"I have to agree with your assement Mike of his disposition, it is a waste of time trying to talk to someone who thinks that they are a Martyr... Jack" Yes, I agree. I hope I never run into someone who fits that description.

Of course, this is a pointless question, since we're all in agreement around here at least about one thing, but.... see what I mean? ;)

Just when this thread had been resolved, the toilet overflows again. Oh well, best to just ignore it all and work on my new character instead. Coming soon: My new character "Don". He's a fat, ugly and useless annoyance to the world. Come watch him display his stupidity while his family is forced to support the parasite. The funniest thing about Don is that he doesn't even know what a loser he is, despite the preponderance of evidence. If anyone would like to help with the project, I'm looking for story lines depicting situations that you imagine Don might become involved in.

Attached Link: http://silvermage.net/3d/buckrogers/spatrl.html

welcomesite, Anthony Appleyard "Coming soon: My new character "Don". He's a fat, ugly and useless annoyance to the world. Come watch him display his stupidity while his family is forced to support the parasite. The funniest thing about Don is that he doesn't even know what a loser he is, despite the preponderance of evidence." *** That has to be one of the most uncalled for, cruel statements ever made here. You have some nerve. The only evidence seen around here is that some people don't know a damned thing about having a civilized conversation. I've never treated anyone like this in all my time here. Why don't you go somewhere and cool off, and return when you feel more like talking?! *** Oh, Legume, I love the fact that at least half of the people who left comments on your front page story agree with me! I read your interview thinking that maybe I'd see a side of you that overcame my previous impressions. I wasn't really suprised to see you made a farce out of the interview.

He said 'Don', not 'Ron'. Gosh, why do think he meant you? Guilty conscience?

Some people always think they are so interesting that other just have to talk about them.....

To clariy >>MY<< position again (which started this whole discussion: I don't oppose Legume, I am not taking any sides. As far as him winning Artist of the month, that is not the issue, I'm sure the people that voted for him are great fans of his artwork. The issue for me, which has been made clear during the process of this entire thread is the motivation behind his artwork. It boils down to either: 1 - Irresponsible disregard for sensitive issues (which if you live and interact in a social community is a skill that is much prefered) 2 - Or bigotry, predjudice, superiority, hate. The other thing I realized in this whole process is that Legume has not and will not admit to being in the second category. Which I didn't expect. In one of my previous posts I gave him the benefit of the doubt of being a just a whacky guy that means no harm. But that hasn't been confirmed either. So what gauge do we use to say something is inappropriate? Network television is usually considered about 5 or 10 years behind the times when it comes to what is socially acceptable (in language and behavior) But I don't think I would ever see his work on TV even in the next 10 years.

"He said 'Don', not 'Ron'. Gosh, why do think he meant you? Guilty conscience? " **** Oh jeepers, now we have the games. Insult someone and deny it. Here's a quote from TOS (These rules have been flagrantly violated countless times.): Members/Users will not use this community for; Any practices that affect the normal operations of the community (Admins will take whatever steps are necessary to restore service). Transmitting any libelous, defamatory, or any other material that could give rise to any civil or criminal liability under the law. Personal attacks. This includes but is not limited to, destructive, abusive or defamatory communications in any form. Destructive commentary/communications (Trolling). "

Hmm. Just for giggles, I went and checked on Ron's assertion that "at least half of the people who left comments on your front page story agree with me". OK, when I checked, 47 comments. 35 were congratulating me. 7 were upset. 5 didn't say either way. OK, that's about half, I guess, if I use the new "Ron Math". OK, Ronny, wrap your head around this: if so many people agree with you, why did I win?

I suspect many people didn't bother to vote. I suspect as well that you and your supporters managed to "stuff the ballot box" like you did with the Top20. At the time I read the comments, it was about half and half. I had not read them again till you posted your little insult. I did go back and take a tally. It doesn't agree with yours. Of course it was hard to tell how some people felt about you, even after I read the messages. I do know that some messages in that area have been eliminated before they were seen publicly. I was rather surprised that my comment was axed, since it was far milder than some that have already been posted.

"Network television is usually considered about 5 or 10 years behind the times when it comes to what is socially acceptable (in language and behavior) But I don't think I would ever see his work on TV even in the next 10 years" Well, let's just examine that. Mad TV did a skit a few years ago where the Terminator goes back in time to stop Jesus from being crucified. Jesus kept having to bring Judas back to life because the Terminator kept killing him. At the end, Jesus is crucified, as the Terminator sits in the crowd saying, "He'll be back". Comedy Central shows South Park, where Jesus, Hitler, and any other cultural icon gets blasted all the time. Monty Python's Life of Brian. Self-explanatory. Mel Brooks' Hitler on Ice, The Producers, and Blazing Saddles. I guess because Brooks didn't depict Hitler in the approved light of "bad man", he must be anti-semitic. I imagine, as an anti semitic Jew, his life must be quite complex. And the fact that he used the word "nigger" throughout Blazing Saddles must mean that he hates blacks as well. Seems to me that I'm in pretty good company. It's not that my work is outrageous at all, really. The problem is that many of YOU are SERIOUSLY UPTIGHT. And you know what? I don't give a damn. The fact is, I'm here, my work is enjoyed by many people, and if you don't like it, tough shit. Don't look at it. The fact that some (a very few)of you would be so very happy to run me off and stop (the many)people who enjoy my work from seeing it shows YOU to be the kind of person who Renderosity doesn't need; a small group of self-appointed Saviors of the Community whose loud and incessant bleating is really irritating to people like me who come here to enjoy ourselves. What's your motivation? You all know there's only one person here named Legume, and you know goddamned well who I am. So if you look at my artwork and get offended, knowing who I am and what I do, you have absolutely no right to BITCH, any more than if you keep sticking your hand in fire over and over and crying about getting burned. And yet you do. Because that's WHY you look at it. You ENJOY the burn. You WANT something to complain about. If that's your motivation, then I feel really sorry for you and the sad, miserable lives you must lead. Why the hell don't you people just drop this crusade already, and let people make their own decisions about what they want to see or not see? For Christ's sake, you sound like a pack of old puritan grandmothers waving their bibles and screaming about women showing their ankles. If you're so upset that I'm artist of the month, maybe you should consider the LARGE part you played in getting me there.

Huh? Are you saying that you fit the description of my new character? If so, do you think that you have a copyright on those 'qualities'.. and that no one else can be so blessed? How do you know I wasn't talking about Legume?

"I suspect as well that you and your supporters managed to "stuff the ballot box" like you did with the Top20." Prove it. The admins here have no reason to want me as AOM. In fact, it's going to make their jobs hard, because of malcontents like you. In fact, I'd be willing to bet they checked REAL CLOSE to make sure that I won legitimately. The only stuffing that went on was them stuffing their votes in the box, expressing through their legit votes their opinion as to who they think should win. That's their right, just like it's yours. In the future, I encourage you to follow their lead; take your opinion and stuff it.

PZRITE: YEAH, WAY UP THERE- CAN YOU HEAR ME? ;] If I saw an image that really offended me, you know, I would probably shake my head, and wonder at some people, but other than that- do nothing. Unless it was in a sufficient context to actually presage the possibility that it implies action- I saw once where someone had painted an intersection sign to look like a shwastika- I immediately went to the nearby Jewish Community Center (they have a great gym) and told them. They unpainteed it. I have a teendency to jump to conclusions at times- when I first started posting here, I got into it in a minor way with Legume. I realised, however, that I was hitting people over the head with my standards, which doesn't work. During that, Legume was never once rude, and I have come to see him as intelligent, posessing of an odd view, and somewhat likely to go off when virulently attacked (like who isn't.) RonKnighs, for deity-of-your-choice's sake, chill. So you got an IM that was rude- that doesn't mean you have to go into a sustained fit. You're only going to wear yourself out, and not accomplish anything, other than to make people cringe when they see your name in a thread. I'm not saying this to be hateful, though you may take it that way- I just like you alot better when you make sense. Your constant attacks on Legume are getting ridiculous. If you are after something, say it! What do you want from this situation? You seem to be very skilled at walking into a conversation and inciting people as much as possible, merely for the purpose of turning it into what you percieve as a personal attack against you. This then gives you the right to lash out in whatever manner in your "defense". However, that's kind of like stepping into the road and fighting the cars because they tried to run you over. Well, duh!

Legume, "Prove it. The admins here have no reason to want me as AOM." The admins didn't cast their votes. The artists did. The issue of your taking over the Hot20 has been well documented in previous threads. You got hotly involved in the conversations so I'm sure you remember them. *** "That's their right, just like it's yours. In the future, I encourage you to follow their lead; take your opinion and stuff it." This is exactly why I object to your getting AOM. It has nothing to do with your art, even though I dislike it intensely. It has to do with your overtly hostile, un-disciplined, abusive attitude. **** Micheleh, "RonKnighs, for deity-of-your-choice's sake, chill. So you got an IM that was rude- that doesn't mean you have to go into a sustained fit." I guess you missed the description of the behavior? I received several harassing IM's, and emails. The guy threatened to come to my house and settle the argument!!!! That is not only a violation of TOS, but it is illegal. I don't see how anyone can minimize or condone that behavior, no matter what the provocation. "I'm not saying this to be hateful, though you may take it that way-" I understand "I just like you alot better when you make sense." I'm making perfect sense here. I object to people who make it a habit of abusing others. I object to knowing that Legume was "elected" AOM. That means one whole month of that knowledge. "Your constant attacks on Legume are getting ridiculous. If you are after something, say it! What do you want from this situation?" I'd love to hear Legume say that he is sorry. I'd love to hear him say that he was wrong with his hostility towards others, that others have a right to disagree, without being degraded or threatened. I'd love to see Legume remember who he was and what he did before he decided to embark on his latest crusades. I doubt those wishes would ever be realized. Ron

Micheleh wrote: ".....I saw once where someone had painted an intersection sign to look like a shwastika- I immediately went to the nearby Jewish Community Center (they have a great gym) and told them. They unpainteed it." Okay, so this is my point. Why did you take action in this instance? Because you know what that symbol represents. Does it matter if it was some high school kid that painted it as a prank or if it was the KKK spreading a message of hate. No, it doesn't really matter, the end result is that the very sight of it is not socially acceptable (except maybe in the history books) Legume: I am a big fan of Mel Brooks and I loved The Producers, however it did jolt me a little bit to see Hitler dancing around. I didn't complain because I know Mel Brooks doesn't hate Jews, because he is one. His MOTIVATION was innocent. This reminds me of the recent Boston Public episode where they discussed when and where the N word is acceptable (notice I don't type it out, because the word itself is offensive). It seems that it's okay that African American people can use that word with each other, but the eyebrows get raised when a white person uses the word, simply because most of the time, when it comes out of the white person's mouth it has feelings of prejudice or hate attached to it. Once again, it seems to me that your motivation is not one of hate, so as far as I'm concerned the matter is dropped. You're a weird strange guy with a warped sense of humor, that somehow likes to get us sensitive people all tied up in knots. But I appreiciate you indulging me (sort of) and not personally attacking me, which I tried not to do to you.

Good enuff.

"I'm making perfect sense here." To you, maybe. "I object to people who make it a habit of abusing others." So do I. You should stop. "I object to knowing that Legume was "elected" AOM." That's how every AOM has ever been picked. Keep up your attacks, Ron, please. Artist of the Year will be arouind before you know it. "That means one whole month of that knowledge." Hmmm. I think I see your problem. Most folks retain knowledge longer than that. "I'd love to hear Legume say that he is sorry." OK. I'm sorry that you don't like my art. In the future, I suggest you exercise the optionm of not looking at it. "I'd love to hear him say that he was wrong with his hostility towards others, that others have a right to disagree, without being degraded or threatened." There you go, lying AGAIN. I never threatened anyone, and I'm sure if I ask you for proof, you'll just change the subject as you always do when called on your bullshit. "I'd love to see Legume remember who he was and what he did before he decided to embark on his latest crusades." I've always been posting art here that's controversial. There was no "before". "I doubt those wishes would ever be realized." And even if they were, you still wouldn't be satisfied, because that means you'd have to shut the hell up, which you have no plans to do.

"I suspect as well that you and your supporters managed to "stuff the ballot box" like you did with the Top20" See, Ron, here is a perfect example (actually one of many) of why more and more, people don't want to try to have any sort of conversation with you: Your "facts" are wrong, yet you state them with such authority. While it's true that there were a few people during the early days of the magic Pink Pony who did create new accounts and voted for the Hot20, those few votes were inconsequential, and were removed, and warnings about it sent out, and yet, there were still enough votes left to keep them there. And I can assure you that the same thing was watched for during the voting for AOM. The comment about half the people commenting on Legume's win is another example.

Your check should be arriving shortly.

"Okay, so this is my point. Why did you take action in this instance?" It's about context. There is a difference between an interpreable(sp?) media (art) being displayed in a place meant for it (with attendant content warnings), and defacement of public signs. I still have the photo I took of that somewhere- if I put the photo in my gallery, it would be art. RonKnights, if Legume's actions were as evil as that, by all means, have the man arrested, banned, whatever you can do. You say you have evidence. Why not use it? Back up your accusations. Or admit you are unwilling to do so, and retract them.

"I'd love to see Legume remember who he was and what he did before he decided to embark on his latest crusades" LOL!!! Oh no you don't! What you've been seeing is like, Legume Lite here, man! Even the rudest stuff as of late is tame in comparison...

Glad all that is settled. Hypothetical question: If a repulsive person is impotent.. and unable to make their own children, should they be allowed to create content that attempts to lure children into their clutches, similar to a 'Michael Jackson'?

Now where's my check? ;]

WS- what do you mean, allowed? You don't allow anyone to make anything. What would matter would be any action they commit which could be considered child molestation, unless you refer to the creation of child pornography, which is a very different matter. Both are illegal. The creation of art of unspecified content is not. Otherwise, we would have to arrest anyone who makes hentai. You cannot prevent any sort of crime by forbidding people any means of expression which presents their interpretation of the crime or its rammifications, if that be lterature or art.

welcomesite, "Hypothetical question: If a repulsive person is impotent.. and unable to make their own children, should they be allowed to create content that attempts to lure children into their clutches, similar to a 'Michael Jackson'?" *** Oh please. You know darned well who you're talking about here. You know darned well that comment is uncalled for, and totally inappropriate for this community and this forum. This type of behavior merely confirms my charges that Legume and his friends are far more abusive than anyone who opposes them. **** I take my children's poetry and art very seriously. That work is far more valuable than a series of "in your face" cartoons. It is one thing to thumb your nose at me, and hurl childish insults. It is another thing to compare me with an alleged child molestor. I thought you folks had already sunken as low as you can go. Once again, you proved me wrong. Legume is Artist Of the Month? Renderosity has literally gone to HELL. *** Micheleh, "RonKnights, if Legume's actions were as evil as that, by all means, have the man arrested, banned, whatever you can do. You say you have evidence. Why not use it? Back up your accusations. Or admit you are unwilling to do so, and retract them." You're getting your facts mixed up. Dendras made the physical threats, while Legume merely said F*ck you, and called me and others names. As for evidence, that is readily available if you care to see it. I've already provided that evidence, and pointed people to it when they apparently missed it. That is one good thing about locked threads. The evidence remains, even though the conversation was ended. That is, unless those threads were since deleted. If you don't care to do some research, you need only read this very thread to see evidence of my charges against Legume. But you will only see what you wish to see. Again, your very actions only serve to confirm the charges I've made. Thanks for your cooperation. Ron

"That work is far more valuable than a series of "in your face" cartoons." See, this is why you feel so out of place here: You just don't get it. You don't understand even the smallest thing about art. You think it's hgot to ba all happyy-happy-joy-joy, Love, Sunshine, rainbows and pretty pictures that "mean" something positive. Tt CAN be, and I'm glad that it is, art also, for centuries now, has also had a dark, disturbing facade, too. Both forms are equally valid, and whether art is viewed as positive or negative is up to the viewer alot of the time. Now, go ahead and prove me right by saying something so lacking in insight that even my kitty will be embarassed if she hears it.

"That work is far more valuable than a series of "in your face" cartoons." Willikers! He actually came out and said he was 'better' than Legume. How does one quntify the value of art? Ron, please provide a chart.

I'm good enough I'm smart enough and gosh darn it people like me

You fail to understand that no person has the right to hide behind his art and insult, abuse or threaten others. That type of behavior should never be rewarded. *** You fail to understand how hard I've tried to keep my part of this conversation in a civilized tone. Not once have I told someone to f*ck themselves, or threatened anyone. The closest I've come is to say my art is better or has more value than Legume's. His art comes with a price that is not acceptable. My detractors, on the other hand, have broken every rule in the book.

Notice me! Notice me!!!

"Dendras made the physical threats, while Legume merely said F*ck you, and called me and others names." LOL. My bad- you shouldn't snipe two people in the same thread, it's confusing. Arrest dendras, ignore legume. There. "But you will only see what you wish to see. Again, your very actions only serve to confirm the charges I've made. Thanks for your cooperation." Nothing will convince you that the sole purpose of this thread, and even some artists' existence isn't to personally wound you, will it? That's sad. You've incited your argument. Do you feel righteous enough for one day, now?

"The closest I've come is to say my art is better or has more value than Legume's. His art comes with a price that is not acceptable." Thank you! You really made my cat's day! Now if I can only get her to stop laughing.....

Ron, I've seen your art. It's boring and pedestrian. It didn't make me think, it didn't make me cry, it didn't make me feel good or bad. It didn't make me feel at all, one way or another. Legume's art, on the other hand, always makes me feel something - whether it's anger, disgust, curiosity, whatever, it still makes me FEEL and that's why I think it's much better than your art. And that, for ME, is the whole purpose of art. If it doesn't speak to me in some way, if it doesn't grab my attention, engage my emotions somehow, then it's just not what I would call art and has absolutely no value to me whatsoever. Kate (who did NOT vote for Legume for AOM, btw, because AOM is not something I find important at all)

"Nothing will convince you that the sole purpose of this thread, and even some artists' existence isn't to personally wound you, will it? That's sad. You've incited your argument. Do you feel righteous enough for one day, now?" I don't feel that way. *** I've just gone back over this thread and noticed how many other people found problems with Legume and his attitude. The difference is that the others walked away. Most likely they realized there is no way to discuss this in a rational and civilized manner.

Now is the time for what I believe to be my concise summary argument: "Like, whatever." ;]

"Legume merely said F*ck you" Yes, I did, and the person to whom I said it, Virus, publicly apologised to me afterwards. Yet YOU, who had nothing at all to do with the exchange, keep throwing it up as if I said it to YOU. I have NOT said it to you, but rest assured I certainly think it every time I see your name on my screen. And you STILL haven't shown where I threatened anyone.

"I've just gone back over this thread and noticed how many other people found problems with Legume and his attitude." Yet more lies? I just reread the thread and see no post, other than pzrite's, that didn't support Legume. Even pzrite has basically apologized for his inflammatory first post and has made his peace, showing that he has respect for Legume. If you want to 'count' things in this thread, try counting the people who have respect for you.

Ron, you should have just taken my advice in post #45, and gotten yourself out of this thread. Your ideas of how things should be around here would work great on an art site run by Barney, but you will never be taken seriously around here, as long as you communicate like a kid, yrt think you can discuss things with the adults. And you WILL always have this same problem in EVERY thread, and you DO. Why do you suppose that is? Part of the larger conspiracy to mess with Ron? or maybe, Could there be an actual, tangible reason why you always end up in this same situation over and over again? Do yourself a favor and give up. You can't win, and it's not because you're surrounded by Legume fans either. I'm not a Legume fan; although I've LMAO over some of his pics past and present, I wanted to see roobol win AOM, and that's who I voted for. So it's not because we're all a part of Legume's gang that we have a problem dealing with you, it's because we're adults. Not just physically, but emotionally and mentally, as well. Reality is a good thing. You should look into it one day.

Exactly, I'm repeatedly accused of being part of Legume's 'so called conspiracy'.. but I didn't vote for him either, or for any of his pics to make the Top20. The 'common element' that many of us share is not our consipracy with Legume.. but rather our disgust for someone else.

"Your ideas of how things should be around here would work great on an art site run by Barney, but you will never be taken seriously around here, as long as you communicate like a kid, yrt think you can discuss things with the adults." "So it's not because we're all a part of Legume's gang that we have a problem dealing with you, it's because we're adults. Not just physically, but emotionally and mentally, as well. Reality is a good thing. You should look into it one day. " Being an adult doesn't mean you need to act like a child. You don't need to swear at, abuse, threaten, degrade those you disagree with. In fact, being an adult is quite different. That last statement was indeed very childish. ***

I'm sorry. I'm in a bad mood because I haven't had my nap yet, and my sister's hogging my Legos.

Ron, for the record... it's RENDEROSITY and not RONDEROSITY!!!

Oh this surely must be something out of the Barney Show: "Member/User Conduct: "Members and users are asked to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships. "Members/Users will not use this community for; Any practices that affect the normal operations of the community (Admins will take whatever steps are necessary to restore service). Transmitting any libelous, defamatory, or any other material that could give rise to any civil or criminal liability under the law. Personal attacks. This includes but is not limited to, destructive, abusive or defamatory communications in any form. Destructive commentary/communications (Trolling). "

Tha't some great rhetoric there, Ron ol' bean! Thanks for posting it for the 'umpteenth' time.

All this talk has me inspired to create my first "super villain." He's green, has a big head, and has a most obnoxious attitude. This character is always thumbing his nose at people, and when they object, he puffs up, spit runs out of his mouth, and he swears till he almost passes out. What will I call this character? Leg.... Oh, how about Vegetable Man?!

How about we don't continue down this path?

giggles personally I think ronknights is amazing. I never liked Legume's art much but now thanks to him I'm starting to see it with new eyes. Legume couldn't really ask for better help than Ron indeed. :)