I owe it to many to post something, not that they are drooling to see ANYTHING from me, but to prove I have been reading (hi, blacksteel), and "listening" and trying to learn from the things people have taken the time to help me with. People like ronknights, mehndi, holyforest, colcasey, and scifiguy...to name some I can remember off the top of my head. I know it is a simple pose (well, not for ME...4 hours of Cntrl-Es), simple lighting (well, not for ME...still didn't get the effect I wanted), no props, and no clothes. A rough history of my maddening adventure (things I THINK I have learned): Forget using limits in extreme poses, forget IK, read the book over and over, the skeleton can't handle much more than I did...I wanted knees drawn completely against chest...I wanted a figure withdrawn in sadness...like a fetal position, make use of the "symmetry" tool, and render often (well, ME anyway). Then, lots of post to cover bad areas: a bow in the back from the bend, a divot where the thigh joined the hip, and an upper arm that was twisted too much. (wonder if I should have left it?) Anyway, I have placed it on the perverbial table as it were. I know it's a boring pose with boring lights. Any comments would be appreciated (I owe this to marforno...Martin, too for something that happened between us) Vicky 2 by DAZ (duh!), Gypsy Hair by hmann (not that you can see much of it...what a shame!)

Congratulations! You're doing fine, keep it up. I haven't the nerve to post any of my Poser efforts, yet; no need to inflict such horrors upon the general populance. I've displayed some quick renders of props I've created, but I have yet to do something ambitious. One step at a time ...

Wow, great fir a first pic! Keep it up! Jay

ChuckEvans, This is an absolutely fabulous picture. My gosh, I can't believe how good this is. I am telling you the truth. Gosh, you can ask some of my friends here (Doug?!) Ask them how I gleefully shared pictures for months, and didn't even know how to render them! The point is this: This is a great picture. You can always do better if you want. Remember that sometimes you're your own worst critic. Now join with your friends and have fun. Ron

A work of art! --------------------------------------------------- (get the jaggies off the shadow and you've got near photographic!)

Yes, have fun is the key! It's frustrating, tho. I can't believe I even posted it, 'cept for the reasons I mentioned. I told mehndi I never would. When I look at the galleries, I have to stop because there are people out there who are making things that should be on calendars, posters, etc. (people who, if they had Kincaid's managers would be just as great...Hobbit comes to mind) and instead of getting inspired, I get disheartened. But, like looking to see if the accident on the side of the road has injured people, I can't help myself...I have to keep looking. But enough self-flagulation (sp?). Thanks for the kind words (and so quickly!). But seriously, what about my learning? Am I right or wrong? Should I leave limits off? What about IK? You know, the wrists are merged with the shins...otherwise, they looked too "high". And I was expecting someone to mention how the knees were distorted...how can that be stopped...a human can do a canonball in a swimming pool and have the shins against the thigh and the thigh against the tummy. I couldn't do that. Is it just me or the limits of the figure? Nevertheless, thanks mucho for the encouragement. Now, to twirl 2 threads (hehe, Ron) together in some sort of nostalgia, I am inspired by the following (who knows any of these?): Vaughn Bode, Frazetta (duh!), Boris (duh!), or David Hamilton.

This is an A1 Image! Nice work :)

Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo rule. I'm also inspired by Larry Elmore.

Well, guess I'll do a search for Larry Elmore...hehe, got me there...and you do a search on David Hamilton...banned a lot of places in US. Thanks for the comments. Thanks for the encouragement. My wife is here yanking on my sleeve telling me that she wasn't just saying it was nice. I guess it's OK for a first render, but it was darn hard to pose! How long does it take "you guys/gals" to pose a single figure? And what does the average person do about limits and IK?

Attached Link: http://www.schlabber.org/index.html

Ok, this is my understanding. 1.) Get rid of IK 2.) Many people who create fabulous poses tell us to get rid of limits as well. By the way, did you know that you can get Pose libraries that will pose your characters for you? Did you know about Schlabber's site? I'm giving you a link. There are hundreds of fabulous poses.

Very nice job. Much better then my 1st, thinks to self I should take my 1st one off this site. I am still learning and wow I think I should run and hide all my work now cause that is a great pic, and for a 1st pic I am totally impressed.

geep (et al): The jaggies you mentioned, is it a problem with my lighting or is it the "nature of the game"? Would more lights get rid of it? Of course, in this picture, I wanted to "indicate" solitude somehow and wanted as few lights as possible. But does more lights solve the problem or does everyone fix the "jaggies"?

Have you selected Anti-Alias in your Render settings? Check out this screenshot. It's a bit awkward looking.. but it should do.

You don't need more lights; just increase the size of the shadow maps. Click on one of the lights, then crank up the Map Size dial. Larger maps result in sharper shadows, but also require more memory and slow down the render.

... the size of the shadow "Map" size.
You can adjust it from 64 (very soft edge) to 1024 (hard straight line(almost).

Rendering takes longer with higher settings because the shadow map will be more detailed but, the results are better.

Try playing with "Shadow" (goes from 0 (no shadow) to 1 (black shadow - provided that other lights are not illuminating the shadowed area, also).

• and -
  "Map" (see above)

Try using "Shadow" = 0.5 and "Map" = 64.
This will produce a very soft, light shadow.

• or -

You can cheat (just kidding) and retouch the "finished" product. ;=]

cheers, (and happy :o) shaddowing)
dr geep ;=]

A really great render. Keep those post coming.

The pose is anything but boring! There is emotion in it, and it looks real -- that's a lot more than can be said about a lot of other poses I've seen. The lights may not be the most interesting I've seen, but hey, they work, which is the important part.

You should make sure she's actually on the ground, though -- right now it looks like she's floating an inch or two above it. Here's a quick tip for placing figures firmly on the ground: Use the Outline mode, make sure the ground plane is on, and use the Front/Back/Left/Right cameras. That way it's easy to make the appropriate body parts to touch the ground.

Its beautiful Chuck. Great job! Don't worry, the longer you use Poser the more you will come to accept that somethings are just never going to look "right" compared to a real person. You'll get used to it...digital Barbie's can only do so much! As zicon said, the front/left/right/back/top/bottom cameras should become your friend. The display in 2D, making it A LOT easier to see exactly where your figure is. "Drop to floor" is another favorite of mine. I cheat with camera angles too ;) "Should I leave limits off?" Yes and no. I start with them on because beyond them you get more distortion and joint weirdness. If I can't quite get what I want, then I turn them off for final tweaking. The master posers like Schlabber don't use them though, so turn them off before applying their poses or it won't work right. And do check out Schlabber's site...his poses have been both a great starting point and a learning tool for me. "What about IK?" I never used it, and find it more irritating than anything else. Maybe its useful for animations or something.

As usual, I can depend on the people who have great things to display to help out. It never ceases to amaze me that people who should spend their time making money with their talent stop to say a word to me. For those of you who took the time to look at this thread, I will "give" you something. I have no self esteem, I am (was) a photographer, love the female form (I can't think of anything more beautiful), and want to make pics that evoke some sort of appreciation. I know I can never equal the likes of so many people's work I have seen. But, I want to try. Thanks to all of you who have helped me and encouraged me. So what have I "given" you? Just know this...I was moved to tears that people had good things to say...that people cared to say anything...that's one of the reasons my wife loves me...I cry at "chick flicks" so much...one of my favorites being, "Spitfire Grill". Thanks to all of you! Rendor on !

BEAUTIFUL....Sharen

Chuck, I'm with you, totally. I cried at my wedding, during the entire ceremony. I'm also an artist and a poet. I'm proud of that. Chuck, you're almost to the point where you understand that Renderosity is an online community of artists. We have a common bond, and we help each other. I have much to learn, but I never would have gotten this far without the support of the Renderosity Community, and the daily contact with Senjin, my buddy. Do me a favor. Stand up straight and proud. Tell yourself that you're an artist, and you've found a home here. Then share your work with us, talk to us. Ask questions. Give us your own wisdom. Oh, and kiss your wife for me! Grin. I'll kiss mine for you. We softies gotta stick together. Ron PS: I know many people here will talk to you or help if you ask. I will guarantee you here and now that I will always be here for you. (If I can't talk at the moment, I'll let you know. But I will be here for you.)

"What about IK?" I never used it, and find it more irritating than anything else. Maybe its useful for animations or something.

scifiguy

---

I don't do animations, but I have found IK to be useful especially when tweaking poses. Turn IK on when you want to move that foot or hand just a little bit that's easier than reposing the entire arm or leg. I use IK a lot when I'm trying to get a figure's feet firmly on the ground.

IK is also a great tool when you find that a pose is too stiff be be natural, and you want to e.g. slant the hips or shoulders a little. Turn IK on for both hands and feet, and slant away! Hands and feet will stay in the same position while you tune the hips and shoulders, and the pose will look much better afterwards.

Larry Elmore...a search turns up "Sci-Fi artist"...but a visit to his site www.larryelmore.com seems to indicate more of a fantasy flare. Odd, but I find myself drawn to his B&W more than his color (Boris and Frank's colors are much more pronounced)...not to mention his original B&Ws cost around $500 (vs $3,500 for color). So, me and my 28.8 modem spent an hour there...hehe. Zicon: I think those are good reasons to use IK...hadn't thought about that, but I'll sure give it a try. Thanks! (I guess everything has its uses..hehe)

You've done a wonderful job, Chuck! Be proud of yourself. The care and attention to detail truly show. i actually rather like the lighting, myself--and lighting is a huge, huge part of making a render come out well. This is the part where, having something to judge by, you can purchase lighting sets and pose sets that will get you 90% of where you want to go in a fraction of the time. Some stuff i use: Eric Westray's poses for Victoria & Michael, because he pays a lot of attention to detail and has a good feel for real figures; whwhitney's pose parts are a fine addition to Eric's, and help tremendously. DAZ3D's UD Lighting is essential, and Blackhearted's lighing set fills out the cranny's; you can tweak both of those and get great results. There is a tutorial on photographic lighting by Syyd, i think, that is excellent, too. i think the shadow is jaggy because you have a bump map on the ground plane, perhaps? Otherwise, soften the shadow map by going to 128 or so. i wouldn't go any lighter for this figure, since it has a nice chiaroscuro as is. The highligh from the spot on the shoulder is delicious. Your hands are excellent! You could probably have sunk her into the floor a tiny bit, and perhaps gotten her feet onto the floor by rotating her on the X-axis at the Body or Hip. A little judicious mesh collision will give the illusion of gravity: see my "Seated Nude" for a prime example. The distortion at the joints, as you know, can't be helped, and most of us deal with that in post-render work in Photoshop (or some such). By the way, use dials, and enter the numbers from the key pad when you have to get really fiddly. Nothing else is going to be as accurate. And as someone said earlier, examine a figure from every angle before you're done with a pose. And when you are trolling the galleries and see something you like, check out the credits, as many folk will list what they used. i do that as a curtesy to people who are shopping for cool clothes, props, and stuff, as i am wont to do, as much as a thank you to the other artists whose work i rely upon to make a good picture. Thank you very much for sharing! Be of good heart, and do lots more work.

Also, one more thing to say...and I didn't want it to be just part of a "group" message... Ron, thanks for your kind words. Like mine, yours revealed a little bit of your soul. Were I a poet, I could have said it much better. It's terrible to bare a piece of yourself and have no one pay attention (or even worse, "walk away"...well, hehe, as much as one CAN walk away in a thread...grin). Now, I know more about you...and what makes you "tick".

Chuck, you're one of us now. Keep smiling.