i sliced and diced a new figure cr2 i made to reference the external obj instead of using geomcustom. the obj is 1.8M, the cr2 with morphs is 1.8M the cr2 with embedded geom and morphs is 2.8M, therefore smaller than the obj+cr2 above. so for filesize reasons it looks like the embedded version is better?!? i'd like to know other pros and cons for referencing an external obj instead. also, if this is for poser, i could redistribute only the geom rsr (only 800k) and the cr2 ... is this a bad idea? thanks :)

Well, I can only remember once when Poser made an internal OBJ for one I my CR2s, all of mine normally use externals, I generally (almost always) also convert props to external ones. One big advantage is updateability, while your in the working-up stage. DAZ also wants external objs, for everything sold there. As to the filesize differences, I suspect Poser is using less digits for the entries than whatever you are using, I know most of the OBJs that come with Poser are only 5 or 6 digits, when I save out of Max I always use 6, many use more, 10 or even 12 which really gets the filesize up. I wouldn't distribute a geometry RSR, if Poser crashes and corrupts it (which happens a lot!) the person will have no backup unless they can find the zip..

If you save the obj file from Poser (cr2 zeroed, in default pose), then delete the customGeom elements for the object from the cr2 file, the sizes of the cr2 and obj files should add up correctly. The discrepancy is probably due to differences in the way various softwares save an obj file, as mentioned by Jim B.

The main disadvantage to using external obj references is that you may have to spend 30 to 60 seconds doing the cr2 editing. Advantages as mentioned by Jim B.

poser hardly ever embeds your geom Jim? i don't have propack. if that makes a diff... i don't know what "digits" you mean. this is simply what did: - created a simple obj in anim8or - imported into poser - applied magnets (cos i'm too lazy to do what i wanted in anim8or) - exported the obj so i have a saved copy of the morphed shape - imported into poser again so its default shape is the morphed shape... - imported more of this same obj, moved them around (no more magneting) - exported the whole lot out as a single obj and also - did heirarchy editor > crete new figure so i ended up with a cr2 that had embedded obj in there... i replaced them with external referening, took me a little longer than 30-60 seconds! ahh well, it worked. ;) btw, anthony appleyard has a utility in freestuff that converts rsr geom to obj again, if i recall correctly... i have to check! thanks muchly folks :)

One time-saver with regard to cr2 editing is to group your object in anim8or, export to poser, then export the default object to a folder in the Geometries folder. If you write a simple phi file that includes a line referring to that default object, then the cr2 file you create from the phi file should also refer to that object. There's even an app called phi builder to help, if you don't want to write the phi file in your text editor.

Some software (the Max obj plug-in, for example) gives you the option to change the number of digits on the lines of the obj file, the one below (part of Vickie's OBJ) uses 6, as you can see (the 0 doesn't count). I think UV Mapper uses 8 now, it used to be less, so everything that goes thru UV mapper has more digits, and a bigger file. My stuff seldom gets exported back out of Poser, that might be what makes it embedded when you bring it back in, otherwise I have no idea! Yeah, it takes me longer than 30 seconds too, to make 'em external when they are internal! g v -0.000692 0.644490 0.036993 v -0.002511 0.644297 0.036727 v -0.004024 0.644180 0.036282 v -0.005439 0.644193 0.035715 v -0.007048 0.643954 0.034865 v -0.008910 0.641886 0.033609 v -0.009161 0.635895 0.031985 v -0.008527 0.634706 0.031045 v -0.007938 0.633866 0.030200 v -0.005312 0.632758 0.028614 v -0.004213 0.632362 0.029763 v -0.002162 0.632200 0.031880 v -0.001081 0.632127 0.032161 v 0.000000 0.637743 0.037497 v 0.000000 0.638409 0.037466 v 0.000000 0.639266 0.037418 v 0.000000 0.637183 0.037413 v 0.000000 0.636482 0.037275 v 0.000000 0.633247 0.035509 v 0.000000 0.634305 0.036332 v 0.000000 0.635358 0.036929 v 0.000000 0.640734 0.037264 v 0.000000 0.643166 0.036940 v -0.007300 0.639736 0.035093 v -0.005332 0.640060 0.035940 v -0.005381 0.637414 0.036022 v -0.007389 0.637437 0.034762 v -0.005138 0.635532 0.035509 v -0.007072 0.635706 0.034223 v -0.004932 0.634355 0.034574 v -0.006576 0.634521 0.033414

next time i make a figure i'll look into phi builder, thanks for the tip nyar1ath0tep :) oh, yes, my obj would have 8 digits then (i should look) cos last thing i did was open it in uvmapper and move the map a bit and resave. -- this is one huge advantage i can see for external obj, you can remap to your heart's content without editing the cr2!!! :) ahh what fun :) no wonder modellers don't find time to make pics, modelling is so much fun too :) i was making a poser hair figure by the way, thanks for your help, i shall IM you two when i finish it and if you like it you can have it!

I would say that external geometry has all the advantages. Every time a user saves a pz3, the whole cr2 gets saved inside it. If a user saves a few pz3s containing your figure then external geometry will save them some hard drive space since they dont wind up saving the geometry each time. If you have external geometry, not only can you distribute updated cr2s but your users can distribute modified cr2s without distributing your geometry. Because the geometry isnt included, nobody that doesnt own the original file will be able to use the new cr2. Your work is protected but your figure gets extra versatility without you having to do the work yourself. The success of figures like Victoria 1 and Michael was based on that idea. Victoria 2 is a different matter (since she is really just a morph bearing cr2 for Victoria 1). If the geometry is external, the user can also distribute a whole pz3 including your figure, whish is rare but sometimes useful. You can easily remap the geometry if its external, and you can distribute the remap with uvs files or pcf files (created with UV Mapper or Objaction mover) It is true that a geometry bearing cr2 is smaller than a suite of cr2,obj and rsr. But that space saving disappears the first time the cr2 gets saved in a pz3 or the first time a user saves a second copy of the cr2 to their library. PHI builder is free and IMHO its the best PHI editing software around. Check it out. You should be able to find it with a search engine. Steer clear of PHI Factory. Ive never been able to get it to work.

i was working with the p4nudeman one night and added the resulting character to the character library. i wanted to change the texture quickly so i went to a text editor to do a quick search/replace. lo and behold, the head was embedded!!! nothing else was. what did i do to it? i was in the process of remapping the p4nudeman to take michael skins. i had just text edited the p4nudeman cr2 to refer to the new remapped obj, loaded in poser, set my textures in the materials editor, saved to library. went and edited my textures in another program and renamed the new versions, went to edit the cr2 as i said above. nothing weird there... but somewhere along the line poser decided to use geomcustom just for the head.

Could you have done anything with the group editor? New groups will do it.

i don't remember using the grouping tool in poser itself. ahh well, if i can reproduce something weird like this consistently, i'll post again :)

heyas; poser embeds geometry if you even THINK of touching the grouping tool. ;) actually i dont know if it embeds geometry when you select the tool, when you click the tool on the body part, or when you actually tell it to make a new group. the only other time poser embeds is if you save a prop. ::