Has been a while since Bondware made the first announcement of Poser 14

Jan 19, 2024 at 04:48 pm

Silence rules since this first announcement almost 4 month ago !

Preview, tesselation, continuing unimesh work are all interesting steps forward IMO. Would be really great if some Gaussian style effects could be brought to preview rendering styles for more versatile NPR realtime effects.

How about an upgrade to the MORPH TOOL or some other minor mesh editing options. I would love to see some basic Boolean operations like Subtract, Union, Combine, and so forth. Even if it's only for non-rigged items, it would be VERY useful.

Would be great if when rendering animations there would be an option to 'skip existing images',,, imagine that you just click render and it fills in the blanks and/or continues from where you left off without having to queue up multiple sessions, its been in other software for ages, also 'object motion blur' without blurring everything that moves in the entire scene,,, and how about soft selection in poser native cloth sims it would enable simple soft-body physics... everything you need is already there, I was doing it in MAX with the same software a quarter century ago... I know the 'other' sim option has soft selection, but that's the suck-iest POS software ever devised to frustrate even the most patient among us... LOL

As a program mainly used to setup scenes, it would be great to have some kind of Boolean operations on objects: imagine you kind of "dig" an object using another one  (or add tops: kind of mixing two things), be it using the morph tool or using the material setting. Bryce use to have this, and it was fun to dispose of such a tool.

A kind of Morph tool on steroids, with not only a simple more or less blurred circle but any shape, any 3D object.

Two other features that would be easy to implement, and really cool:
- a way to filter a selected folder in the library window
- a way to search only in a selected runtimes, instead of all

and the many features (at least part of it) that are available with the underlying database manager (regex, or part of it such as the use of jokers, etc...)

Agree that Boolean operations on objects would be a great addition

Also if it could include some basis clothing for La Femme2, such as

supplied for Alyson,Jessie, etc.

I would like to have a function in the library search that leads you back to the position in the column were you picked the folder and opened it, instead of always being pushed to the top of the folder column and have to scroll all the way down again. Searching the Library by pressing a letter would also be a nice thing to have.

PLEASE add Boolean operations.

And it is LONG past time that you expand the Memory Dots. Increase them to either 16 or 20 AND add ability to either color code each dot or add notes (or both). Maybe you could name the dot and have that appear as you hover over it, like a tooltip.

And PLEASE add Lights Dots.

mmitchell_houston posted at 5:46 AM Wed, 22 May 2024 - #4485142

And PLEASE add Lights Dots.

Lights dots? interesting idea. In between, I'm using groups of lights, and using a script I turn them on/off by group:

Y-Phil posted at 4:17 PM Wed, 22 May 2024 - #4485157

mmitchell_houston posted at 5:46 AM Wed, 22 May 2024 - #4485142

And PLEASE add Lights Dots.

Lights dots? interesting idea. In between, I'm using groups of lights, and using a script I turn them on/off by group:

There is already a 3rd party script for light dots, and it is GREAT. But honestly,  this feature is LONG  OVERDUE

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/149334/light-dots-for-poser-12

hi,

I have been a user since Poser 3, and I deeply regret the disappearance of PoserFusion!

...

For Poser 14, is native Apple Silicon on the list?

Any solution for that notorious skating effect with character animations in sight?

The day Poser adopts the subscription model is the day that I uninstall Poser.

One huge step that would be an awesome enhancement: completely rethink the way the detection works.
For example: consider a scene in a living room, with quite a lot of stuff around, plus a few objects outside the room.
Now, you're working on your characters hand, using the direct manipulation tool: 

Sometimes, the detection can't "see" neither the blue, nor the red, nor the green ring.
Worse, the detection often check for objects far beyond the currently selected character

Definitely missing here: a better priority management 

Cancel the Call Home security nuisance/"feature"

Y-Phil posted at 11:22 AM Sat, 18 May 2024 - #4484959

As a program mainly used to setup scenes, it would be great to have some kind of Boolean operations on objects: imagine you kind of "dig" an object using another one  (or add tops: kind of mixing two things), be it using the morph tool or using the material setting. Bryce use to have this, and it was fun to dispose of such a tool.

A kind of Morph tool on steroids, with not only a simple more or less blurred circle but any shape, any 3D object.

You can actually use the Boolean operations Feature imposer via the octane rendering engine plug-in. If you're interested in better renders.

Main thing I always wanted to get improved was the animation panel.

I animate for various companies now including medical companies. 

Uncanny_Film posted at 1:39 PM Fri, 26 July 2024 - #4487767

Y-Phil posted at 11:22 AM Sat, 18 May 2024 - #4484959

As a program mainly used to setup scenes, it would be great to have some kind of Boolean operations on objects: imagine you kind of "dig" an object using another one  (or add tops: kind of mixing two things), be it using the morph tool or using the material setting. Bryce use to have this, and it was fun to dispose of such a tool.

A kind of Morph tool on steroids, with not only a simple more or less blurred circle but any shape, any 3D object.

You can actually use the Boolean operations Feature imposer via the octane rendering engine plug-in. If you're interested in better renders.

Thank you for the info but I've stopped using Octane, as well as HDR Light Studio, by far too expensive for the hobbyist that I am. And honestly, the difference in speed is not an argument anymore.

keppel posted at 8:29 AM Mon, 15 July 2024 - #4487368

The day Poser adopts the subscription model is the day that I uninstall Poser.

As long as its only optional and they don't remove perpetual licenses like Adobe did its not bad.  That just means people who can't afford the big price tag have the option to try it out.

Uncanny_Film posted at 1:42 PM Fri, 26 July 2024 - #4487768

Main thing I always wanted to get improved was the animation panel.

Absolutely agree!  That is all I use Poser for too and its an area that definitely needs some love.  Especially considering the GUI slowdowns that have come over the years.  For example the Animation Palette is lightening quick when I go back to Poser Pro (7) but these days there is a long delay/lag we have to wait for every single time we try to arrow through frames.  it makes the process a bit frustrating.  Especially for more complicated scenes.  I almost need to go back to older Poser just to do the main animation work and then bring it into modern Poser to finish it up.  Id rather keep it all in one place.

As for boolean operations: that would require manifold ( a.k.a. 'watertight') shapes, so meshes in which each facet edge meets exactly one other facet edge. For non-manifold objects you cannot say what is 'inside' and what is 'outside' of the mesh. Meshes of objects in Poser in general are not manifold. If you have ever tried to 3D print a Poser figure you will know what I mean.

Latest development update Jan, 19th.

Y-Phil posted at 4:17 PM Wed, 22 May 2024 - #4485157

mmitchell_houston posted at 5:46 AM Wed, 22 May 2024 - #4485142

And PLEASE add Lights Dots.

Lights dots? interesting idea. In between, I'm using groups of lights, and using a script I turn them on/off by group:

A Lights group is a very solid idea. I might need to try that in my next scene and see if it improves development speed.

Another thing I would like to see is the ability to increase the character count for added lights and cameras. Being Limited to 32 characters makes it difficult to add meaningful descriptions to new items.

One very simple feature, easy to implement:

It's trivial to map between Poser's vert order and the original OBJ vert order. 

When exporting OBJ, a checkbox for "export original OBJ with current shape" would be easy using that map.

I do this right now as a blender add-on.  It takes a split second.  There are 3 meshes needed: original, zero'd poser ordered (used to map the vert map), morphed poser ordered (vert positions in poser order).  The add-on takes those and produces a copy of the original but with vert positions from the 3rd (using the vert map).

I use the trick of being able to dict key using the vert x,y,z.  I even allow a precision, but thankfully Poser doesn't mess with that during figure creation.  The poser ordered verts have the same xyz as the original, just a different index.

Since poser has access to all of that, it's just a matter of calculating the map and using it during export.

I was going to keep the map inside the Object (as a property) since it only needs to be calculated once.  But it's actually nearly as fast to calculate as it is to read the property. And being "calculated on use" keeps it real :)

By being able to export a morphed original OBJ (usually unimesh), a lot of what people want unimesh for would be achieved.  Without any changes to the underlying figure system and with an amount of code that could be written by a single person in a single day. :)

unrealblue posted at 5:14 PM Sat, 28 September 2024 - #4489837

One very simple feature, easy to implement:

It's trivial to map between Poser's vert order and the original OBJ vert order. 

When exporting OBJ, a checkbox for "export original OBJ with current shape" would be easy using that map.

I do this right now as a blender add-on.  It takes a split second.  There are 3 meshes needed: original, zero'd poser ordered (used to map the vert map), morphed poser ordered (vert positions in poser order).  The add-on takes those and produces a copy of the original but with vert positions from the 3rd (using the vert map).

I use the trick of being able to dict key using the vert x,y,z.  I even allow a precision, but thankfully Poser doesn't mess with that during figure creation.  The poser ordered verts have the same xyz as the original, just a different index.

Since poser has access to all of that, it's just a matter of calculating the map and using it during export.

I was going to keep the map inside the Object (as a property) since it only needs to be calculated once.  But it's actually nearly as fast to calculate as it is to read the property. And being "calculated on use" keeps it real :)

By being able to export a morphed original OBJ (usually unimesh), a lot of what people want unimesh for would be achieved.  Without any changes to the underlying figure system and with an amount of code that could be written by a single person in a single day. :)

Colorcurvature's PML scripts do this, unfortunately only works in Poser 11 and below. Also very useful because it allows such export import process to any modeler or sculpting app instead of strictly being tied to Zbrush GoZ monopoly. You can export your model in a posed and morphed state, morph over that and return a result that is a FBM difference, that is the result does not have the original morph or pose deformations baked into the result but working with over top. Very useful for JCM and expression morphs and many other things besides. 

This functionality should just be built into Poser's obj exporter. I don't know the reason why it isn't, why it's tied to Zbrush alone, or why it's the sole realm of 3rd party scripts/plug ins. If one python coder can figure out how to do this, and it's a vital part of a figure development workflow, why isn't this just included with Poser content creation functionality?

>>> This functionality should just be built into Poser's obj exporter. I don't know the reason why it isn't, why it's tied to Zbrush alone, or why it's the sole realm of 3rd party scripts/plug ins. If one python coder can figure out how to do this, and it's a vital part of a figure development workflow, why isn't this just included with Poser content creation functionality?

It has to do with Poser's breaking apart of groups at the boundaries. GoZ disregards the duplicate vertices at the boundary edges.and returns the mesh "as-is" to Poser. If you GoZ the mesh to ZBrush and then exported that OBJ from ZBrush to your desktop, you'll see that each body part is a separate OBJ instead of being welded.  As soon as you start trying to weld the duplicate vertices, it changes the vertex order.

Adding true "unimesh" support in Poser, and NOT breaking the object part into groups, would fix that.

DeeceyArt posted at 6:58 AM Sun, 29 September 2024 - #4489852

>>> This functionality should just be built into Poser's obj exporter. I don't know the reason why it isn't, why it's tied to Zbrush alone, or why it's the sole realm of 3rd party scripts/plug ins. If one python coder can figure out how to do this, and it's a vital part of a figure development workflow, why isn't this just included with Poser content creation functionality?

It has to do with Poser's breaking apart of groups at the boundaries. GoZ disregards the duplicate vertices at the boundary edges.and returns the mesh "as-is" to Poser. If you GoZ the mesh to ZBrush and then exported that OBJ from ZBrush to your desktop, you'll see that each body part is a separate OBJ instead of being welded.  As soon as you start trying to weld the duplicate vertices, it changes the vertex order.

Adding true "unimesh" support in Poser, and NOT breaking the object part into groups, would fix that.

I already know all that.

PMLs solution is to use an exporter that saves basically a reference map object to a location of your choice, you import the map obj (which is a contiguous mesh/unimesh, welded as it were) into your software of choice, morph, and export out a result. Back in Poser you start up the importer script, select the reference map object and select the object you exported out of your morphing software. The script compares the 2, returns a difference result as a FBM, and also disregards miniscule changes below a certain value as determined by your settings.

So for example I have a posed figure with a JCM active, I use the exporter, morph over the object with the JCM/Rotation deformations present, export the result, use the loader script to import the difference obj, and it returns a morph that is a result of sculpting over the active JCM and joint rotations but with none of those initial states baked into the difference result. The morph is strictly the new changes but relates to those initial states as it was created. So you have, for instance, a JCM that operates as it should over top a pre-existing active JCM.

So, to illustrate I'll use my BJW figure, which is comprised entirely of manifold parts but is unimesh skinned and weight mapped, the torso (abdomen/waist) and neck/head ( neck1/neck2/head) are multi actor welded groups typical of most human Poser figures. Yes it's possible to unimesh skin, weightmap, and apply smooth scale/translation maps to non contiguous parts. The outline "hands" and doodads are ghost bone controllers for the eyes, breasts, and buttocks actors which control rotations and translations.

So in the preview example here we have the figure with many morphs applied, the head scaled up, and basically all actors of the figure posed...

I invoke the exporter script and export the entire figure (you can also export any parented props, control handles for instance, or just export the various actors separately)... there's a warning about classic skinning but the exporter will still export a unimesh skinned figure, though the loading is much faster on set to classic. I've never encountered a bug or figure corruption once in thousands of uses.

Here's the reference object that the exporter produces... it's welded at points where the welding exists. So here you'll notice that the waist and abdomen actors, and the neck/head actors, are contiguous...

I bring this reference export in a sculpting app, Mudbox. I do some quick example morphs. A grab of the head polys and a squeeze of the abdomen, narrowing it. Naturally, being that this is an asymmetrically posed figure, the results will be asymmetrical. It's just an example, if one were to create JCMs (or any left/right morphs for that matter) of course you would want symmetrical posing and split and bake out to l/r, reverse deform any rotations, for the final dependencies.

I export out the morphed figure from mudbox as obj, in Poser I invoke the importer script, load the original reference obj, then load the newly morphed obj out of mudbox. The script runs through the actors and calculates the new morph. The result, a FBM dial that is just that newly created head and abdomen morph as created over top the pre-existing morphs and rotations...

I zero out the figure, leaving it in it's 0 state, no morphs, no rotations but for the newly created morph. No fuss with welding or manually subtracting morphs or rotations baked into the result ( you can manually subtract such deformations or morphs but it is an excruciating and time consuming PITA to do)...

So I guess the question remains why isn't this just built into Poser in some fashion? It handles the welding and allows you to create unimesh FBMs easily, it does reverse deformation type operations. From any modeler, not JUST Zbrush. Any.

This script is from 2012.

And yet still Poser is "moving toward" full unimesh...

I have that script - yes, it's great. It fails, sometimes. The process to use it is kinda convoluted, which of course makes sense as it has to go around Poser's limitations.

From what I understand, it saves a "before" obj, which you need to point it to after you morph it - it compares the two and maths its way around what changed. Very smart process. It lets you know how precise the calculation managed to be.

There are a lot of features that were done in scripts that I've suggested adding to Poser, with the reply that "it won't be needed once we have <X feature that is planned to come>", but the X feature isn't coming. It's a pity, we keep wasting time trying to avoid wasting time.

The real simple reason is that the programmers are convinced that TRUE Unimesh will solve all the problems.  The problem of course is that there is no defined outcome that Unimesh is suppose to be.  The basic one (which several scripts have been created take care of) is being able to Export an Object file and be able to use it in a modeling program and bring it back in as a FBM.  They work great in Poser BUT for some reason DON'T seem to work in other programs, or at least that is the excuse that I have heard. 

The problem is that the Unimesh the programmers are trying for will get rid of the splitting of the figure and only work with it as a single mesh.  Ignore the fact that Poser has worked with split Mesh for the last 25 years.  Also that a great amount of content is only in split format (as the original object files are long gone) so the problem is how to recombine all those split scenes and make it so that it will work in other programs (for what reason unknown).

The simple solution is to load the object as it is now doing, HOWEVER, Keep a copy of the original obj and also split as it currently does.  It would be a piece of cake to create a cross reference table that tracks each vertex so that when a vertex is moved in the split object it is updated in the solid object and visa a versa.  And when it comes time to export (or save) use the solid object.  Since the solid object has not changed order or number of vertices it remains exactly like the original with just the vertex's moved in space.  That way very little has to be done to the program and those functions that work best with split mesh can work with that and those that like solid use those.  About the only thing that wil take a bit of change is rendering when part of the model is removed (such as the forearm).  

Hi, could someone who has the zip for pml 2012.1.39 please echo the zip back to my email pml2012@colorcurvature.com? (Or filesize + md5 sum) Thanks so much.

colorcurvature posted at 2:47 PM Thu, 3 October 2024 - #4489967

Hi, could someone who has the zip for pml 2012.1.39 please echo the zip back to my email pml2012@colorcurvature.com? (Or filesize + md5 sum) Thanks so much.

Email sent.

How about inserting the ability to develop/  render scenes - animations  that will display in the 3d headset environments - Quest, Vision Pro etc.  

Unless I missed some setting, a farther view renders distance before the object disappears.

GeneralNutt posted at 11:14 PM Fri, 11 October 2024 - #4490216

Unless I missed some setting, a farther view renders distance before the object disappears.

You know this can be adjusted with the hither dial on the camera, don't you?

RedPhantom posted at 7:34 AM Sat, 12 October 2024 - #4490220

GeneralNutt posted at 11:14 PM Fri, 11 October 2024 - #4490216

Unless I missed some setting, a farther view renders distance before the object disappears.

You know this can be adjusted with the hither dial on the camera, don't you?

Nope! Thanks

Are there any whisperings as to when poser14 might be released? I'm still on Poser 12 and considering to upgrade in the next 2 month or so, but it would be very annoying if I did that and and a few days later Poser 14 was released.

Nevertrumper posted at 3:47 AM Mon, 8 July 2024 - #4487145

Any solution for that notorious skating effect with character animations in sight?

Gets my vote, too.  I tried to make a script that would repair that, but found I lacked the skills to do it.

Poser 14???

How I envision the 3D program Poser:
The user interface should remain as it is, as it's mature and functional.
In my view, figures and objects, as well as clothing and accessories, should continue to exist as matrices. Essentially, as always, one creates the basic construct as a template in Poser.
The rendering settings and presets, such as shaders and lighting effects, should also remain.
Once this basic configuration is ready, the AI integrated into Poser comes into play. Fine-tuning is done through a prompt input window.
Even better, the AI works permanently on the matrix while it's being created. Essentially, a real-time visual implementation of the created set.
New inputs or changes in the prompt are immediately implemented and visible.
This matrix method would be highly precise and not as vague and inaccurate as a standard AI for image generation.
If I want a pimple on my Poser figure's face, I just specify where, how big, and what color it should be. No more space-consuming normal, skin, bump, or reflection maps.
The resulting increase in possibilities would be nearly limitless.I know that implementation is possible. Whether it will ever be implemented?

Certainly... The only question is: Who?

In my opinion, this would be a grand breakthrough. A combination of the matrix I created and an AI that then breathes life into the whole thing.
Instead of a flower meadow with billions of polygons, I only specify the area where it is in my created set in Poser.

My name is Janus Jsenwark...

AI?

No, thanks! If AI enters Poser, I'm leaving. I don't want to have anything to do with this Rubbish.

It's unethical, dangerous and it takes the fun of creating anything at all.

BB

I consider it more dangerous to become radicalized.

Even ignoring the moral issues, AI would mean losing consistency which is a big problem if you are trying to do multiple renders of the same people in the same space. For example for animation.

That said, if you want to do that there is Ken's script already.

An AI detects your tumor that any doctor would have missed and that then raises moral questions?
Of course, my consistency goes a little off when the lane assistant intervenes, when my pacemaker ensures that my
organism can continue to exist or when I push an electric toothbrush into my teeth.

AI is technically nothing else.

My suggestion was only a supporting AI and not an initiating AI.
The fuzzy logic found in many devices and machines is only getting a little better. 
The conservative Poser user then has the choice of continuing to drive with gears or preferring to drive with an
automatic transmission. Creativity is not compromised by either option.

I'm looking forward to what happens in this direction in the next few years.
Many will miss the transition or the integration of this new technology into their processes or will refuse it for reasons that seem almost religious.

Which is also something I'm looking forward to...

ChromeStar posted at 10:47 AM Tue, 3 December 2024 - #4491865

Even ignoring the moral issues, AI would mean losing consistency which is a big problem if you are trying to do multiple renders of the same people in the same space. 

You can get extremely consistent characters out of AI. 

Don't confuse the generic AI models you find all over the net as AI models geared to a specific character.

As far as animation goes that is only an issue is if you don't know what you are doing, or want that effect..... You can't feed AI a video and then allow the AI to start from all noise on every frame and expect frames to look the same. You can set the noise low, and guide it to do exactly what you want it too. How you do that depends on the video you feed it, and what you want it to do. The biggest problem with animation, is the memory required to do it properly....

Here is a character example, and this is a character I came up with AI running locally on my system. These are low sample proofs, so don't get excited about details, they were proofs...

I get the same character, same makeup, same hair, same body, every time.... It is a specialized model you wont find on the net.....

Your not going to get this type of result with free internet AI, but you can locally if you have the hardware for it and understand how to get to this point.

Hollywood has been using AI for years, and people only notice if they allow something odd to remain in the scene....

Marvel movies being a prime example with Jarvis, Ultron, Vision, etc, etc, etc, all created using specific AI models to get that character, and the characters needed.

This isn't new, in any way.... The only thing new is the hardware to easily do it yourself, and the misconceptions from those that know little to nothing about it...

AI is a tool, and it will only do what you know how to make it do, no different than a paintbrush many people can't paint with either....

You can train models to output whatever you want it to, with scary precision as far as character and consistency goes....

" Woow "

 I am at a loss for words

...........

GiveitUp posted at 2:11 AM Thu, 5 December 2024 - #4491915

An AI detects your tumor that any doctor would have missed and that then raises moral questions?

We're discussing generative AI. That's a complete non sequitur.

Just for clarification.

My standpoint on the issue of generative AI is proportional to the gravity it has to Artists from literally all branches. The database behind AI image, music or writing generators was put together by using a loophole in current copyright laws. Microsoft, Google Apple and Nvidia founded None-Profit Organisations to be able to use everything what is in the Internet for "research" and "analytics".

I think we can agree that this qualifies as a scam. As far as I know, scamming is an illegal act. 

If I would use an AI generator who is based upon stolen data, I'm participating in a crime. That's the main reason why I refuse to use this "Tool".

One word of warning to the people who use AI generators as a tool for their creative process. AI was first trained on data from the Internet, to create the puzzle pieces you are playing with right now. The next step is that your usage of that tool trains AI on what you want to create and what you do to accomplish that task. AI is basically learning the decision process an artist is running through to get to a specific result, during the artist is using  the AI tool. The final step in this development is an AI generator who works on its own, without any human interactions. It knows what you like to see, hear and read, down to an individual level. Sure, it will create a bunch of crap, but it is working 24/7/365 and it is working fast. At that point, you aren't an artist anymore, you are a consumer. Do you find that prospect desirable? To me the answer is...No!

I really don't care if someone sees this standpoint as radical, extremist or religious.  It's based on facts and a basic understanding of human behavior.

BB

The AI argument has been made here many times. This thread was about things you want to see in Poser 14. Someone said they'd like to see AI in Poser. That doesn't need yet another argument being started. Please return to the original topic before this thread deteriorates like every other one that discusses the rights and wrongs of AI has done and I end up having to lock it.

People's minds are made up on the AI topic and it's unlikely anyone is going to change it based on a discussion here.