Alpha and I were intrigued by Rork's post the other day regarding the formation of an image critique forum or gallery. We began to wonder how many of our users would be interested in giving and getting formal critiques on our more "serious" artwork, if it could be done in an objective, controlled way? By this we mean longer and more "thought out" critiques than we ordinarily take the time to give in the gallery or even in the forum? While I'm thinking about it, how many of us our interested in learning about how to do serious critiquing?

I definitely would be interested. This was the type of response I was trying to get with the subject of my prevous post. As far as learning to critique, I would be a go in this as well.

Micheleh already suggested a "Critique Forum," and I already thought that with the 31 art galleries, 22 software forums, and 11 Topic forums geared towards the presentation of art (like the Photography forum), one of those places has to be the perfect spot to have your image critiqued. Truth be told, no one ever does this, but if anyone ever asks for serious critiques, they will get them, and I try and give them as often as I can anyways. Still, as Micheleh and Audre found out, a good lot of people seem interested in this. Strangely though, a lot of people seemed interested in a printing forum, an Imagine forum, an Amorphium forum, a Dragon Con forum, a Canoma forum, a Render Wars forum, and several other forums that died within weeks of their openings. Call me cynical, but I think that it both won't work out very well, and that there isn't any need for one whatsoever. As for the galleries, some people put some serious thought into their comments, and half the time its interpreted as an insult (been there, done that). Once again, call my cynical... As for a "controlled" way, that wording REALLY doesn't appeal to me. Micheleh used those words, and at the time she had the habit of hitting those LOCK, BAN, DELETE POST, and RITUALISTICALLY BURN THE MEMBER buttons the mods have access too. Fortunately, she seems to have stopped posting altogether and lost interest at the 4 or 5 forums she moderates, so I thought the critique forum idea was put on the back burner. Seriously though, instead of putting all the time and effort into running a new forum well (which you guys do, which is a rarity here on Rosity) enough to be passable, I figure put the effort into flushing this forum with more content. I've said it in public and private in the past, and I'll say it again, I'm always willing to help out where I can, write editorials, tutorials (got two of'em in there, waaa zaa!), etc. If you want critiques, and aren't just posting new stuff that ya had some fun with (most of the time thats what I do), say so, and if I see it, you'll get a serious personalized critique from me. Put it in a critique forum though, and I'll likely skip over it for all the Poser-heads out there who don't know what a darkroom or duotones are to unintelligently bash your lighting, posing, and moment capturing skills when they should go deeper than the surface and look at the phucking art that's pulsating in fron of their face, waiting for them to actually SEE it, instead of pointing out all the technical "glitches" they can find in one sitting (as most computer monkies are capable of quite aptly i might add) unintentionally showing they haven't a flipping clue what the words art, soul, meaning, heart, and love actually mean. That was what I could call a "serious critique of the critique forum." Hope I didn't step on any toes, I was just staring into my crystal ball was all... ry

In theory, the idea of a critique 'area' (either forum or gallery) is excellent. Unfortunately in reality I don't think it would be utilised by many more people than this forum itself, where we get excellent feedback to our pics - albeit when we post a pic that we think is half-decent and everyone raves how great it is it can be a touch infuriating.... and we've all had it happen!!! Trouble is, education is the key - in the gallery people comment, but they're either totally fawning up to girls because they post pics of themselves, or commenting on how great that lighting is on the pictures of girls/breasts taken by other people. Apart from that it's mainly us (the forum regulars) commenting on peoples pics or people (rightly or wrongly) flaming a bad pic. I don't think a seperate forum or gallery would change this at all, and it would just be an extension of the forum ... but I would like to be proved wrong. (",)

my bad.

Attached Link: http://www.rrives.com

I am a newbie to this forum. But I would love to see a place to post photos for crits. I think that is the only way to better your self. (or a least give yourself a measuring stick) I see most of the fourms here as a place to post images to have people pat you on the back. Which is fine, everyone likes a pat on the back. But if I want a more critcal look then being able to post it seperatly will let everyone know I am not looking for a pat but a spanking(sort of speaking) :) Having a place to share and a place to learn will help people viewing know exactly what the poster wants. Enjoying the forum. Thanks Randy R

I would like to learn how to critique appropriately, because then I might be able to look at my own work in a different way and improve on it. I am aware it is difficult to be objective here sometimes however... I also would like some solid rationale for my comments when looking at other people's work (rather than going on my instinct etc) So I can feel I'm not giving some sort of aberrant opinion! ;-)>

Hmmm....wondering how it would work.....when I ask for a critique here in the forum I always get helpful answers, and sometimes even when I don't ask I get thoughtful opinions on what could be improved. :~) Personally I appreciate the feedback, although I'm not sure if I would actually utilize a separate "place" within the forum.

I vote for the idea. can't know if it'll work till it's tried. If it doesn't work, fine, dissolve it later but I think it's a good one to at least try.

I really like the idea, both a place to critique & learning about doing it better.

I "practiced" with Quinn's and with Michelle's thread below. It is not an easy task! Hard to give useful, helpful, information without sounding like stuffy know-it-all. And then, it is just how I would make it look, not what the original artist had in mind. A free interchange of ideas could be useful. We all have such different styles...

My initial problem with giving critque/feedback to just anything I come across, is that I might put someone's work down, while they might be proud of what they achieved & just want to share it for fun. Not that I feel some kind of need to tell others why their stuff isn't 'good enough' or something ;) but just that I'd love to look at stuff a bit better if people would want me/us to, so I don't take away someone's fun for the sake of the need to act interesting about someone's work, if you get the idea. Cause I assume we're all doing this in the first place, cause it's a fun way to waste our free time, aren't we ? Anyway, there must be some way (haven't been able to figure it out yet, though) to have some of our things be seriously reviewed by anyone who wants it. And, as a reply to PC: no, I didn't start this to get feedback from people who are good enough to give a good critique (whatever that may be), but cause I value all your opinions like the way you give them know. No matter who you are, or what you do in photography.....just to clear that up ;) I mean Ansel Adams wasn't so good cause he followed the right courses, but cause he did what he thought was good/fun/interesting. Hey guys, how about a sort of 'review of the week'...a bit like POTW, like a forum or a gallery or whatever, that opens up once a week, where you can only post one photo (a week), and than others have the chance to look at our work during the whole week & give feedback. You don't have to check it out everyday for new work, and if you could have all people give a rating with their feedback, we can have another way to get a POTW elected perhaps. (or in stead of ratings, have a top20, or rank by number of feedback...whatever). Well, just another rough idea...

Actually I think I like this idea better Rork....like PC and Misha I think critiquing can be just as hard as being the critiquee. If this could be a learning experience for both parties then I think I might actually enjoy it. I guess alot of my reluctance comes to the fact that at other sites such as photo.net for example you get the bozos who have nothing contributed to the site, pop in, give your image a bad rating or a nasty comment and then run. That annoys me. If it's coming from someone whos work I admire and respect it means something to me. I've had it happen to me and it sucks. I thought it might be interesting to post an image that just doesn't work for whatever reason, and let people tear it apart. In other words something you would probably trash anyway, and then let people figure out why. It might be a good learning tool. We could discuss the rules of compostition, lighting, etc. and why it failed with a particular image. And of course since the person who put up the image knows there is a problem with it their feelings would not be hurt. Just another idea to toss about.

Rork & Michelle, both good ideas I think. From my time here so far I think the experiences you talk about Michelle are quite unlikely in the forum. I agree with Rork that it isn't always easy to know if people want a serious critique & sometimes I guess we just go off on a tangent & the original image gets forgotten once we all stop laughing!!

personally i think we could do away with all the "aint it lovely" just for the sake of it on this forum anyway. I mean we are all grown up enough here to see when someone is more experienced in this sort of thing and take some pointers without taking offence. i really dont see the need to have yet another separate place to disscuss work when i thought that was the idea of this forum in the first place.Ok it can get a little cluttered sometimes when we put threads on for a bit of fun but thats just the great part of this place.such a diversiy of ideas opinions and entertainment without having to hop all over the site till you get lost!! (which i invariably do :) )

I suppose one of the things a structured critique forum would offer would be that people would only post there expecting both good and constructive comments - at times in the forum, when someone HAS worked long and hard on a picture and we all know it, I'm sure all of us have found it difficult to comment negatively, sometimes at least. I know it has been commented previously that too much back-patting goes on here, whether justified or not. At least there, we would know to expect comments in both directions.... (",)

You mean we can't have fun?? 8-( It is always good to do a little back-patting, and it seems to me that this Forum even manages to do that with a high degree of sincerity. I hope it is not discouraging people from serious participation though. That would not be a good thing.

A long time ago (in Jr.High photo club), we'd spend time bringing in a contact sheet of one or two rolls (24 to 72 pictures), generally taken while exploring some "Challenge." Folks would pass them around and mark up with a grease pencil. There was a lot of, "Hey, this would really be neat if you'd just do this." [There was also a lot of giggles, but everyone had their fair shot at it.] Some of our most useful critiques here have been when someone posts an early image with a question about the monthly Challenge. This is usually fairly focused and helpful, and since it is a WIP folks usually don't get upset. It also has seemed useful here, when someone posts a WIP, others take it and show their point of view in Photoshop. [This can be VERY dangerous if not handled extremely delicately...] No one wants it to become photo.net. Personally I absorb a lot from this group just by hanging around and interacting. [I work in a job which is extremely confrontational, with everyone always pushing their better idea. If the Forum gets this way, have fun, bye...] But I do very much appreciate the critiques and helpful suggestions folks here have sent to me, and I think one thing that motivates all of us is mastering the art. This mastery can only come through interaction and criticism. [Consider Van Gogh and Gaugaun when they shared the house together, fought constantly, but both their work improved. At least until Vincent shot himself...]

I think weirdstop makes some good points. I don't think it's
necessary to have a seperate area or whatever for serious
critique. All we need to do is make it known what we want
in the way of comments ("This is just a fun shot" or "I'd
like serious critique/pointers on this image") in the forum
at least. Perhaps to catch people's eye we could adopt a
simply abbreviation in the subject line of our posts, such
as "SQR" for serious critique requested.

Personally, I'd never be offended by anyone here who offered
tips for improvement on my photos. After all improvement is
a goal of mine, and a forum like this is invaluable as a
learning tool.

Ummm.... Of course I meant "SCR", not "SQR"... :-)

Not "SPQR" ? Silly Picky Quips Requested. No, guess that was used already. [SENATUS POPULUSQUE ROMANUS]