2 moans. Is it me or does anyone else think there are too many adverts in this forum for the Market place. Secondly why don't people comment on pics in the Poser gallery apart from those by established artists. I posted my 1st 2 images to the gallery and while I got a lot of views not a single comment. Oh well. complaint over

Hey there Well speaking as a merchant i geuss it is just to let ppl know what they have going on, and to let ppl know when they will come out other wise no one will know anything. Now i for one am getting sick of ppl and artists who complain about this issue,as far as im concerned it doesnt hurt anyone here at r, if merchants post a pic of there items, and further more i noticed that the ppl doing the moaning are the ppl who dont sell here at r. And as for the comments on work i look at nearly all the images here but i only make a comment when and if i feel it appropriate,i know it can be disheartning for an artist to put his work and his soul up for all to see, and have no one comment as we as artist`s need the comments from our fellow piers. cheers dolly

Um, hate to tell you this, but I'm one of the moaners and I'm also a merchant. I just don't moan all that loudly because I know it won't do any good.

Hey kate Why do ppl moan about it,lol i cant for the life of me think why as it dont hurt anyone. Can someone please explain why it gets on ppls nerves so much that they feel the need to speak up about it cheers dolly

I don't visit the Marketplace often because I'm not always in a mood to buy something. Sometimes when I go there, the products are not displayed in any great depth that would answer all my questions. I really like it when a merchant showcases a product in the forum, and spends some extra time in the effort. I also love the ability to talk to the artist/merchant and clarify things. I really respect artists, and love the insights.

I like to see whats coming up.:-))

There was a thread about starting a forum to showcase products, would that help? Would people visit it?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12375&Form.ShowMessage=550815

Why a new forum ? When the "nudity" thread was going on, a nice solution have been found : a label for posts. So why not inserting a new label (advertizement, preview, spam, ferengi or whatever you want to name it) ?? Then people who don't like this will just skip messages...

That seems like a most sensible suggestion, Merlin. I think that a separate forum would be counter-productive... A free-for-all festival of consumerism. People like me on a limited budget would avoid it like the plague. labeling seems like a good compromise.

I don't mind the posts on the products. I enjoy seeing the work as it is being created and the announcement when it is completed. It not only shows what is being sold but, what others in the community are working on. I am not a merchant. If I'm not in interested in the thread, many people are very good at stating that it is an ad or product preview, I just pass it by. Then when I am finished reading mark all read. I do like the idea of the label for merchandise. That way the poster can use a more descriptive title and I still know that it will be an ad or preview. Just one woman's opinion ;) Lynn

I have to agree with dolly on this one. The promo pictures aren't hurting anyone and I, as a patron like to see what new products are coming out. Also as an artist, if I'm making a promo picture for someone, that new product gives me something new to work with and I enjoy seeing what other artists have done with it as well. I don't remember seeing many (if any) images that have big ad campaigns on the actual picture itself. As for commenting on images, I comment on images that I like, no matter who made them. It took a long time before I ever received any comments on my own pictures...I was so excited, I'll never forget who made that first remark! :-) So hang in there hon, and your day will come.

Hi Zoeloves I haven't put anything in the market (yet, maybe one day I'll do something good enough), but I do post images. The way I see it, almost nobody is cruel enough to post a negative comment, so if I see a lot of views, but no comment, I take it as an indication that I got something wrong somewhere. No views, and the thumbnail didn't grab 'em. Now there is no accounting for taste, and there are a huge number of images posted, so even if someone wanted to comment on all of them, it wouldn't be possible. Is it treason to suggest that you also post to some other sites with lower populations. The advantage of that is you can compare responses. Let me tell you that can be intriguing... keep trying (BTW if you want views, don't post a thumbnail, but do check the nudity tag - that'll do it! Just kidding ;) ) regards peejay

I look here for product development in this forum for products on this site and those advertised for other's site .... I don't sell, but I buy a lot. I prefer to come here for product information than searching scores of sites just in case someting new shows up. Since I'm on a dial up with slow response time, each new site takes often a minute or more to come up. Adding another forum adds to the places I search for product information. I like it the way it is.

As one of the offending merchants... well, i hope not so offensive... i'll say that the debate about WIP products in the forums, new releases, and so on is raging amongst the merchants, too. Regardless, i do want to share the creative excitement in making something new and nifty; if it's for sale or not, i for one don't care--it's all good, to me. (You know that the Clios, the awards for broadcast advertising, are given to some of the most creative work on the air!) Being able to share new works in the forums and galleries, commercial or not, is my big reward in being in the community. And thanks, Ron, your reply is exactly why i would post a new commercial work in the forum: so i can talk more about it with the people who might like to have it, and show them more than the 3 pics we're allowed in the marketplace can do. As for the galleries--go figure! Poser gallery images are loaded up so fast, that unless you upload at a time of day when people are looking, one's pics will barely be seen. Even then, they get lost in the sauce. If you share a couple of times in the forum, then people will know if they want to look for you in the gallery. Otherwise, you have to make thumbnails that will really hook folks--or not, as peejay said. Naked ladies get WAY more views than anything else. You can lose your mind trying to woo the public, so don't try! Just pursue excellence, and keep showing. Come to think of it, would you please post something you've done recently in this thread, so we can see what we're missing? --Nan

Look at all the posts this forum generated yesterday and then compare them to the number that had anything to do with merchants goods. Its really pretty small, folks, and as long as the merchant tells me in the subject line that its an advert, its no biggie. Its a non-issue. Leave it at that.

Usually, when someone mentions their new work in this forum, the subject line indicates that it's an advertisement for a product in the MarketPlace. That makes it easy to skip over if you don't want to look at the advertisements.

As for comments to artwork, the established artists probably get more comments because the commenters are friends or fans. Both take time to develop. If you keep posting, and take the time to give useful comments to others, I bet you'll find that over time you'll get more and more comments.

Just my bit....Forums are for asking and talking..Marketplace is for selling. All the sellers are naturally going to say there's no harm but how much of Renderosity do they want? There's a world of difference between showing off your latest creation (we all love to do that) and using people to assess what is, at the end of the day, a commercial product (sounds of Mon battening down hatches and preparing for siege). People can use whatever words they want but folks......it's business, don't pretend it's not. When you go commercial it changes your status, there's no disgrace in that, we need commerce and some of the most beautiful free downloads have come from commercial people in Renderosity. I would be scuppered without the generosity of people who contribute their work and/or knowledge to the big R. Perhaps a development forum is a possibility to consider then those who wish to keep abreast of new products can do so.
And finally..it's just my opinion so please don't get too nasty
Mon the contentious ;)
ps: I was going to put a link to my new site but I thought that might cause..ahem, some negative feedback

I think it's nice that merchants label their posts "advertisement," or something similar. You can choose to look or not. It doesn't take any extra time to just skip past that thread. One huge reason I love Renderosity is that you can "get personal" with the artists who also happen to be merchants. This has been invaluable for me. I like to know what went behind the work. I like to know the artists really care about their products, and about us, the consumers. These artists have honored me at times, by letting me beta test their products, along with other people. I'm like the next guy. I dream that one day I could "go commercial," and get paid for doing what I love. I am far from having "commercial talent" at this time. I can't figure how to create something someone might want to buy. The closest I can come is my Marlin's World comic strip which will one day at least see life in my web site. That may be as far as Marlin ever gets. You can generate a good working relationship with people here in the forums. Every time I post a new Gallery image, I get responses from some "fans and friends." I'm so flattered! I try to return the favor. Every day, I try to look at the first couple pages of new Gallery Items, and leave some good comments for the artists. It's hard to do more than that if I have other projects on hand, and need to clean house, etc. A separate Merchant Thread might have merit. One thing that came to mind for me is that I only read one forum: Poser. Part of that is due to "time restrictions." Ron

I dunno, Mon... I kind of like the announcements and WIP requests... it gives me the chance to see what's coming, and to help shape the final product to something I'd like to see. I don't sell anything here (Full disclosure: at least not yet - I'm toying with the idea of selling my Katie project once I get her skin textures finished, though I'll always make free models as whims and requests occur to me, so no worries there :) One thing forum-wise though, I'm not sure how many folks (especially newbies) would necessarily gravitate towards a dev or WIP forum, but it does sound like a great idea. And yeah, I agree with you 100% - business is business. OTOH, I don't consider commercial WIP and semi-advertisements to be the outright spam that some think it to be. For example, look at the sheer amount of posts generated whenever Curious Labs posts WIP and semi-advert stuff in here - very few would consider it to be spam-like, and usually appreciate the customer relation lengths that CL goes to. I don't consider the individual merchants here any differently. Me, I've come from a place where business is done a little differently - the world of Open Source. IMHO it's a far better way of doing business... Anything I make or sell commercially will not contain non-open-sourced components in it, with very few exceptions, for this reason. In short, if you've bought something from me, and you want to modify it and even sell the results, go for it... just know that you have to make your results open-sourced for others to further modify and sell :) This saves me (and you) any worries of piracy, copyright infringement, or any of that other crap that many merchants hate, and many users here dread running afoul of. If I do decide to sell something (like Katie), it will be licensed under the LGPL (Lesser GPL) as opposed to the full-bore open and original GPL, so that I can make it commercially viable but still true to the principles I just laid out in the previous paragraph. I guess I'd have to speak with the Renderosity staff to make sure their standard license doesn't get accidentally dropped into the download, though... /P

I guess I'd have to speak with the Renderosity staff to make sure their standard license doesn't get accidentally dropped into the download, though... Big chance. ;) Actually one of the good things of this Marketplace is the standard licence. As a buyer I don't want a differnt licence for each package.

While not all, many of the artists who sell stuff in Marketplace are also active in providing Free Stuff and offering advice in the forums. That makes it hard for me to complain about the occasional advertisement in this Forum. If the forums were packed with product advertisements, I might feel differently, but advertisements still seem to be a small proportion of the overall posts here.

What I would like to see, though, is more comment on products to help me better choose whether to buy them. Theoretically, there are comment sections in the MarketPlace. However, since I have never seen a bad comment attached to a MarketPlace item, I suspect that bad comments are not allowed, and thus MarketPlace comments are not very useful as a guide to buying products there.

However, since I have never seen a bad comment attached to a MarketPlace item, I suspect that bad comments are not allowed, and thus MarketPlace comments are not very useful as a guide to buying products there. Comments are reviewed by the vendor. ;P

I did bad comments here!Its about more than a year ago! I did it after trying to contact the seller and get no responce ,and to give other a warning.It were 2 or 3 things that were not ok , from many things i bought.And it was not a matter of taste . But I think , the things sold here, have got much better, and there is more testing.

They let the merchant filter out all bad comments. Then they won't let you return something when you're not happy with it. If they let some of those bad comments through maybe we could make more informed purchasing decisions.

Well, just a small second thought. I have no objection to adverts that are plainly adverts, but when a merchant tries to sneak one in under the wire with a misleading subject line, I get a little testy. Advertise your wares if you must (and lets face it, it makes sense to do so in the forum), but make sure we KNOW its an advert. Thats only being honest and fair.

I don't mind advertisements or posts by beta testers of a product in the gallieries. If I don't want to look at it, I don't read it. ;) Gallery images help me decide if a product is worth having and worth the price, PARTICULARLY after a product as been released. I like to see what the "average" Poser user can do with a product, without perfect lighting or in depth knowledge of the product itself. It gives me a clue as to how much work I would have to do to make the product look good.

I guess I'd have to speak with the Renderosity staff to make sure their standard license doesn't get accidentally dropped into the download, though<< You can't sell an item at the marketplace without including the license. There's no provision for individual licenses: you can't even include an addendum. Which is fair enough: that way anyone who buys from renderositiy knows what they are getting. >>I have never seen a bad comment attached to a MarketPlace item<< Vendors can chose whether or not to let those comments be publicly visible. It's part of the advertising of the product, after all. I've commented positively on several products myself, and in one case the vendor chose not to display what I'd said, even though it was a compliment. Her choice. Some vendor do include negative comments. Not many, I agree, but it does happen. I can't say what I'd do - so far I haven't recieved any feedback comments on my items. I think I'd display it, though, unless I felt it was unfair (and negative isn't automatically unfair). I believe in informing people as much as possible. And that's why I post here about new products. People do like to know. No one is forced to read every thread here. I skip a lot of advertising threads myself - depends who's doing the posting :-)

Because I don't necessarily trust the comments associated with products, I usually won't buy anything from here over $15.00. $15.00 or less might be worth a risk, more than that not. An exception might be for a texture, where the ad can display the entire product and there's not too much left unknown for guessing.

"You can't sell an item at the marketplace without including the license. There's no provision for individual licenses: you can't even include an addendum." -eirian sigh... I've read that thing - it looks too much like a Microsoft End-User License Agreement - icky. I wish they did allow an individual to use alternate and proven industry licenses, though, if for no other reason than as a simple professional courtesy. OTOH, I do understand that it helps in that the customer knows exactly what they get, but still... it all seems so limiting to me. If them's the rules, I'll abide by 'em, but I'll always hope for improvement. /me trots over to the Community Ideas forum for a few minutes :) /P

Actually, bj, there are some things here well worth the additional money (no commercial representation intended with the following, okay?), like Neftis "Casual Hair" for Mike -- a resource hog because of the complexity, but well worth the twenty bucks. When you think about it, we get some amazing deals at this place, stuff that, in the RW, would cost far more from a commercial supplier -- Ive seen quotes for BVH files that would raise what little hair I have on the back of my neck and models that were, seriously, in the hundreds of dollars for work that was maybe on par with some of the stuff we have here for a tenth the price.

Because I don't necessarily trust the comments associated with products, I usually won't buy anything from here over $15.00.<< Makes sense. But if you see a product you're interested in, but there's info you want before you buy, try emailing or IM-ing the merchant. Speaking for myself, I'd be happy to answer any questions a potential buyer might have - supply additional renders, whatever. It can only generate goodwill, even if you ultimately decided not to buy. At least that would be an informed choice. I daren't speak for every merchant in the MP, but I've never had a bad experience with any of them. And I've been in contact with many since I joined r'osity.

eirian's right... going the extra mile can only help, not hurt. OTOH, being the lazy sort I am, if it doesn't blow my dress up in the initial render images (figure of speech, folks), then unless I really feel the need for it, I usually won't investigate any further, unless there's something in there I really want ("need" doesn't figure in yet, because I only do this sort of thing for fun :) /P

They let the merchant filter out all bad comments. Then they won't let you return something when you're not happy with it. If they let some of those bad comments through maybe we could make more informed purchasing decisions. <<< Actually, if someone made ANY comments on my products after they'd purchased them, i'd be happy! So far, only one person out of all my customers has. And, you CAN get your money back from Renderosity--one of the very few places that does software downloads that will allow it! And if anyone has problems with anything i make, i sure hope they would IM or e-mail me, so that i would be sure to get to their problem as fast as possible. As for not liking commercial material in this forum... there are developers', character creators', and poser technical forum. And i doubt they get anything like the kind of traffic this one does...

I would just like to say 'what a civilised bunch' and I mean that as a genuine compliment. All different points of view, quite often disagreeing with each other and no nastiness. I was slightly trepidatious (without the aid of a spellchecker lol) about what kind of reception I'd get after my comments. While forums are like this we can get things done. Mon

Hi, This place only exists because edgenet/bondware make a profit, (or will realise on on the sale of the site) as such I'd expect that people will always post "adverts" here as it has a bigger readership than any "new" forum would have. Just as the galleries are always going to be full of stuff available in the store, becuse most people buy rather than make thier objects, etc. Besides which, if you've just bought something you're going to want to play, and show off :) I generally comment on stuff, my comments are often cryptic, and short, but I don't let that stop me :) The one thing I have noticed is that the hot20 has been the same for weeks. The one thing you notice is that images in there tend to get commented on a lot, far more than images that don't make the 20, go figure :) later jb