can any mod or admin explain why when I logged in today I was told that I have been banned? I had to sign up to a new account to post this message.

you know exactly why you were banned, bebop. and you didnt log in to post this message, you logged in to post your lame 'LOL' message in the other thread. LOL

When a member is banned, this includes any and all clones they make. We ban people for breaking the rules, We don't realy care what name they use.

Then , Is Liftan banned till Wednedsy, and if yes, why do you keep his gallery filled up with his work. He has to be defiitely out. After having said that all his clones are banned, and found YOUR reasons for that,I know what bthe real ones, but you names them , I don 't understand why you "hold" his artworks, if he is banned definitely ? _In thi case , he could see you holding his pix, and he or his lawyers and potential supporters could prosecute and sue the Mods and the other "blamers" for "alibi" and the reason would trying to excluse someone for his personal opinions or emotions in a "would be" free Site I think he many tried to explain you he's a peaceful guy, he just woried about justice, and I think he thanked you_I called him. He had behaved, it seems, because if it's a real definitive ban, then you have no right to keep any of his picture son your site. Should be careful, there are laws about this too, and it's above yout TOS here , guys. _Let's do the whole thing, or at least be hones t enough to let him know that his ban is parmanent. He says he never recieved that his ban was definitive by mail. He says he just sorry because you never sent a mail sayiong that ot the opposite. I think you guys should thin of this stupid case, an dbe a little more mature ans see the thing si npespective: You do it or you don't but not sitting between tow chairs. Alf was alwasy grateful to Renderosity, he maybe doesn't give to much importance enough and didn't always understand all what you could say. That's no more difficult than that. Just be neat about the decision, and up to you to do correctly the things. You can say: He's banned definitely and keep his pictures. This guy never received any mauil saying he was banned excepted for one week. I know he gave clone nicks. What do you think: Alf told me he doesn't want to become famous because of this reasons. In any sense.

hehe.. is this liftan? i think im starting to recognise his posts as well, even though i have no idea (nor do i care) why he was banned or what the whole deal is surrounding him. waits for valandar to chime in :)

Well "Liftan" , your out of here.... This is a clone.....

BH: It's the complete mangling of English, use of underscores to emphasize what he thinks are "salient points", and his rampant Anti-Semetism that make him so easily recognizable.

LOL! Liftan, you're about as inconspicuous as Darth Vader on a dairy farm.

Thanks for banning the latest Alf clone. But I was perplexed when I went to liftan's member area last week and saw those insane hook-nosed, devil-eared caricatures of various Jews or other leaders. This is exactly the same style of caricature that was used against the Jews by the Nazis in the 30s and 40s, but it said at the bottom "We are proud to host the works of this artist" or something similar. It's like saying you're proud to host a revival of Nazi hate crimes. I'm not Jewish, but I can't understand banning nude fairies and allowing Nazi propaganda. I would say, go ahead and ban nude fairies, since there's already a place for that (PoserPros or Renderotica), but be fair and ban Nazi propaganda as well, since the Nazis have harmed alot more people than any pedophile stuff ever did.

Working on it.

Working on it. I fear the worst.

Well, then let's be REALLY fair and ban AMERICAN propaganda, too. Let's chuck all those patriotic images from the memorial gallery.

When a member is banned, there is no need for their gallery to stay. What I am "working on" is removing all his images form his gallery because he has been banned.

Well, seems to me that since this IS an American owned, operated and hosted site that it should be entitled to use Americanisms :) from a Non American

Patriotism is to love your own country Nazism or Antisemitism is to hate somebody else. Two different concepts to me..

I understand and concur with that Creations, my reference was more to the memorial gallery comment. Sorry I wasn't clearer. I do believe the US has a law against "hate material"? Not sure, but if so that would also most surely fall within the guidance of "Americanisms".

Mine was to the meomoral gallery comment too Firefly :-))

"Patriotism is to love your own country Nazism or Antisemitism is to hate somebody else." There was a time when Nazism WAS patriotism, at least in Germany. "Propaganda" is the expression of other guy's patriotism. There are some people who consider crashing planes into the World Trade Center as patriotism. As my old pal Philo says, the difference between Heaven and Hell is which end of the pitchfork you're on. If the Nazis had won WW2, Hitler would be remembered as a conquering hero who defeated the evil puppets of democracy. History is written by the winners. Sure, I'll agree with the above post which states, "the Nazis have harmed alot more people than any pedophile stuff ever did", but then so has America, with its' genocidal policies regarding the Indians who were there before them, and for that matter the Catholic Church, with it's own genocidal policies regarding Jews, pagans, and other assorted "sinners". I'm not defending Liftan here...in fact, if I told you what I really think of him, I'd probably be banned for personal attacks...HEINOUS personal attacks. Given the opportunity, I'd laugh as he boiled in his own diarrhea. But to suggest banning ANY political expression in art, however unpopular, is an affront to the creative process itself. There is a tendency among many members here who see one thing censored, and then, instead of saying, "That shouldn't be censored", say instead, "Well, if you censor THAT, you should censor THIS to be fair". The answer to censorship isn't MORE censorship. This is supposed to be a community for artists. And any artist who demands more stringent restrictions on what can be posted here is doing more ill to this community that a hundred pictures of "propaganda".

I Just ment that showing proudly your own flag (art, books of whatever you like) is something different than burning somebody elses. Talking about sensorship: Why is a naked fairy being sensored? Why is an image of two homosexuals in the shower being banned? Why is hatred allowed but love is not? Why can we not ban antisemitic art (and believe me hateful art IS a weapon - look at the same Nazis) because than all of the sudden we sensor the freedom of the artist? Can you not express your political views without hate? "There are some people who consider crashing planes into the World Trade Center as patriotism" Patriotism for which country exactly?

Patriotism doesn't have to be to a country, it can be to a "cause", as what happened to my own great-great-grandfather in 1861 right here in Tennessee, who was patriotic to what is referred to now as the "Great Lost Cause", and lost his life because of it. Someone once said that "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel", as can be clearly observed by some who use any issue, whether it be the tragedy of Sept. 11, or child nudity, to advance their own political agenda when they could care less what feelings of others they trample in order to do so, or anything about the REAL issues they are "using". In another case of patriotism to a lost cause, in Tennessee just recently the posting of the judeo/Christian "10 Commandments" in government public courthouses went to a full blown court trial at a cost to the taxpayers of thousands and thousands of dollars, even after the state Attorney General told them that they were clearly breaking constitutional law and should back down. Political posturing at the expense of others is nothing new; "patriots" do it all the time... it is rampant here in this state at least. Hey, we're the state who gave you the Scopes Monkey Trials AND Renderosity! We is on a roll!!!

I just simple ment the patriotism of people who release their grief about the loss of innocent life, without attacking anybody else (no Islam bashing, no antisemitism etc). What is wrong with that? It should not be compared to Nazism. Nothing should be compared with Nazism as there was only one Nazism. Well my humble opinion. It is just weird to me that love between people, the human body etc..are things considered taboo, while hatred and violence are allowed. Why can we not just agree on one simple golden rule: no pornography or hatred at Rosity(in fora and in galleries.

Make love not war? I agree wholeheartedly... however love is considered pornographic and war is not. But we are generalizing and it has nothing to do with Renderosity, which is merely mirroring the greater society of which it is a product. I have a rather large magnetic American flag on my truck tailgate, and I'm very patriotic in the sense that this is my HOME, and I love my home. Also saddened by the fact that so many want to use patriotism as a "feel good" weapon against anything they do not like in the world, whether it's jews or muslims or pagans or blacks, whites, natives, etc.... and so by jumping on the patriotism badwagon to garner support for their nefarious causes, or even to sell their commercial products. "Love It Or Leave It" is a self defeating philosophy. Rather it should be "Preserve It Or Lose It".

[[It is just weird to me that love between people, the human body etc..are things considered taboo, while hatred and violence are allowed.]] Yep, that's one of the strangest things about American society, the whole mindset that love/affection/sex is somehow vile, disgusting, dirty and shameful and NEVER to be discussed, preferably NEVER to be shown (and IF shown, always for the sleaze 'titillation' - NEVER any of the more wholesome side); but selfishness and anger - even rage, and violence are perpetually on display and kids are taught - by constant example both in real life and in everything on tv & in movies - that rage and violence are perfectly acceptable responses when ANYTHING does not go exactly their way. *** Wanna kiss the person next to you? How dare you, you FOUL pervert! Wanna 'blow away' the turkey who just cut you off in traffic. Go For It! Don't just kill him, take out his whole damn irritating family too. It's the American Way. *** And then they shake their heads and wonder, and commission study after study, to try to find out WHY kids are violent. Hell, they are SYSTEMATICALLY TAUGHT to respond with anger and violence to EVERYTHING.

God Bless Us, Everyone.

"Wanna 'blow away' the turkey who just cut you off in traffic. Go For It! Don't just kill him, take out his whole damn irritating family too. It's the American Way."

No it's not the "American Way", it's the moronic way. You'll find the same amount of violence where ever you go.

I am in England. I don't know much about this Bebop case, but I may as well report a case when I saved someone from being banned unjustifiably. It was many years ago in an email group called Virus-L about how to warn about and detect and stop computer viruses. A man called James Huang in Taiwan wanted information about viruses for VAX computers, and his message included this sentence:- I want to spread this. and the group's manager said he was going to ban "this character" for wanting to spread virus. I answered urgently pointing out that a man with a Chinese-type name in a Chinese-speaking area was likely not perfect at English and that that sentence could equally mean "I want to spread information about how to detect and combat VAX computer viruses"; he was guilty only of "unclear or ambiguous use of a pronoun".

heh i suggest that if you think bebop may have been banned by accident, or that his banning was unjustified, that you familiarize yourself with the reasons for his bannings and his subsequent behavior with clone accounts. if there was ever a posterboy for banning, its bebop. im sure a lot of people here know the facts and would be happy to share them with you. i would too, but its 2am and im hammered and i need to sleep. IM me if you want to know the reasons and ill sum it up tomorrow when im over my hangover. cheers, -gabriel

I know that the Bebop ban was justified; I was merely reporting the James Huang case for information.

So does this mean that political art is NOT OK? I've been thinking on some works about the current situation in occupied Palistine; but given what this person was banned for I suspect my feelings in that issue would get me banned as well. Is political art banned? Or only that which is not pro-Isreali?

Bebop wasn't banned for political art, but Liftan was banned for neo-Nazi rants, not his crude anti-Israeli caricatures. If you want to waste your time repeating Liftan's (and Hitler's) mistakes, it's up to the moderators to decide when you go over the line into the area of hate-speech.

One thing you could do, if you have a serious concern about one of your own images, is ask the mods to take a look at it. It would be nice if folks didn't overwhelm us with such requests, mind you, but we really do want to work with you to make this the kind of community that reflects both Renderosity's mission and members' wants and needs. As for Liftan, my recollection is that he was banned for trolling the forums. And he will continue to be each and every time he reappears.

Liftan's been making trouble for quite a while, and it's not just about his politics. It's not like he just popped up and pissed someone off, you know? He's been working at it for a while and finally got what he's deserved, so don't assume that someone gets banned just for posting a political statement, no matter how wacked that statement may be. Liftan got away with a lot in the past and finally just pushed his luck too far too many times.

-but selfishness and anger - even rage, and violence are perpetually on display and kids are taught - by constant example both in real life and in everything on tv & in movies - that rage and violence are perfectly acceptable responses when ANYTHING does not go exactly their way.- It seems to me that, by viewing your gallery, you are a Babalon 5 fan. Now, how is this show 'non-violent'? It is also clear that you are not beyond creating violent images to express your artistic abilities. Before you go running with the, now text book 'Violent U.S. Society' blather, maybe you should check to see if your shoes are tied. You support the same violent programing by viewing it and sharing it with your friends and that makes you just as responsible as we Americans. What movies have you seen lately? What games do you play? Go slam another nation. hey, Americans, dont be fooled by these people, They boast about how they are so great and how America is so bad yet they have the same problems as we do. They watch the same movies we do and criminals outside of the U.S. also kill innocent people as well. They say that the U.S. is the capital of porn. Yeh right. Some of the filthiest porn comes out of Germany and Denmark. Europe has Hate groups that rival the KKK and the Black Panthers. My clerk was chased down and beaten by british teens just two months ago as his wife was forced to watch. They beat her when they were done with him. And what did Cam and Cindy do to deserve such a beating? They asked for directions. China kills and kills and kills its people to the point of insanity but damn those Americans and their TV violence. They look at Bethlehem and then shout 'Damn those Americans'. At least I can say what I feel without getting imprisoned for 'Crimes against the people' or just outright excecuted in the street. Oh and, how is Ireland doing lately? Did they ever stop that 'Red Hand' bunch. You all know them. They were the ones throwing Bombs at school children. When it comes to social programing of the young or any one else for that matter we are all guilty, and those who disagree must live inside a complete vacuum. Just remember that violence is the same everywhere and no nation has the right to judge another. Don't get me wrong. I do not blame other nations for thier faults I am just showing that the same problems exist everywhere and don't think that I am against non U.S. People but only those that critisise us and never once point out thier flaws. When they are perfect then they can hammer away. Untill then they should look up the word 'Hypocrite' in thier dictionary.

Attached Link: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=Propaganda

Attached Link: http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=Idealist

The problem is that you attempted to counter other peoples arguments by posting a personal definition of a word. SO I merely posted the actual definition. If you disagree with someone's argument post the weakpoints as you see them. Which you seem to have done in the post above. Don't try to get at them with semantics. I may agree with many of you individual points in the above post; but I don't like semantics wars and the post trying to redefine Propaganda essentially caused me to tune out everything else you'd said before it. I'm now faced with forcing myself to ignore that post and see what you said in other posts to determine if I agree or disagree with you or even to find out just what position you hold.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=185240&Start=1&Artist=arcady&ByArtist=Yes

I'd add a legitimate comment here, but that would mean reading everything, which I have no patience for

Yeh, youre right. Silly topic and takes up too much room.