I just got an email from ClintH that my freestuff links to non-zip and non-sit files will be deleted in 72 hours.

I'm looking into it. Russell

AprilYSH - That is correct. I cant delete the files since they live at 3D Arena. I was taling about removing your Free Stuff links to the files. Your Free Stuff items need to link directly to files for downloading and not web pages like you currently have them. If you can provide me the direct links to the files I will modify your Free Stuff items so they link to the files themselves rather than a web page at the 3D Arena. We provide linking of Free Stuff items to web pages only for hosting companies that dont allow direct linking to files. Please let me know how you would like to procede. Thanks! Clint

only for hosting companies that dont allow direct linking to files That's fine, thanks for clarifying. I'll delete them myself today then. You'll be busy checking most freestuff out to ascertain the differences, unless you have a script! Goodluck :) PS. Although there's no script barring me from linking direct to the zips and sits, the 3-darena hostess asked us personally that we don't do that anymore (others hosted such as Lemurtek, etc.) I personally did link to pages from the start though, just to repay her free hosting generosity. I'm not fussed about not having my freestuff linked here, just put it in here too to make it easier for fellow renderosity members to find my stuff... and if anyone happens to click on my name to find out how much I've contributed in terms of freestuff. Karma ;)

I actually think it'd be a better idea to allow linking to web PAGES rather than the zip/sit files anyways, for the simple reason of the fact that by linking directly to the file itself, that is doing the same thing as bandwidth theft by sites that link to other sites files. More and more hosts are going away from the allowing of direct linking and want their users to link to pages instead. This is one of the reasons I don't put my stuff in the Freestuff.

Isn't that the same as remote loading? I know with many site hosts that's a TOS violation.

It is my impression that most free space hosts are agin' remote linking. The current situation with paid for web space seems to be less bandwidth for more payment. I use the budget level and my host has the bandwidth limit set up as a trap. "Only" $0.1 a meg for overage. No auto block for overage. The point? The tread seems to be such that but for a lucky few, providing the bandwidth for free stuff may become too expensive for individuals. Not yet, not now, but when I plot the data, it trends that way. This not 10,000 registered users anymore, and , with increased size, comes complexity.

Why can't it be venders choice to either link their freestuff as a webpage or link to the actual .zip or .sit file? You're opening a new window anyway, it's not actually like they are leaving the renderosity site... and if that is the worry, they will come back anyway. I mean if the SQL error don't drive them away, opening up a off site webpage wont keep them from comming back either.

This is how I understood it from involvement with the issue at another site. SiteA (on Server A) is a resource for Xfiles. Users can create and contribute their own files. SiteA hosts XF's for sale, but free XF's have to be on your own page. ServerB hosts the Xfilerz Home. Xdude has links at SiteA for free files. However, ServerB notices that XF's is getting downloads, but no banner clicks or hits. Therefore, HostB is seeing non-revenue producing bandwidth usage, or remote loading. Site B shuts XF's site down. To the best of my knowledge, a remote link to another site which links directly to a ZIP or SIT file, and does not allow income-generation for the linked site (banners, etc.) is remote loading, and a terminable action under most of the provider TOS I've read.

Micheleh, not sure what you're getting at. This is an example of two domains on different servers. 3dposer.com and 3dgladiators.com I had a bunch of zip files on my 3dposer.com site. That host did not like me linking into the ZIP files of 3dposer.com onto a page at 3dgladiators.com But linking to a WEB PAGE was fine. That is no different than having a link to someones page on your page. And that is what I think Freestuff should be like: Just link to the persons page where the downloads are located. This appeases many a server host, not to mention has the downloading person going to a web site where they just might find something else they like. It opens into a new window, and people are going to come to Renderosity anyways to see what's new, so Renderosity doesn't have to worry about losing their visitors. And if anyone links in a warez site into the Freestuff, then it's simply reported and that person is banned like all other warez users/posters.

This particular incident wasnt a link to a personal page but to a site that is considered Competition to Renderosity. FYI, Clint

That's what I said, WarriorDL. I was just putting an example for Wolfrose's question of "what's the difference between linking to a site or direct to a .zip or .sit". Site good, (unless, of course, they're "the compitition", heaven forbid!), .zip and .sit bad. ;]

"We provide linking of Free Stuff items to web pages only for hosting companies that dont allow direct linking to files." LadySilverMage asked all of the people whose files are freely hosted on 3-D Arena...NOT to link directly to the files. Since April was only linking to "her" freestuff page and not 3-D Arena's Main Page...I don't get this. Seems to me that she would fall under that which you just said.

nikita, looks that way to me too. shrug

This particular incident wasnt a link to a personal page but to a site that is considered Competition to Renderosity.

Oh so let me get this straight, instead of letting her link to HER page on that site making a new window open up so that no bandwidth theft is taking place and the people are still on Renderosity with the first window, you would rather make people LEAVE Renderosity all together to go to 3-D Arena in search of AprilYSH's stuff... [begin sarcasm] Ah yeah, that sounds like a nice traffic generating poloicy...[end sarcasm]

We dont allow linking to sites that are considered Competition to our site. Sorry - Thats just the way it is. Clint

Just a thought: unlimited linking to html pages in free stuff would have a million ad pages, porn sites, and general crap linked in there within about 10 minutes. Someone would have to go through and filter out the fake or misleading links, or we'd each individually be going thru and trying to download stuff and finding half of the links are not really to free stuff or free stuff pages.

Hey black-canary, they already have someone checking the links to make sure they're legit. The only way to make sure that ALL downloads are legit and NONE are fake ads is to make people upload the files to this server. That isn't going to happen since it would be a bandwidth nightmare. 3-D Arena does have at least one new potential customer thanks to Renderosity now though, before I would just get the download, shut the window, and continue surfing 'osity. Now, I have to actually surf over to 3-D Arena and browse for those wonderful downloads... so I will be spending less time viewing products here to put on my list of things to buy. :) K-a-r-m-a

Thanks for your concern folks :) Please, let me say I don't want to start some sort of 3-darena vs Renderosity campaign! I would hate to do my hostess such a diservice. It is highly unfortunate she is not present at this time to comment on this. I can't pressume to know what she thinks and I DO NOT speak for her or her staff. (I'm not staff btw.) I personally am okay with not putting my freebies in Renderosity freestuff given the policy clarification. It's a matter of course that you follow the site policies, on any site. This thread should just be a positive suggestions discussion and leave the specific identities out of it. Specifying sites and people is more like a C&D thread. So summation of objective points are: - site policy: page linking is only for hosting companies that dont allow direct linking to files - site policy: page linking to competitors is not allowed - some free hosts consider linking direct to zips and sits bandwidth theft - paid hosts cost too much in bandwidth to freestuff providers - freestuff opens in a new window already and page linking shouldn't increase the competitor's edge as opposed to zip and sit linking? One other point I'm not sure came through is that freestuff on either site shouldn't have anything to do with the "competing" stores? The only actionable suggestion I can glean is having Renderosity host our files, or finding another host that will allow remote linking. So that's how it stands, and as per usual in ideas submitted to this forum, we leave it for admin to find a solution and wait. It's also possible there is no solution, as happens in other submissions in the past.

"We dont allow linking to sites that are considered Competition to our site. Sorry - Thats just the way it is." Eeeewwwww! You're not allowed to say that unless you're a Jewish mother. ;]

Micheleh, LOL. I just cant go round and round on the subject. :) Thats the way it is at this time. We are however looking into possible solutions to help our community out with Free Stuff hosting. Nothing firm but it is being discussed amoung the Admins. Clint

First of all, I have been gone on a family emergency.

Funny I hadn't realized we were a competitive site, anymore than morphworld, or DAZ. We allow many many people who can not direct link to host their files on our server, but when they all linked directly to the files the bandwidth was out of control, the solution was to allow them to link to their own pages.

If we are to take this personally then we in return would stop linking all of the links we have to rendersosity. We link from our magazine to the renderosity store and gallery on a regular basis. We don't consider it linking to the competition but rather an expansion of a fantastic and giving community.

Our product reviews of products in the 'rosity marketplace link directly to your product pages. It would seem that while we have an open mind the admins here do not.

Nowhere in the upload page for the freebies or the original notice of ability to link to html pages did it ever state that there were restrictions of this kind.

I guess that since I link to my personal site for my downloads and I sell items through that site that I will need to remove all of those free things as well as that is apparantly a competitive site.

I am not however so small minded that I will remove all links to Renderosity. Funny DAZ links to us from their product pages to our reviews and doesn't consider us competition at all (how could we be?

When nikita and I started 3-D aRena it was specifically with the artist in mind, not profit. We take very low percentages from the sales and the sales are really only there to help support the site. We offered free web sites, downloads and the magazine. We Hosted the files so that those who couldn't offer their items here would have a place to offer their downloads. It was never our intent to compete with 'rosity or any other site, only to be fair to artists and give them options they couldn't get elsewhere.

I suppose I should feel flattered that we are considered competition, but instead I am simply saddened and upset for those we do host that there is now a line drawn in the sand. I hope that many will realize that WE never drew that line and have always included renderosity links in our site, more than likely helping sales of those items and therefore increasing the profits of 'rosity itself.

LSM

oh by the way, does this mean I need to remove the renderosity webring link from 3-D Arena? As it is a competive site. It is also my sponsor site under my images, does this mean I must now change my profile?

I saw this one coming a mile off. That's what happens when you make a blanket statement like "we don't link to the competition". File that one in the "oops!" file! ;] Personally, based on what LadySilverMage says and my experiences with 3DaRena, I would consider her more of a self-supporting affiliate than competition, with the possible revenue redirection inherent in potential "competition" more than alleviated by the publicity, links to 'rosity, and gain from the existence of "cohabitive" artists like AprilYSH. Therefore, you have definite and apparent benefit balanced against a small potential of loss. Seems like a winning situation to me. At this time, I think it is bad to be divisive over rather unimportant issues, especially since the ability to maintain a smaller website independent of the corporate advertising monsters is becoming increasingly difficult. I am certain that a legitimate concern prompts the definition of a "competing" website as being not eligible for direct links, and that this decision was made with good intention on the part of the admins. I just think, again personally, that the disadvantages of a position like that will outweigh the benefits, as well as giving a potentially poor image of the admins as authorative and disinterested- untrue, I am certian, but I know how people will jump on things here!

Michelah, we aren't even technically "self-supporting" as of yet. I pay for the site costs that aren't convered in sales and as yet very few costs are covered in sales. It isn't our biggest draw (the store) We will not however remove links to'rosity or any other "competitive" site. It goes against the entire reason for the creation of 3-D Arena and that was to serve the artists and modellers as best as we can. This includes reviews of products and links to those products even though they may be Renderosity products. If we stopped doing this we would be giving less to the community that we want so much to support and encourage. -LSM

Nono, I was saying I think you have a cool site, and 'rosity would lose more than they gain by saying you are "competition". Like you said, it's hard to keep your head above water with a smaller site, and I think arist-oriented sites need to stick together, before they are all little branches of the Microsoft World Network or similar. I think you're being great about the whole thing. Don't mind me, I think out loud alot. 8)

8~) I understood what you meant. For the record no offense is being taken by any of this. The site rules are what they are and must be abided by. But they should be clearly stated. It is simply a pity that those we host will have to find alternative ways to offer their items here. We had thought that if they linked only to their own freebie download pages that it would be acceptable.... we see that this is not so...

Well, we'll see. Like Russell said, they are looking into the matter as we speak.....