I find it Rather funny that in other "Hi end" end CG forums
Poser 4 is quicky dismissed as a worthless peice of crap By big shots who apparently cannot even recognize poser figures in action when they see it.
I recenlty posted links my poser movie trailer in two different "High End" Cinema 4D forums
and NOT revealed poser as my character program,
and here are some quotes from some individuasl who havein the past dismissed poser as an "amatures play toy"

*"i like the trooper! it looks eeevil hehehe.
try to get colors that fit the message and style
of the world the story plays in. the blue spaceships are
too blue. make it dirty.
the hair of the woman in the blizzard is great. how did you make it?
your own film-roject. great!
i'l advertise this thread in the german c4d-forum.de"

---

"Not bad. I would suggest some work on your lighting and and texturing.
try and use less vibrant colours and mute your colour pallette.
Well done.

Garath Qually"

"Could you please provide more info as to how your trailer was done.
Did you use any plugins? How was the characters animated?
How did you do the lip synch stuff etc...??
I think that this would really help any budding animators including myself as
to what techniques were used and whether a plugin or two are worth the download."*

Peter Krska.

That is funny.. good show to you! -Lee

Heh, I'd give them a good slap and truthfully answer thier questions. This might actually open thier eyes to the power of poser itself for character animations.

Ah, string 'em along for a while - the ol' "lead away" - then smack them with it. Serves 'em right.

I love it! I've been over there too and seen some of the attitudes. The audience doesn't care what we use - as long as we use it well. BTW, thanks again for your help with some of my questions "over there."

Now, now, don't be so negativ. Sad did advertise your film in the german c4d-forum.de. And he thinks your work is interesting. :) Contrary to popular belief not everyone at a high end forum is a software snob. I think there are many people who read this forum and CGTalk. But most don't post with the same name in both. ;)

There is a lot of elitism (sp) and cliques on the net. I don't see it too much here, but it's even present in some poser forums (none of the ones here). I even removed my gallery at one site because seemingly I didn't fit into the realm of booby-chicks or cutesy fairies. But it can feel good to give these folks a rub when it comes to the quality of work that can be accomplished with poser. I find that nearly anything can be done (at least in stills) with post-processing anyway. For example, this image was done primarily with Poser...

Yeah, I'm so glad we don't have problems with booby-chicks or cutesy fairies here.

On the other hand, the cutesy chicks and booby-fairies...

"NO, I'M NOT GOING THERE!" he screamed as he ripped his hands from the keyboard. "I must find my happy spot."

Chicky cutes and fairy boobs! Where? where? No but seriously - the thing is you see, Poser isn't exclusive enough - it's not expensive, see. C4D, Maya and Max and all that - that's big money and then you're so cool, so you can look down your nose at those lowly Poser jerks. This does NOT apply to all users of those apps of course - we have lots of them right here, real nice people. There is one thing about Poser though - the thing they cn always go on about when they find fault, namely the lack of a decent rendering engine in Poser 4. But I have a feeling Poser 5 is going to change all that. Hope so. Also, the prices of the high end apps are dropping at stellar speed, so soon they won't be so exclusive. Also, I know lots of people who work with HTML and the like who poo-poo anyne who uses even a decent app like Dreamweaver - that's cheating, you're supposed to code by hand, see. Elitism by definition is the exclusion of the vast majority by putting up a set of arbitrary rules by which to judge. Applies equally well to art, music, cars, programming, boating, clothes, houses, sports..... you name it. The label on the baseball cap you wear - I MEAN, that's important! Geez, you haven't got a clue! Regardless of what I know, think, am good at, etc.... I'm about as un-elitist as they come. Since I think it's so goddamn stupid. :] FishNose

Wolf - in 1913, a french general was asked if he thought aeroplanes and flying would ever be useful to the military - for reconnaisance and such. Being an officer of the cavalry (always proud of their elite role as recce and shock troops), he answered : "Tout ca, c'est du sport" (All that, it's just for sport!). Noone remembers his name these days. Another cavalryman called Richthofen traded his horse for a plane right off - and soon became the Red Baron.

Well, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a high end snob that feels poser is worthless. That's not their argument. They don't respect poser artists because they feel the program does everything for you. So if you told them you did your movie with poser, they'd be less impressed with it because you didn't model and bone the characters yourself.

Thats great!!! :-)

"Well, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a high end snob that feels poser is worthless.<"

Hi, step over to the renderosity lightwave forum and ask for the best way to get vicky into lightwave with all her textures intact and watch how you are treated :-).

"they'd be less impressed with it because you didn't model and bone the characters yourself."<

hmm what a silly and vacuous argument that is.
its a good thing the veiwing.paying public doesent give a rats ass about who built what 3Dcharacter .
or George Lucas would be in ALOT of trouble :-)

"aint what you play - its the way that you play it"

Hehe. Hiram, I don't have a problem with ANY type of content. I know how to "turn the channel" or use the back button. I just think its pathetic when that's the only thing that viewers comment on. I don't see what is so bad about poser's rendering ability. Surely it can't be regarded as fantastic but I wouldn't put it into the realm of pathetic either. Maybe it's because its not an all-in-one application. So what, it seems that many people postwork hair and clothes anyway... Damn that Poser program, you know it's a piece of crap when it won't even butter my toast!

Well...talk about snobby. i live in a florida beach town. there are many artists, here. ya know, the kind who paint pictures and hang em in galleries...or get 50k to paint a small mural in a reknowned building. well, ever myself, and, never quite humble....when i'd meet one, i'd show 'em my poser stuff. i now give poser lessons to the "real artists" at 75 bucks an hours. and, let me tell ya...giggle....it's not easy for them to learn, either. i guess the chi-chi depends on the pootee. only one of the sculptors treats me like crap. go figger. hey, now...i've earned my beer money, yet another day, and poser helped ;*)

The anti-Poser people seem to be the same crowd that turns up there nose at every film that comes out and think that only people who agree with them are educated. The reality is that most Poser users pay for there software, I know for a fact that lots of the Lightwave/Maya crowd use bootlegged/cracked programs and then sneer at those of us who pay our way. Cinema 4D is not a snobby program however, at the student prices one can get it for about $200, speaking of which I have a brand new copy of Final Cut pro 2 (Upgradable) in the box, cellophane and all, for sale, cheap. I use a PC.

I work with 3D artists all the time. Most are OK. Some are just elitist snobs. My complaint about them is like 90% of all the fast done online comics and material is done in poser. Sure they may render better quality in Maya or Max or Lightwave but they don't ever get anything done. For every online CG comic done on a high end machine there's like 20 done with poser, maybe at 75% quality but still more. Some of the guys I've worked with have even loaded Vicky obj in max and used it as a nerb guide to build their own females. Kind of shows where they are at.

Some of the guys I've worked with have even loaded Vicky obj in max and used it as a nerb guide to build their own females. Well, even I KNEW that. It is alot easier to trace than to create proportions from scratch. I think the main issue with poser is its lousy render capabilities. i love playin' with the poserfolk...morphing, making them little stuffies....but, i do my best to at least be upscale enough to render in bryce...had max on my old machine..that got stolen. this one was a gift..old sad puter, and, just can't handle it.

"My complaint about them is like 90% of all the fast done online comics and material is done in poser. Sure they may render better quality in Maya or Max or Lightwave but they don't ever get anything done. "<

IM not one of these people who blindly defends to the death any software program,

but what grates on me is the fact that
alot of highend users in the other forums have trashed poser as having no redeeming value , or reason to exist in 3D at all
not just its poor scanline render engine.

Yet these same "experts"are praising my POSER animated characters rendered In Cinema4DXL. and dont even recognize the very poser figures they claimed are worthless!!.

and these guys almost NEVER have anything to show of their own except that one alien/gargoyle head model they made( Yawwn!!) and links to the website of thier favorite Maya/Lighwave /Max Hero.