon, 24 July 2023 - #4470982

After Posting these Renders with La Femme I got asked about the outfit used " DC-ASH for La Femme " so I wanted to point out where it can be found, I had to realize that the Creator DC-Art aka Deekey closed the whole store !? Is this  another Poser creator that left or is it just a change of the Artist name ? The Outfit does not seem to be sold any further. 

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/139872/dc-ash-for-la-femme-lite-and-pro

I have retired from the Poser development team and Poser content creation. The store was closed because most of the products were older and weren't moving any more.

Well anyway the Outfit is top, there has not been many releases of this quality past few years for Poser.

having never really used LF, i can only speak to what my eyes tell me, and in many ways is at least somewhat subjective.

what i dislike about LF from a visual perspective [and somewhat regarding Maisie as well, since it looks to me they are cut from the same mesh] is:

her neck bends quite strangely

the shape of her mouth, and it seems to persist no matter who has tried to shape/morph it, relevant mostly to the outer quarter of her mouth on either side.

the weirdness & shape of her teeth, which look like those old Chiclet gum pieces

the flatness of her eyes no matter who has rendered her and what lighting has been used

the way her shoulders/armpit areas look rather unnatural with that exaggerated U-bend

the odd shape of her hands, esp. her fingers and the way they looked when bent

her flat feet, which leads me to think that both LF & Maisie were most likely spawned off the open source mesh of Pauline, who suffered the same flat footedness

the exceptionally large gap between the upper thighs [i'm a petite, thin female, so i have a natural gap when standing, so i've a pretty good sense of how this should look]

i've only run across maybe 2 vendors that have almost been able to take the baked-in look of LF out of their own created morphs, which is commendable, and what i'm having to assume is quite a feat since i can tell spot LF figures & images using LF from a mile away since she doesn't seem really able to be terribly versatile, and maybe easy to morph?, for most people.

now these things i'm mentioning are my thoughts & perspectives upon the version of LF most folks are currently using, so obviously not version-two-oh.  but i've looked at the Poser Pulse article about the newer upcoming version, and while there does seem to be some improvements visually, the heavily stylised look of her is still there.

for me, there just isn't enough versatility in terms of morphing her and making her unique enough where i can't tell it's some version of LF...

there just isn't enough versatility in terms of morphing her and making her unique enough

Yeah, she's right ya know... that hip to waist ratio is the reason we continue to use V4 lol

All figures have good and bad things. La Femme has several related products and allows artists to create beautiful work.

I share with you a render I made with the La Femme figure at the beginning of 2019.

She looks really wonderful 3Dream! 

Yes, La Femme has her flaws.  Nevertheless I like her :)  She's super easy to work with and does not feel as heavy and klunky as V4 even with morphs loaded.  She looks great once sub-divided.  I even like her smile!

LaFemme's weird default looks are actually the least of her problems.

(Although, I agree with everything Giana said. Especially her teeth I find to be quite  disturbing

Also, not everyone is a talented sculptor, so why burden a figure with a less than stellar look in the first place?)

*

But her real problems are "under her skin":

The rigging is overcomplicated, while the mesh topology is simplistic.

Here's LaFemme vs V3WM with their right thighs posed Side-Side -45° and Bend -145°:

To add insult to injury, LaFemme features 14 (In words: FOURTEEN) JCMs located in her thigh. Each one supposed to make her bend better.

V3WM on the other hand has........NONE.

While A FEW JCMs are certainly necessary for good rigging, each additional JCM adds overhead to a figure.

It makes a figure slower to compute for Poser, her cr2 more likely to break, and makes her harder to morph into different shapes. (As JCM's are very shape-specific)

Additionally, the cr2 not only has to contain the "raw" JCM morph data, but also all the complicated instructions to tell Poser what to do with the JCM.

So, to put it simply:

While JCMs cannot be completely avoided, the LESS JCMs, the better.

All the worse if the end result still doesn't look convincing, despite all those JCMs.

Like in this case.

*

Then there's the mesh topology.

If the geometry doesn't properly "flow" around muscle groups and body detail, then ANY additional detail has to be "faked" by additional mesh subdivision and/or displacement maps.

(Currently, Superfly can't use displacement maps, so subdivision is the only option if you prefer that renderer.)

As an example, to achieve enough body detail, Blackhearted had to subdivide LaFemme so often that the final morph is nearly HALF A MILLION POLYGONS.

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/134938/femme-fatale-hd-morphs-for-la-femme

Despite what the advertising suggests, THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING.

Because every additional polygon WILL SLOW POSER DOWN!

This is especially tragic as proper mesh design would allow THE EXACT SAME LEVEL OF DETAIL with a fraction of that polygon count.

Look at Blackhearteds "Irina 2.0" for comparison. IMO his best work. She's based on SP3, and because SP3 has excellent edgelooping right from the start, he didn't need to use any subdivision to achieve a comparable sculpt.

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/30687/irina-20

So for any 500.000 polygon "Femme Fatale", you could have seven 70.000 polygon Irinas in your scene!

*

So, in my book, it's not (so much) LaFemmes goofy face or unrealistic default body shape, but her fundamental technical flaws why I completely reject her.

Poser is a hobbyists program, designed for people with less technical knowledge and consumer grade computers.

So EFFICIENCY is a very big part of figure design.

Make every polygon count. Optimize every weightmap before thinking of adding a JCM.

Don't think about your own "creative vision" or the "latest greatest" trends in CGI.

Create a figure FOR Poser and especially with the typical Poser users in mind.

Robust, versaitle, easy to use.

Poser CAN do so much better than a figure like LaFemme suggests.

You, we all, are selling Poser (and ourselves) short if we let a figure like La Femme being "The face of Poser"

*

But as they say:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"

The "Toxic positivity" crowd will again lament that setting even basic standards in figure design is inherintly unfair and all what a Poser figure needs is a vaguely human shape and some pretty face morphs.

And of course lots of enthusiastic support!

And that the malaise we're in is just an evil DAZ conspiracy, anyway.

*

Oh well, let's see what "new and improved" LF2 brings to the table.

LOL!

Well, as you touched on such a specific matter, I can show you LF2's FULL list of JCMs, to sate some curiosity:

(notice that her shoulders and Thighs don't activate any JCM at all when rotated in just one axis, mind you.)

Look I haven bitten my tongue here for a long while but I really have to get something off of my chest. I was involved with LaFemme and L'Homme' builds. They were never advertised as the end all and be all of poser much less 3D figures since unimesh was being promised even back then. Tehy were offered as an alterative for the poser edition at that time (NOTE ALTERNATIVE, NOT PERFECT Replacements). L'Homme in particular was to be a MORPH of LaFemme (Sound familiar G9?). 

Honestly I've NEVER Been particularly attracted to ANY Poser/Daz figure out of the box. How can a generic figure meet most , much less everyones taste? I mean if that were the case why are there so many morphed characters?

As far as bashing ANY figure that ANYONE takes the time and effort to create, for those of you that don;t realize it the mere effort is very great and I for one prise ANYONE willing to take that time and effort to create something that is, from all of my years with Poser and this site, virtually certain to do nothing if not find a massive amount to negativeity and complaining (even if it hasn't come out and NO ONE not involved even knows that is going on) 

There will NEVER be a figure that is suitable to everyones desires! It can't be done! In the meantime if you think figure creation had it peak with V3/4 god bless you and have fun, If you think DS and the generation figures are the gift of the gods, again have fun. If you can;t find ANYTHING that suits youthen get to work and create your oen figure... or at least a morph of any thing close to make you happy! If that doen;t work for you, hire a team to create your dream models for you! And if that's even too much trouble then I can only suggest you find another hobby.

In the mean time applaud the efforts of those that are willing to put many many hours into working on, refining, testing and refining some more, into something, all but guarenteed to bring about almost nothing but whining and complaining, and NEVER, EVER make enough money to even break even.  Just remember Charma is a bitch and what goes around comes around... when you least expect it.

Look I haven bitten my tongue here for a long while but I really have to get something off of my chest. I was involved with LaFemme and L'Homme' builds. They were never advertised as the end all and be all of poser much less 3D figures since unimesh was being promised even back then. Tehy were offered as an alterative for the poser edition at that time (NOTE ALTERNATIVE, NOT PERFECT Replacements). L'Homme in particular was to be a MORPH of LaFemme (Sound familiar G9?). 

Honestly I've NEVER Been particularly attracted to ANY Poser/Daz figure out of the box. How can a generic figure meet most , much less everyones taste? I mean if that were the case why are there so many morphed characters?

As far as bashing ANY figure that ANYONE takes the time and effort to create, for those of you that don;t realize it the mere effort is very great and I for one prise ANYONE willing to take that time and effort to create something that is, from all of my years with Poser and this site, virtually certain to do nothing if not find a massive amount to negativeity and complaining (even if it hasn't come out and NO ONE not involved even knows that is going on) 

There will NEVER be a figure that is suitable to everyones desires! It can't be done! In the meantime if you think figure creation had it peak with V3/4 god bless you and have fun, If you think DS and the generation figures are the gift of the gods, again have fun. If you can;t find ANYTHING that suits youthen get to work and create your oen figure... or at least a morph of any thing close to make you happy! If that doen;t work for you, hire a team to create your dream models for you! And if that's even too much trouble then I can only suggest you find another hobby.

In the mean time applaud the efforts of those that are willing to put many many hours into working on, refining, testing and refining some more, into something, all but guarenteed to bring about almost nothing but whining and complaining, and NEVER, EVER make enough money to even break even.  Just remember Charma is a bitch and what goes around comes around... when you least expect it.

WOW... respect the word!  And it's true.  If uou don't like the base, morph it and be happy!  Or just go away if you are going to do nothing but bitch and complain and compare.  All my paltry efforts at making characters from the L'Homme base to me they look NOTHING like L'Homme.  I did that with Genesis 8 as well as other figures.  It's fun and it's gratifying.  Wanting perfection out of the box?  You won't find it with any figure.  That's what morph packs are for so you can create your own special look for your characters.  As for bends, if folks are so unhappy with the bends then try to make your own JCM's.  Trust me, they are not easy to make, I avoid them as much as I can but sometimes I have to buckle down and make them for eye blinks and other areas.  Less is more, I do agree but they are a necessary evil!  

WTF? Any figure twisted into a pretzel is going to break SOMEWHERE. How many times are people going to make real world art/images with the figure's feet pinned behind her ears? People, stop being ridiculous.

What many people don't seem to understand is that a base figure is always a tradeoff. And nothing more.

Do you want a low poly one? Then use a low poly one. Poser includes a few.

Do you want one that bends very well? Well, you could do that with Pauline Advance, if you bought it when she was still for sale.

Personally I don't think many figures bend that good. She could bend into any position you felt like putting her in. very well.....

Do you want a figure people made tons of content for? Well, Pauline is obviously not your go to figure then, is she?

Pauline Advance worked fine for a very twistable figure. It wasn't even that hard to convert clothes to her.

Many did not buy it, even after claiming they wanted a figure that bent that good and could be tied into a knot.

Bending good is not the end all to a Poser figure. Neither is topology, etc, etc...

What makes a figure the best for the scene, is one that fits what your trying to actually achieve. And nothing more.

Pauline Advance was based on what people stated they wanted out of a weight mapped figure in Poser.

Hundreds of people had input into what they wanted done to her.... hundreds, and it was all in a public forum....

And guess what, people found issue in it that never mentioned anything about Pauline, and it is Pauline with different rigging and a base morph set.

The vast majority of the people that did find issue with it, never even had it.....

I have been involved with basically every Poser figure that came with Poser since Poser 9 in some way. Large or small. Done multiple rerigs, and have been involved with many, many other Poser figures as well.

I made hundreds of game characters, some times as many as 7 or 8 different versions of the same figure for z swapping.

I would never claim that a Poser or a game figure has to have a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i...z... Because that is complete bullshit.....

It only has to do, what it needs it to do, in that scene. You can never do it all with one figure, unless you do all the work on it to fit your needs, yourself.

Poser has hundreds if not thousand of figures that were made for it, for that very reason.... People made them to fit their needs, not yours, not mine.

Instead of complaining about figures, try supporting them and making them better with support for a change.

And if your a self proclaimed expert in figures? Where are the ones you released? And how many?

That's what I thought.... Not a single ground up figure from the vast majority of the "experts".....

The most that many of the experts can claim, is a simple re-rig that had little thought into limb length and shape when bent...

Who cares if it bends "self proclaimed expert perfectly" and the limb is to long when bent......

Who cares if the bends are "self proclaimed expert perfectly smooth", and it is murder to rig clothes for....

Who cares if it bends "self proclaimed expert perfectly smooth", but no one actually bends like that, so..............

Who really cares how it bends in a program that anyone can make correction morphs in a matter of seconds....

Who cares what someone wants, when that someone wont ever support the figure anyway.............. 

I will tell you who....

People that do nothing but cut up everything others do, while doing nothing to make it any better....

The same ones, that don't support Poser figures.....

If you don't want to use the new LF or convert things you already own, then stop your "I don't want to" and just DON'T use her. Nobody is twisting your arm.
Use LF 1.2, V4, or whatever rocks your boat - it really is that simple! You don't need to inform the rest of the community about your choice; we can see it when we check the galleries.

Constructive criticism, I am sure would be welcome, which stomping the floor like a kid while going "I don't want to" is NOT.

Question: In your sincere opinion and given the growing presence of artificial intelligence*, in 2023, what kind of commercial products for La Femme and L'Homme will be relevant to create?

* - Artificial intelligence is increasingly easily accessible and making a huge presence in the creation of texts, images, videos with all kinds of characters, accessories, hair, clothes, objects, surrounding scenarios, lighting, realism, toon, anime , adult images, etc., etc., etc. Anyone who is minimally informed about the countless applications and countless websites that use artificial intelligence can very easily make very appealing images and videos and even completely free of charge.

"All my paltry efforts at making characters from the L'Homme base to me they look NOTHING like L'Homme."  NOT TRUE. I created any character I want without problem. I am hobbyist and do not use commercial systems like Zbrush,  whereas LH face geometry is very suitable for Blender sculpting.

See, this is why pure end users who just want to make pretty images and have fun stop coming here.

@3Dream: workday's starting but will try to respond to you with something, that's a very good question.

3Dream posted at 2:30 AM Fri, 28 July 2023 - #4471324

Question: In your sincere opinion and given the growing presence of artificial intelligence*, in 2023, what kind of commercial products for La Femme and L'Homme will be relevant to create?

* - Artificial intelligence is increasingly easily accessible and making a huge presence in the creation of texts, images, videos with all kinds of characters, accessories, hair, clothes, objects, surrounding scenarios, lighting, realism, toon, anime , adult images, etc., etc., etc. Anyone who is minimally informed about the countless applications and countless websites that use artificial intelligence can very easily make very appealing images and videos and even completely free of charge.

I have perfectly normal everyday relatives and friends who spend hours on AI sites generating fantasy and sci-fi versions of themselves.  Not one, not two, not four. 

And, forgive me for saying this, but quite a few vendors (with obvious exceptions) need to learn to make promo renders that are on par with what DAZ products show. Use  the free or off the shelf products available at the marketplace HERE to make promos that are not flat, obviously made with either default lights or lighting that was made for Poser before even SSS came around... 

Thank you for the question, and for listening.

People, please keep this thread on topic and no personal attacks

So, to answer the question here: fantasy and sci-fi type clothing and props. AI generated images that I see a lot and which are encroaching into the Poser and DAZ space are ones from that category. Both programs are well saturated in the everyday wear and what I call 'skankwear' category. Historical/fantasy type clothing that covers the body, and sci-fi clothing are all over the 'other site' for Genesis. Why aren't they made for Poser? 

Because there are very few creators left making stuff for poser and that kind of thing is very hard to do. Besides, almost nobody purchases dynamic clothing, and big dresses don't work decently without that.

With folks like jroulin creating scripts for dynamic draping it should be getting easier and easier but admittedly I RARELY use dynamics.  MUCH easier in DS but again, rarely used it there either.  It's too bad because some really gorgeous gallery images make use of dynamics for really realistic results.  BUT then again making dynamics easier in Poser is more for a Poser discussion, this is about La'Femme 2.0 (or it was about her LOL) 

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:15 AM Fri, 28 July 2023 - #4471344

Rhia474 posted at 8:35 AM Fri, 28 July 2023 - #4471339

So, to answer the question here: fantasy and sci-fi type clothing and props. AI generated images that I see a lot and which are encroaching into the Poser and DAZ space are ones from that category. Both programs are well saturated in the everyday wear and what I call 'skankwear' category. Historical/fantasy type clothing that covers the body, and sci-fi clothing are all over the 'other site' for Genesis. Why aren't they made for Poser? 

Because there are very few creators left making stuff for poser and that kind of thing is very hard to do. Besides, almost nobody purchases dynamic clothing, and big dresses don't work decently without that.

Looking forward for LF 2 . Great to hear her rigging is better now. Have to admit, I created a few outfits for LF , but give up on rigging. Hate rigging anyways and her complex and difficult rigging made me cry. So the outfits still sit on my HD , which is a shame.

never could understand this. Love Dynamic clothes. Dresses, skirts even shirt and pants fall more natural. I remember the times with the Fantasy Dress, frustrating at best. 

Looking forward for LF 2 . Great to hear her rigging is better now. Have to admit, I created a few outfits for LF , but give up on rigging. Hate rigging anyways and her complex and difficult rigging made me cry. So the outfits still sit on my HD , which is a shame.

Hang on to them, they might be pretty easy to convert to LF2 :) and if you have P13, rigging should be much easier now.

TheAnimaGemini posted at 10:11 AM Fri, 28 July 2023 - #4471347

never could understand this. Love Dynamic clothes. Dresses, skirts even shirt and pants fall more natural. I remember the times with the Fantasy Dress, frustrating at best. 

Looking forward for LF 2 . Great to hear her rigging is better now. Have to admit, I created a few outfits for LF , but give up on rigging. Hate rigging anyways and her complex and difficult rigging made me cry. So the outfits still sit on my HD , which is a shame.

Hang on to them, they might be pretty easy to convert to LF2 :) and if you have P13, rigging should be much easier now.

Might even not need the modeler, depending on the outfit. We have some tools incoming ;)

Might even not need the modeler, depending on the outfit. We have some tools incoming ;)

Also the belt and her shirt is I guess a candidat for the modeler.

Also the belt and her shirt is I guess a candidat for the modeler.

TheAnimaGemini posted at 11:06 AM Fri, 28 July 2023 - #4471355

Also the belt and her shirt is I guess a candidat for the modeler.

Oohoo that looks great!!

Snazzy!!   Those boots would be great on L'Homme 2 when he's ready as well!  

subthread from a day or two ago ......

Dynamic draping ... one teacher said something 50 years ago that stuck: "A still image must be composed as if an instant in a flow of action. Visualize what happened right before the pose, and right after."  This means the clothing has to sing that song. It has to drape.

V4/Sasha16 turned out in arabesque attitude allongée. Dynamic gown: Nuisette #3 by carib98. Firefly render.

::::: Opera :::::

Snazzy!!   Those boots would be great on L'Homme 2 when he's ready as well!  

subthread from a day or two ago ......

Dynamic draping ... one teacher said something 50 years ago that stuck: "A still image must be composed as if an instant in a flow of action. Visualize what happened right before the pose, and right after."  This means the clothing has to sing that song. It has to drape.

V4/Sasha16 turned out in arabesque attitude allongée. Dynamic gown: Nuisette #3 by carib98. Firefly render.

::::: Opera :::::

Amazing!! Back to our topic: I would be more inclined to buy the new Poser release if it had something like https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/127770/project-evolution-one included as a bonus, with Poser, even if for a limited time. The only Poser figure that's not V4, that made me say "WOW!" Look at the vendor's gallery here: https://www.renderosity.com/users/erogenesis/gallery

Concidering she isn't a Bondware product, and priced at $30.00 a pop, I doubt you'll see that (PS $30 isn;t an unrealistic price point to me!) Also I bought her and tried her once or twice but if you aren;t a fan of JCM and adjustments to get the right look she's probably not for you. An Amazing figure for highly realistic work just a bit too much for the average hobbiest. I do applaud the work erogenesis put into her, she was obviously a labor of love to get the exact figure he was looking for. As I said if none of the current figures fits your preferences MAKE, BUY or hisr someone to MAKE one that does!

It is unlikely she will come as a bonus, for various reasons, but regarding PE: The USD 30 is an absolute bargain for this full fledged figure, coming with a versatile hair figgure and a load of characters.

There is also a content dev package, available at CGBytes. 

In freestuff here at Rendo there is a/o:

- a selection of conforming garments 

- a 'bridge' to Marvelous Designer 7-9 for wide draping garments

- a pose conversion tool to convert V4 poses (works fine for V3 abs V2 poses also)

But let's keep this discussion focused on La Femme and her version 2.

On a general point I can see where Joepublic is coming from, one of his needs is to keep the computing requirements low, but I think that ship has sailed.

The need for an ideal mesh with minimum polys and perfect edgeloops became less critical many years ago (outside the world of Poser).
The final component was Pixar's subdivision becoming a standard with it's cross-platform edge-weighting, meaning that many edgeloops are no longer required!

So you can build a mesh less for anatomy and more for high levels of clean subdivision.

Is this yet another thing that has to wait for Unimesh?

I think Shvrdavid got a bit side-tracked with the phrase 'out of the box'.
To be fair, to get to what we're calling a "Base" in Poser...
G9 first requires you to dial in a shape: male, female, werewolf... whatever!
Then give it one of the skins, it comes with male or female.

(I won't post renders here, obviously, check my gallery if you want to see my attempts.)

I won't discuss g9 here - we don't want to see me ranting against what DS does yet again.

operaguy posted at 9:13 PM Fri, 28 July 2023 - #4471395

subthread from a day or two ago ......

Dynamic draping ... one teacher said something 50 years ago that stuck: "A still image must be composed as if an instant in a flow of action. Visualize what happened right before the pose, and right after."  This means the clothing has to sing that song. It has to drape.

V4/Sasha16 turned out in arabesque attitude allongée. Dynamic gown: Nuisette #3 by carib98. Firefly render.

::::: Opera :::::

Anim8dtoon