You know, I have been frequenting this place since it was PoserForum. It sure has come a LONG way over the years. I have seen this place and its people go through a million changes.. But I didnt think I would ever see the day when someone would be whining about people asking for free stuff. There are two things I think this site can thank for it's growth and success. 1) The community. The people here have always been so great. Enough said. 2) The free stuff. Because of all of you who donate your time and effort to make such cool props, clothes, models, textures, etc and give them away for free, this site has kept me and im sure thousands of others coming back every day. Who knows, without the free stuff section this site might have just deteriorated into yet another ghost town image gallery on the net. Now I come here and see someone griping about people asking for free stuff??? Bah! Thats just sad. People ask because there are a hell of a lot of free items out there and a lot of people making free stuff too. Why would anyone go straight to the market place to look for an item they want? It doesnt matter if you need it or want it badly.. That would be like going to the store to buy tap water when you were thirsty. Not only that, but free stuff is risk free. If you buy something, you are stuck with it no matter what. I dont know about you, but I have seen my friends buy more than enough market place items that were obviously hyped by the creator's friends to know better than jumping right in. If there is something I really need or want, you better darn well believe I am going to try and find a free one before I shell out any money for it. No ockham, it has nothing to do with the way of the internet. PS. Just because I know a few of you are snobs and have some strange idea in their head that a persons credibility is based on the amount of images/files/etc they have uploaded, ill help you out. My old user name is without the 1s (lost password/new email). But before you waste your time, I have not posted a single image to the gallery in 4 years (mainly because I never really finish any images or just make quickies for friends).

well said Freon but as you said this place has gone through a million changes most of them not good ones

"Who knows, without the free stuff section this site might have just deteriorated into yet another ghost town image gallery on the net." You've got a solid point there... though 3D Commune does much the same thing, yet it appears to be slowing down a lot by comparison. Not sure why that is (Hell, I'm a rank 3-months-along newbie around here,) but Free Stuff is not apparently the end-all and be-all of the deal. I will admit that when I first got here, I downloaded free stuff like an addict in Amsterdam, not really knowing what in hell it all was or where it went, just that it was damned cool and I might be able to put it to use somewhere. However, I get damned picky these days, given the fact that I don't think I can use everything I've got now, let alone things I'll see in tomorrow's edition of Free Stuff... I've also gotten to the point where I can make a decent share of of what I want/need from scratch. So why do I bother contributing to it? Because I never just take - I always try to give back, since it builds a far better community in the end. And perhaps, just perhaps, someone else will see it and think the same way I do, thereby picking up some inspiration and giving back as well. If you think it utopian/naive/whatever, cool; just don't get in between me and my work. Image galleries? Sorry - there's too many images pouring in for me to hit at anytime outside of the weekends duing idle hours... I'll peek around in there, but there's no way I have nearly enough time to peruse even a small percentage of 'em. "Just because I know a few of you are snobs and have some strange idea in their head that a persons credibility is based on the amount of images/files/etc they have uploaded, ill help you out" Interesting take, but I gotta rebut this argument - I tend to regard those who do contribute items, newbie assistance, and utilities (notice how I didn't mention images, since anyone can render one) in higher regard than most. I don't do it out of snobbery, I do it out of respect. It's along the same rules that I brought with me out of the FPS gaming community late last year - "You don't diss the DEV team without a damned good reason, because they're the only damned good reason that you're here in the first place." I got tired of flaming long ago, and this certainly isn't any such thing. Take this humble post as you will, as I'm just speaking plainly here. /P

Virts must just be having a bad week. Last night he/she complained about yet ANOTHER free faery. We all have our bad days.

Why would anyone go straight to the market place to look for an item they want? And if you bothered to actually read the thread instead of skimming, you'd see -- maybe -- that my gripe isn't with people asking for freestuff per se but almost adamantly refusing to do the work themselves when it's something relatively easy or when it's something that they could actually put to use later on. The money is irrelevant. The fact that there are people out there willing to give away their stuff is irrelevant. What is relevant is this, "Oh, I need such-and-such model, so someone just give it to me, huh?" attitude that I see around here sometimes. Not always, but more and more. Don't like it? Tough. I was under the impression that part of Renderosity was to learn, not just snatch and grab whatever you can for free and say to hell with anything else -- and that goes regardless of how many images you have in the galleries. Frankly, I doubt you want to hear my opinions on that issue, trust me.

Last night he/she complained about yet ANOTHER free faery You got me there. =) But let's not go there, okay? LOL

Ok! Sounds fair to me. ;-)

Last time I asked for a free model (or a Marketplace one; I needed it) someone nice (Cybermonk) made it for me, just for fun. I did a texture for it; tried to make a decent one. It's now in Freestuff for all. That was a very nice experienceasking if anyone knew where such a thing was (and yes, I had searched), next thing I knew having a WIP pic posted to the thread: 'like this'? That's one of the wonderful things that can happen in a community like this one.

VirtualSite, maybe some of the things you've seen requested are easy for you, but it certainly isn't easy for everyone. I can't model at all. I can hack together some textures though. But that doesn't matter, if I need something really really bad, I ask or I buy it. Why? Because I can and it's easier, if I couldn't then their wouldn't be much point to me owning poser would there? Frankly it is getting old watching people bitch every two seconds about one segment of this community or another.

Frankly it is getting old watching people bitch every two seconds about one segment of this community or another. Oh please, give it a life, huh? There's a subtle difference, maybe even too subtle for some people around here, between asking for something for free and asking for it as though it were yours by divine writ. In case you hadn't figured it out by now, that's the segment I take issue with. If you're part of that group, then get used to my bitchin'. And just as frankly, it's getting really old hearing people say, "Because it's easier". Have a nice day, huh? =)

"asking for something for free and asking for it as though it were yours by divine writ. In case you hadn't figured it out by now, that's the segment I take issue with." yes I agree completely but to be honest having just had a good look through the last few days threads I can't find any messages as you describe. I see, occasionly, people asking politely where they can find certain items or, in a few cases, messages that are written by people who's main language is not English and, therefore, can appear to be a little forthright but nowhere can I find the people that you describe. If you can provide a few examples perhaps we can adress these individuals and perhaps help them to see the error of their ways.

Never mind. I feel like I'm talking to walls today. And in the Grand Scheme of Things, it probably doesn't matter, does it...

Okay...like, points taken...But do any of the rest of you get ims from folks with gaming sites...asking you to do stuff for them for free....Oh, pardon me...for the "exposure" from putting your stuff on their sites? That gets on my last nerve, doncha know...yeah...let me run on home and make graphics gratis for someone's site so folks can see 'em. As for asking for links to freestuff....Well, I totally need a wonderful model of a sailing ship...a tall ship sort of ship...really beautiful....I tried to model it myself, but, it came out sorta suckie...I asked for a link to one in the bryce forum. do i need to go to confession on saturday, for this infraction? maybe, it is not what you do, or ask for; but, how you ask. Just a thought Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

it is not what you do, or ask for; but, how you ask. Thank you.

OMG - Poppi - I got one of those last week - an RPG gaming site, right? I asked them the site URL (so I can see what it was about) and never heard back from them. I figured, what the hey, I still love online games and still play them occasionally. I'm not going to do a contract job for free, but I thought it was worth a look... To be honest, I don't buy the "exposure" angle either. My career is primarily in operating systems and networking - artwork is mere fun for me :) /P

I do so love fantasy

You are very welcome, VS. It is a sad state of affairs when we must encounter "virtual" jack-you-up folks. And, sadly, I don't think this will get any better. Worse. We are a world in chaos. Manners are often the first thing to go. Keep Good, Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Yeah- but nothing beats a big ol' rocket launcher :) I used to be a HUGE D&D fan as a kid (it was quite new at the time - I'm 32 now), but I haven't played any since I left the US Air Force over 10 years ago. I saw EverCrack (heh - couldn't resist), but never really dug the "pay for play" thing they had going on in multiplayer, so I stayed in the Quake (then UT) realm of gaming. /P

I'm new here too. :) I'm struggeling my way up the learning curve, - and there are so many things and programs to learn. 3D modelling, Bryce, Poser... with all that implies. Luckily I was pretty good with Photoshop and other 2D editing tools, - and I have had a (now outdated) 3D program that I've played with for several years. Still the environment here is NICE. I get a lot of good advices. I have gotten a lot of free stuff, - and now, - that I've moved a bit up the learning ladder, I really feel that I would like to give something back. I do think that that's how the majority sees it. That is what makes the environment here special. I tend to overlook the "gimme gimme" posts. I read them, - and sometimes I can see that they're not really "demanding", - they're just written by people who, - like me, has English as our second language, - and that we sometimes screw up the correct wording. :) I don't feel like I want to use a lot of energy on negative stuff. I'm grateful for the positivism, - and try to overlook the negativism. There will always be negative people, - in any community. Online communities are no different. I think that the best thing we can do is to stay positive. Learn what we can. Give back when we can, - and enjoy what we are doing. I am certainly VERY grateful for finding this place. Britt

Yup, Penguin...that would be the same one. Even if I didn't do mainly 10-11 hour days at my real world biz...I would have said "NO". So glad to find I was not the only one.

"it is not what you do, or ask for; but, how you ask. I still agree but as I said I cannot find anyone like you describe. "Oh, I need such-and-such model, so someone just give it to me, huh?" attitude that I see around here sometimes. Not always, but more and more." who? where?

I wanted to clarify one thing. Im not saying we need to simply cater to a freeloaders every request. Obviously people make stuff and give it away because they enjoy it. If it becomes a burden, the spirit of the whole idea is lost. Virtual, "..adamantly refusing to do the work themselves when it's something relatively easy or when it's something that they could actually put to use later on." Come off it. What a pompous and asinine statement. You are assuming WAAAAAY too much. Simply opening and using or even learning to use a modelling application is not "easy" to most people. I have home-built my own computers for 9 years. It's easy, to me. Some of my friends, on the other hand, dont know a harddrive from a damn CPU. Should I expect it to be easy to everyone and just make all my friends and relatives do it themselves? When someone brings me a box of components you wont catch me shoving it back in their face telling them to do it themselves. Just remember that most people use Poser for FUN, and while it may be fun for some to create the entire image from the models up, that isnt fun for others. Obviously if someone is begging for free stuff to be used in a commercial realm (like Poppi's example) that is another story.

What a pompous and asinine statement. Whatever, dude. It's my POV. Get over it.

"What a pompous and asinine statement" This is inappropriate language for this forum. Please be careful how you word things here. ScottA

I have had poser for about 9 months now and only found out about this site about 3 or so ago. Before that I spent the big bucks at Daz for all my models for variety. What a joy it was to find freebies. Initially I was addicted to them too. But I also became intrigued with the Poser forum. I have a notebook where I take notes, I have numerous tutorial pages in my favorites file, and about 10 stickies on my desktop of information I gather here. With this information I have begun making my own textures, and darned if I haven't made a couple of simple obj's in Bryce and imported them to Poser. I was so proud of myself, I made my whole family come look. I even started making entries for some of the contests around here. Though I haven't uploaded any freebies yet (confidence level not there yet), I look through threads and try to be helpful when I know the answer or have an idea. The freebies are just the icing now for me. I think it takes time for people like myself to work their way up the ladder so to speak. Everyone has been so helpful to me. I appreciate all I have gotten here and have started working toward giving back. Hell, when I am finally ready to give out a freebie, I'll probably just e-mail it to you all (I don't have a website yet). Just try to be more understanding please. Most of us will become members of good standing in this community one day. Give us time. Barbara PS I agree about people who's first language isn't English seeming a but rude at times. I think some of the politeness gets lost in translation.

Just like it was predicted... once the C&D was closed, threads like this moved to other forums. There's something like this in the Poser forum every day now. sigh

Well, this is the second longest post I have seen, Scott you are doing a good job moderating this, my hat is off to you. With regard to my self, when I first started I too only new of DAZ, SPENT LOTS OF CASH, found a place here, and just felt like I came home. The people here are wonderful and helpful, only right to give back to this place for helping welcome Mike and me, we love giving freebies to all, what we like most of all, is seeing them being used. We know how to model mechanical things and sometimes I need something that is more organic, we don't do that, so I come here, and usually find it and thank you to those freebies. I am sure lots of people try those 3D modeling programs and it is harder than it looks, just like texturing is harder than it looks. Takes time to learn, and if there is a freebie around to help, it is great. There are of course those people who will never buy anything, (for whatever reason)but on the other hand there are lots of people who do give back in some form or another. Again that is just my two cents, thanks again Scott for keeping an eye on things, you do great work. Sharen

Sorry Scott. I didnt realize common non-profane English vocabulary would be considered inappropriate by you. Glad I replaced the words I used at first. :)

Yep Eowyn. I like debating a bit about some of the thornier Poser and community issues, but the attacks that have seeped into the Poser forum are pretty crazy. Closing C&D was a horrid idea.

Thank you Sharen. Yes 1Freon1. When C&D closed. It was extremly important that I keep things under control here. That means no harsh words at all. PERIOD. I'm letting people get OT occasionally since they don't have anywhere else to post. So to keep this place under control. I'm afraid I'm going to be acting like a mother hen. ;-) ScottA

I've asked Scott to delete my original thread on this subject. It wasn't my intention to turn this place into yet another C&D, nor was it my intention to suggest some sort of wholesale slam against people who use freestuff. I was originally talking about a small group -- the "Poser slackers", if you will -- and somehow venting my frustration over that was transformed into things I never intended for this place. Words can be such traitors sometimes, creating impressions that aren't intended. I've always been in awe of people who can model at the drop of a hat, because I can't do crap when it comes to that sort of thing. I've never understood the mystery of building conforming clothing or even smart props. And anyone around here who knows me knows that's true. I can marginally texture, but like everyone else, I'm still learning. So to anyone who felt I was adopting some higher-than-thou stance about modelling and textures, my apologies. It was never intended. In the future, I'll remember to keep my yap shut. It is probably the best way, period. Sean

That's cool Scott. Sorry for the harsh reply. I also apologize to you Sean. Didnt mean to turn this into anything personal.

Personally, I can't believe that the Free Stuff section even exists! Yes, there are many web sites where one or more models or objects or textures or whatever can be downloaded without charge, but the length and breadth of the offerings at this site is absolutely staggering!

I want to take this opportunity to thank every one for his or her contribution(s) and, hopefully some day, will find a way to repay the kindness and generosity you have shown to me and my students.