Attached Link: http://www.mindvision.com/pricing/shareware.asp

Okay Guys... I have been given the Installer VISE program by MindVision (the same installer DAZ uses when creating their installs). This is the "shareware" version of the installer. From their website, they will offer the shareware version to "qualified" shareware and freeware developers. "MindVision wants to encourage developers who need a leg up, and so we've established a program by which qualifying shareware and freeware developers can use Installer VISE for free. If you're just getting started by pouring your energies into your shareware or freeware products, read on. 1. Download Installer VISE (You'll be downloading fully functional, but unlicensed versions of Installer VISE.) 2. Include the text below in your documentation. 3. Build your installer. 4. Fill out and submit the form below. Submit one form per product. 5. We normally process requests on Fridays. 6. If all goes well, we will e-mail a serial number valid for one year to you within two weeks. 7. Use the serial number to build your final installer." I am posting this for a couple of reason: First - I prefer the DAZ installs to the Zips that are currently used for most "third-party" add-ons in the Poser (read R'sity) Community. They are easier, and look nicer. Second - I want to support this company (MindVision) because they do want to help "the little guy" get a good start. And I figure anyone that uses it (hopefully) will eventually gain the capital to purchase the full version. Third - (selfish reason, LOL) I hope to build some sort of "user community" that can share tips on creating the installers. So, Please.. check this out... download and register the shareware, and lets see if we can create some really cool installers!! Thanks for reading! - Lee

This is fine for free stuff, but I don't believe the shareware version is available for use on for sale items....

Geesh, I hadn't realized I hit tab when I hit enter lol Anyhow, I think it's a great thing for the freebies - but it would definitely get people used to it and some vendors are just too small to be able to afford teh commercial version of it. And then where would everyone be? We'd have to learn how to install files again ;-/

A reason against the use of such an installer: As a Mac user Im glad as i am able to open and convert ZIP files. I cannot handle EXEs except for self extructing archives (these are others than te EXEs created by this installer). So in order to buy and use stuff I need "Macintosh EXEs" which have to be created by the vendor (like DAZ). And Im afraid that this will cause a lot of merchants that use PC not to produce for Macs. So please - zip your files. Dont EXE us Mac users out! Thanks Sascha

Attached Link: http://www.mindvision.com/pricing/shareware.asp

According to my correspondence with the people at MindVision, it will work for "sale items" (they would fall under the "shareware" category). I was very upfront in my email to them in not wanting to violate anything in using the program to create texture packs, character add-ons, props, etc., for sale (specifically mentioned Renderosity as a sale source). And they had no issue with selling the installs for such use. As for MAC, there is a MAC version as well, and with the number of Mac users here, I would think (hope) that the PC users, and MAC users could get together and create MAC installs and PC installs to offer both for a single item. I guess this may be a "pie in the sky" wish, but I did want to share what info I have gotten in the hopes of being able to offer "high(er) quality" installs here on R'sity. If you have any questions on the Installer Program, I urge you to contact MindVision. Seriously, they have been nothing but extremely helpful to me. For MAC: macsupport@mindvision.com For PC: winsupport@mindvision.com As for having to learn how to install files again, I understand everyone wont use the Installer, so there will still be zip files for third-party items. Its just my opinion that if you have, what you consider to be, a High Quality item you want to sell (or give away), making it easy to use (and pretty too I might add), it just makes a nicer package as a whole. Thanks again... - Lee

I personally hate the Daz installers because they put items where they want to put them, not where you want to put them. Maybe I'm biased because I make a program that installs Poser zips, but I prefer retaining control of my library.

hmmm... it seems contrary that retail items would fall under "shareware" but I will contact them at the link you provided, thnx

hmmm... it seems contrary that retail items would fall under "shareware" but I will contact them at the link you provided, thnx

ok, I called them on the phone. The general response is that if what you are offering in the installer can be modified by the one who downloaded it and you are not part of a company (I can not use the shareware version because I own 3-D Arena) that deals/sells the items (you don't do this for a living but basically do this on the side), you can use the ShareWare version. You can even submit your installer version to brokerages like 3-D Arena and so presumably 'rosity. I checked to be sure that if vendors submitted an item that had used the installer it was legal, and they said it is.

Thank you LadySilverMage! I do, in all sincerity, hope that at least some of the users here will use the info provided... Thanks again for the interest in this post and the messages thus far contributed... - Lee (** Big Grin on my face right now! **)

Installers are intrusive, and some dishonest individuals and companies will try to sneak spyware and server software into an install, so many people will prefer to install components themselves. Why not give them that choice, rather than force them to use a piece of software with dubious benefits and possible risks?

hmmm.... do you consider it intrusive that DAZ uses teh same software for their install? Not picking just curious.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Make sure your CUSTOMERS (remember them?) want this before you start doing it.

I guess I'm more of an optimist (naive). I know there are people out there that do that sort of thing, but my experience on R'sity has really been a good one. IMO, I hope that the members here don't (won't) do things of that nature... And, like I wrote previously, I know not everyone will use this software. I'm just trying to make the existence of it available for those who may be interested. If it turns out that there is no interest, it will fall away as a forgotten post, and I'll offer my products (when I finish them, hehe) in an installer format (PC), Zip Format (for those untrusting of such installers, and MAC users if I cannot produce one), and a MAC format (if I can get a MAC user to create such a file). Yes, the process will be "tedious" and a little more time consuming to produce all formats, but I am a bit of a perfectionist, and want my product to be useful. So I'll go through the steps, and do it "right" (in my mind). I think there are others that have that "perfectionist" mindset, and I hope they can see what I'm trying to accomplish with this... Cheers! - Lee

Ok, for the record, when I use any of the DAZ or other installers, I install to somewhere OTHER than my Poser directory. Then I MANUALLY move the files to the folders where I keep them. Now, this may seem like a small thing to a lot of people, but the whole process of doing this annoys the living daylights out of me. Especially when I have to go through and delete camera settings folders, mat file folders, lighting folders (I don't use camera settings, light settings or mat files for my work) documentation folders, etc, etc, etc. Zip files allow me to only install what I WANT to install, without requiring me to delete the extraneous junk that people include with their products. (I'm not say they shouldn't, since I know quite a few people DO use the light and camera stuff, I'm just saying that I should be able to pick and choose what I take out of the package and put on my computer). I FREAKIN' HATE THE DARN EXE INSTALLERS!! There, next time I won't hold back, I promise g Kate

To KateTheShrew, markdc, and nyar1ath0tep... This installer allows you to create the installer to let the customer pick and choose. The Installers that DAZ creates do not. But that isn't a limitation to the program, just how DAZ has chosen to implement them. Did any of you actually look at the program? I understand people have a certain way of doing things, (this should go here, that should go there, I don't need that at all, etc.) but this program allows for that... I have said in numerous posts in this specific thread that I am not trying to "make anyone use it" (and by the response thus far, I doubt they will.) But Please... I was only trying to help my fellow community members with some information I came across. If you will, just take a gander at the previous posts. The only "positive" post was by LadySilverMage (thank you) and she did some research as well, and can't use it anyway. I ask you to please look at some of the links I have posted about the product before "bashing" the product or me. (And that's what it feels like.) If you have read on the program, and then posted, please forgive my assumption that you haven't. And again, I will reiterate, I am not asking anyone to use this that isn't wanting too, I am not wanting to take away anyone's "freedom" by taking away choice... I was impressed that the little guy (me) could use the same program that DAZ (*) uses (making it more of a professional looking product, IMO) without the UPFRONT cost, (I want to pay for the full version when I have the $$ to do so.) I was attempting to share, what I considered, good news to my fellow members here at Rsity. All of this really makes me question if I should have even bothered at all - Lee * Daz also has no issue with others using the same installer as long as you arent repackaging Daz products for distribution. I have done my homework there as well.

It's fine for you to bring it up. I'm just expressing my opinion that I would rather have zips, and I think if you did a poll most other users here would also.

As a Mac user, I echo the concerns made above. We can easily open zips, and have control over how much of what goes where. I do not like any software (I have 5 computers, both PCs and Macs) putting things where IT feels they should go. And, as has been noted in other threads and newsgroups, spyware and other trojans are easily slipped inside self-extracting fully-automated installers, including this one. An attractive, professional-looking package is a nice idea, and I'm glad that you investigated it, but it should be something which doesn't create more hassles than it solves. To my mind, what would be more professional would be proper, informative "readmes" as TEXT files. (I can't open DOCs on my Mac and carrying them over to this PC to read is a nuisance.) Carolly

Thanks for the heads up Lee. It would definetely make life easier on the newbies.

Personally, I prefer zips that save the the folder info (like those that start at the runtime folder). I don't mind if they stick the stuff in some area that goes against my own scheme, at least I can find it (where as with installers, you just have to hit search to locate the stuff if it isn't completely obvious) With a carefully crafted zip file, you can extract it and use it immediately (for newbies, or those of us who wish to play a little before working) and easily rearrange things as you please. It might not seem as professional, but sometimes being "homegrown" is better. I prefer a plain wrapper to an expensive shiny cover (as long as the product inside is of equal value) just my thoughts, eric

Attached Link: http://www.deploymaster.com/

If you want to use an installer thats not too expensive and very versatile look at Deploymaster. It gives the user the option to install files automatically or manually in a directory they want. A single user license sells at $ 99,-. Just my 0.02

One other issue about this: Whilst cleaning various directories in my Library, I couldn't help notice that DAZ isn't always consistent in a new folder name's spelling, resulting in multiple directories. "Hair Hats" for a Santa beard and nothing else? (Not to mention the DAZ/Zygote character folders, if you bought Vicky before DAZ split off...)