... and possible you share my opinion that i could do with a lot less functions within poser if there was a way to avoid the legal traps there. Being a vary old guy, i remember how we dealt with problems like that when they arouse in Unix-world (Yes i'm THAT old!) Every now and then a nice utility crept up but was too expensive or legaly barbwired to use for the community ... so we took the idea and created a free (mostly GNU) licenced software that everyone could use. Yes it mostly lacked the bells and whistles ... but it nearly always did the job. If you are suspicios that a concept like that could work ... have a look at sourceforge (which is just one of a grat number of repositories) to get the idea how many people are willing and able to provide quality software for no cost at all. I think POSER has bin alone for too long ... a healthy competition is always to the benefit of the users. What do you think? Wouldn'zt it be nice to have a alternative to fall back to when legal vrap gets us down to much? I would feel great if artistic work would not be hindered or made impossible be things so meaningless as license argreements and stuff. those legal traps never caught a realy culprit but aways hinder the creative. Let me in on your thought. TNX Deibuzo

or everyone who is complaining could just make their own millenium figures instead and give them away. You could morph those all to bloody hell if you want.

I can help with the software. About creating own models, it will be usefull the create some few standarts (GNU) that everybody that creates a new model will follow: 1) All models uses the same texture map 2) All models have similar body dimensions. The meshes can be completely different but the can use the same texture map and the clothes made for one fits into another one

Don't get Poser from Curious Labs confused with suppliers of models, in this case DAZ. Poser isn't the only application that does character posing/animation, just the only one in this price, with this range of features. The copyright issues relate to specific figures, derivative and companion creations. Someone using DAZ's Millennium figures (or any other) in Lightwave or Max will still be governed by copyright law.

I agree with gryffnn, don't get Poser mixed up with DAZ

it would be literally impossible to create a uniform texture map that would apply to every model you could create. They'd have to all have the same geometry and the same uv coordinates, or extremely extremely similar. Youd have to copy everyone elses work just to get it that close. Similar body dimensions might be possible, but where is the fun in that? Everyone would look exactly like everyone else. And i agree with everyone else, Poser is working quite well and is already a steal. Version 5 will hopefully be better. I dont see what everyone's problem with Daz is either, as I feel they have been extremely generous with how they have done the millenium figures. As I said, if it is that big of a problem, then perhaps they should consider buying other figures somewhere else or making there own.

gnu is a nice idea, but as it is open source there are some problems there for commercial artists, no?

UV Mapping: There's no need that the geometries have the same vertices and uv coordinates, the only that is needed that the face position on the map is the same for one model and other, the eyes position on the map are the same, and so on. It don't matters if you have more vertices or less, they needen't have the same x,y,z coordinates. Remember that the texture coordinates are interpolated between the coordinates of the vertices. For example you can have a plane with a face and 4 vertices or a plane with 100 faces and ~400 vertices, but when you apply a texture they look exactlty the same. Similar dimension doesn't mean that the characters will look the same, you can scale the body parts and do the same with the clothes, apply morphs, different textures, etc

Wouldn't it be possible to make a universal texture file by using the same principle that already exists in a RIFF or PZ3? Instead of a single bitmap for the figure, with all parts arranged spatially, the texture file could be a list of the named parts with a dependent set of bitmaps for each part. This would require a certain level of standardization in names for basic parts, but would allow figures to split the parts proportionally or add other parts. Any part that had a name not recognized by the current figure (like the ChestTentacle in the example below) would simply not be used. If the current figure didn't have two actual parts in its neck, it would still use the given textures for the proportional parts. Example------ Head : X3HEAD.BMP Neck: // divided into proportions 0 TO .3: X3LOWERNECK.BMP .3 TO 1.0: X3UPPERNECK.BMP Chest: X3CHEST.BMP ChestTentacle : X3TENTACLE1.BMP

.. i do mix up Poser and DAZ quite often. und Yeah i'm sure there are no problems 4 commercial artists if GNU is involved. and YES ! I'm very happy that this discussion is well accepted ... so possible all thos great modellers i've seen out there are thinking about NOT working for a company that (besides paying lousy) prohibits creative minds to do their thing. Tnx

I don't think I would want to use Poser if all of the models had same or similar body dimensions.

New morphs are made all the time. For a morph creator to say "you can't make clothes for a figure with their morphs" is total BS! (Daz has not actually said that yet, but what they have said, is still not clear.)
We are talking about cloths. Clothes are supposed to FIT!

I think it would also be safe to assume that a model that could wear Vic clothing would also be illegal from the DAZ point of view. It would compete with Vic and reduce the need for her. If someone else had made Steph, DAZ would be very upset, I'm sure.

Looks like Vic 2 is just going to have to get naked. That's cheaper anyway.

Let's hope Daz has something more sensible to say Monday.

There good reasons why there's not total consistency in mapping. Texture maps that are not optimized for a particular model can "fit" but give unacceptable stretching in some areas, as can happen with extreme morphing of the model. Also, folks will create a different UVmap when they want to enlarge a particular area (like the iris) to be able to give it more detail on the texture map. One model can be mapped in any number of ways depending on what a particular user needs. (Thank goodness for UVmapper!)

"I don't think I would want to use Poser if all of the models had same or similar body dimensions." But you use Poser today with only two female models: Posette and Victoria !!!!! (Stephanie is almost the same as Vicky) There are many other models like Eve, Tiziana, Natalie ,Dina, etc, but few people uses them because the problem of clothes, If these models have similar shapes, everybody can use everybody clothes with little adjustments. The idea is not against the comerce, but against the MONOPOLY. Daz can continue selling their products, I can continue selling my products, the consumer can continue buying or using free items, everybody wins. What I was against is that only one wins and the rest only has the option of buying from only one.

kawecki: I agree besides healthy competition leads to competitive pricing even better models etc.(at least it should.)

Actually, and this is slightly premature, there is a team gearing up to start development on the Free Market Family. A full set of Human characters in the public domain. Once things get just a little more organized I will let everyone know where to apply and keep track of the work.

Yes - keep us informed. Probably won't do it myself, but I'll pass the information along where appropriate. thanks.