Has anyone else noticed that the harshest criticism and lowest ratings on artwork here seem to come from members that have no work posted at all, or if they do, the work is sadly amateurish. Jealousy, maybe? I try to make sure my comments are helpful, constructive and encouraging. Isn't the reason we have this artists' community here in the first place to receive encouragement and mentoring from those with which we share a love for Digital Art (or Photography or whatever)? If you just tell me my art sucks, how am I supposed to improve it? On the subject of rating, I never give less than a 8. If I don't think the pic deserves at least an eight I JUST DON'T RATE IT AT ALL. Low ratings hurt feelings. Only mean people do that. I may leave a constructive comment to encourage the artist to keep trying, but that's all. Why insult someone you've never even met? I not saying people should be dishonest, just that we should think about how it would feel to be on the receiving end of our own comments and ratings. In the words of Thumper's mother, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all." (Steps down off soapbox) Whatchall think?

I agree. I think the whole 1-10 system is flawed by design, and unless I forget, I turn it off on my images. I've never seen anyone get a 3. It's either 1, 9, or 10. (and the 1s are few an far between.) I've also noticed that the negative folk tend to be the transients. They're not the regulars they don't show a lot of work. Maybe they're evaluating the site. I think it's the anonymity of it too. If it were a brick and mortar gallery, half of them wouldn't even have come in the first place. I don't know if it's jealousy, it may be shock. For example, when I graduated high school as one of best artists in the school, I went on to art school. Wow, that was culture shock. I went from the top of the ladder right down to the middle of the pack. Everyone there was the best or among the best in their high schools, and now they were all in the same place. It's much stiffer competition, and some people will thrive on it and work to be better, others will leave and go back to their happy place where they are the best again. I do however find that in the interest of not offending someone, I don't offer help. It's a judgement call I make. I evaluate the artist, and determine whether or not they are likely to receive criticism well. It's too bad, because I often wont help the people that need it most. But then, the people that listen to others' commentary are those who need the least help! It's a vicious cycle. Well, that's my ramble. In short, I agree with you. But criticism is difficult both to give and to receive, and in an online community that's open to all, it's inevitable that there will be people that can do neither very well.

I've noticed that some don't take even helpful critism well. I love it, how else am I gonna learn. I see newbies posting asking things like "how do I know I'm good enough to post", I tell them it doesn't matter how good you are just how willing you are to learn. Most that post say "good job" and that's about it...about as helpful as "this sucks". I don't post many comments, since usually I only see stuff posted in chat, then if I have something to say I say it there. I will say that every artist reserves the right to say that's enough, it's a final. You can only work on one thing for so long.

Great responses guys, but I think a sincere "good job" now and then can help us build confidence that we are accomplishing the goals we are setting for ourselves. I for one really enjoy the feedback. If I didn't want feedback, I would just leave my art on my hard drive. Up until I posted my stuff here, I was very discouraged and thinking I might be wasting my time. The only people who saw my art were family and friends, and the usual response there was "that's nice" which sounded a lot like "big whoop" to me (I'll bet this is almost universal among your friends and family, too). Thanks!

Well, there's always that feeling with friends and family. :-) But, concerning harsh criticism, there's a quote by a writer, which essentially says: "When you send your work out in public, you're on a windswept plain with your pants down." In other words, you're fair game for everybody, from those who want to be helpful, to those who just sneer at everything. I think that every artist - a painter, writer, whatever - has to cope with that. And if we want to learn and improve, we better develop those coping skills.

I guess I'm fortunate in that a number of my friends are good artists, and have been inspiring me ever since I've known them. When somebody you KNOW is a good artist tells you "hey, that pic is good" it's a lot better than the familial "yeah, that's nice" which so underwhelms most of us. My best friend is an outstanding artist - I've seen portraits in oils that she painted that damn near could pass for photos. When she looks at my stuff, she'll notice the good points, and she almost always has a pointer like "that boat hanging on the davits would look more real if there was some backscatter light reflected on it from the water below" - things which give me practical ideas on how to improve my technique. As for feedback here - well, for me it's usually almost nonexistent. My latest pic which has over 60 views here has 1 comment - par for the course around here. The same pic posted over at 3DC has about 25 views, with 14 comments - most of which are by artists whose work I already know and respect. It sure helps when somebody you know does very good work leaves some positive feedback on a post.

I agree with Allen9. My last pic here got over 100 views and zip comments but over on 3DC it got 55 views and 13 comments from artists whose work I respect. Good, bad or indifferent people don't seem to leave comments here even if you encourage them to do so. I learn a lot about my work just reading comments as everybody will see something different in an image and it encourages me to stretch my skills more. For myself, I don't comment/critique very often simply because I don't feel I'm qualified to do so as I've only been doing CG for about 6 mos. Also, if you post your work you can't expect everybody to love it and there are some very immature individuals who will leave rude comments because they can. The bottom line is do I like the image? If I do, then rude comments don't bother me. But I think the numerical rating system is worthless. I usually turn it off on my images and I don't rate images I look at. Just my opinion. ;) Cie

I think there's an overload of art here. Too many entries pouring in, not enough time to see them all or comment on them. I've seen individuals uploading 6 pics in a single day and they were mostly variations of a half-finished product. Some seem to use this site as a repository for all their experimental stuff, instead of selecting only their special images. We need to throttle it down a bit before they impose a limit on us. I'm surprised this site can even handle so many images, which are coming in at an increasingly higher rate.

Well here's my opinion. I felt that I should put it up here too.

If I think an image doesn't deserve a high rating then I do give comments if I feel that it might be appreciated by the artist. And these comments are usually full of ideas to imprve the image, but I just don't put a low rating next to it. But I think that low ratings could be used. But you shouldn't use them to take amateures in my opinion. If you think an image is absolutely tasteless (For instance things like 'nudity-for-the-sake-of-nudity') and you feel that it's hurting peoples feelings or that it just does not fit in this community, than a low rating can illustrate those feelings, but you should always put a comment next to it to make people know why you think the image is a shame for the community.

I rarely comment because I don't feel particularly qualified, but when I do comment, I try to single out something that I liked (or think could be improved upon without sounding like all I'm saying is "I would have designed it this way, silly mortal."). When someone solicits advice, I'll offer it if someone hasn't beat me to the punch. Usually, though, I'M the guy wondering "how'd they do that?"

What do you all mean by "I'm not qualified enough to comment"? Damn, you ARE qualified. Everyone of you. And why? Because you have a look at the image and you like or dislike it. Or the technique, the lighnint, the modelling, the mood or whatever. You have an OPINION. And that's what you qualify to comment. I'm often disapointed that my works receive many views here and so many leave in silence. "Good woork" is ok for me, and for many others too. And why is a simple "good work" ok like every other comment? Because you get feedback. And that's all we want here - every single of us. This has nothing to do with being qualified. You are qualified by looking at the works others created. Take care, Jimi

In regard to unfinished works, I would say that there is some merit to the wip idea. Not everyone can post 10-20 images a day and some of us need help with stuff we are working on at the moment. Rendrosity encorages this, hence the wip gallery and even the product showcase forum.

Wow. Great discussion, guys. I'm honored to have started it. :^)

I think this is art, not kung-fu or something equally preposterous. We should enhance each other's creativity, it shouldn't be demeaning. The contests are meant to do just this, even ones with prizes like the Mojoworld one. The comments themselves, well I'm personally not too ruthless, but if I see some things that could be nicer I'll defenitely mention it. I excpect nothing less from you guys, I live for the criticism. And if you can't take criticism, hell, just don't post. An open mind is the key, in art and all things. As for criticizing people who don't post a lot, I don't post a lot. Maybe one a week. Because I'm a total perfectionist, and have poor project management to say the least, but I love viewing other's works, especially like ocddoug, their works help me set higher standards for my own. Thanks to them...

tjohn re original post: I try not to think - interferes with my negatitivity. Seriouslt though - criticing is a valid way to learn.not as valid as actually doing, but valid none the less. I try to be honest in my comments if they are negative they are to help the artist, not flame him. a rule of thumb - if you are easily offended, don't ask. Not everyone is going to like your work nomatter how good you are. Thank god this is not an elitist forum and open to everyone. Slowly I'm learning how to do things from these forums, and remember that's why we're here; to learn to do graphic arts, appreciate the various forms of art and to some degree - socialize. "...mighnotgiveyoutheanswerthatyouwantmeto..." - bikermouse wanders off humming a strange old song . . .

To Shadowdragonlord: I didn't mean to sound like I was ranking out people just because they don't post 3 pics a day, just those who flame other artist's work. I enjoyed surfing here as a member for a WHOLE YEAR before my first post (I'm shy. And lazy. :^) Actually it took me that long before I felt like I was producing work that was good enough to post. Seeing the high quality that is the standard here raised the bar for me. And that's a good thing.) To Bikermouse: As far as negative comments go, "I don't like this because..." and "This bites!" are very different,and yet both are negative. Thanks for the quote from "Oh Well" by Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac. Have you heard their new "Live at the BBC" CD? I like it.

heck, I still feel like the "art" I post isn't good enough for here...maybe that's why it's taking me a month to really work on my latest Bryce scene....I want it to be the calibre of art that I see in the galleries, not something that my little sister could pump ou in an hour. A lot of times, if I do post a comment, it's usually to those who have inspired me...If I seen in the thumbnail that it was an improper or not for me pic, I don't look at it....although, there have been times where you just shake your head and wonder what some people were thinking...then remember "to each his own"... I don't rank because, well, right now, I see a lot of art as way better than mine. It would be redundant for me to give all 9's and 10's, so until I'm more comfortable being a critic that way, then, maybe I'll start ranking. Shadow

Shadow: Yeah I feel the same way, but I'm getting a little braver about it. I gotta ask myself does this have something to offer? If I can answer yes to that I can talk myself into posting on forum sometimes, not yet on gallery however. - Hey even The Mona Lisa ain't perfect.(or were they talking about her moral character?)

Yikes! I didn't mean to set derjimi off! What I meant by "not qualified to comment" was that I'm not sure I have much advice to offer beyond "good work" or "the DOF doesn't look quite right" --but if questioned, I couldn't really tell them what I would DO. There's an active example in this forum: emboldened by this thread, I commented on Big Hoovie's monthly challenge entry, suggesting that he should fiddle a bit with the DOF. He asked me how. I DON'T KNOW! But, in general, derjimi's right. When I post, I sure like to get comments --so why is it so hard for me to leave some? Most of us probably should make a conscious effort to offer some form of constructive feedback when we browse through the galleries. That's my June resolution.

There are sad people who take a perverse delete in giving pictures very low ratings, and the better the picture, the more likely they are to rate it 1 or 2. They are usually referred to as trolls. It's like vandalism, really. On another site it is known for fact that some of these trolls sign up for multiple user IDs so that they can leave multiple low ratings on good pictures.