From the man that brought you gravity comes the next generation of Poser texture map creation. Photoshop will be used for all examples. Imagine a PSD with 15 layers all set at 0% opacity. The background image is just a white field with contrasting places for muscle tone. Layer 1...skin brightness. Adjust opacity for the base skin tone. Layer 2-6 Racial diversity layers. Layer 7: Freckles Layer 8: Tattoos. Layer 9-13: various makeup techniques. Layer 14: Moles. Layer 15: Eye chart (crop this layer with selected eyes and move to place. I think this would work extremely well. What do you think? I nominate tlaubach (spelling?) to give it a shot. I would do it myself, but I would n't do half as good a job as he could. -Darth Logice

Not a bad idea, but: 1) Not everyone has Layer enabled paint/image creation programs, and 2) Not all programs that DO handle layers handle them the same way. I've heard that PSP6 uses layers identically to Photoshop, but don't have it YET (plan on ordering tomorrow), and PSP5 is a little erratic, or so I've heard, with imported layers.

I knew that would be the first thing I heard "But Darth...we don't have that..." I know. But enough people do have it that it would be beneficial to the entire community. Not everyone has Poser 4 either, let's remember...so should we throw out all poser 4 ideas? -darth

Darth, I think it sounds like a great idea! I agree somewhat with CharlieBrown though that many people don't have a good image program that can handle layers, but hey, if someone would do it, upload two versions of the texture, one in psd-format, and one regular jpg, bmp, tiff or whatever without layers. There wouldn't make any difference for people without a layer proggie, they can still have access to the texture like before (doing all the adjustment theirself), but for the rest of us it would save lots of time (though I realize it will take a whole lot more time to create a "psd-texture", than a regular texture). /Bjn

That is good for the most part but I think the file sizes would prohibitive in a lot of cases ... I mean if it takes 5 minutes to download one layer how long would it take to download thirteen. I kinda like the idea in theory but it might be a pain. What I was thinking might be good would be something similar but that had a little more work. Basically a frankentexture. Have one file that had the basic texture and then another that had various eye sets that are already sizedfor the texture, another that had various lips, etc. It would allow mix and match combinations with a minimum of work. Just an idea ... Later

Hmmm...psd format textures. Not a bad idea, really. With most of us using either photo shop or paint shop that would be a nifty little deal. Use the layers you want, delete the ones you don't and then merge for the final bmp/jpg...talk about EASY, My GAWD! Darth, yer a jeenyus Kate

I think its a great idea darth that is more or less teh method that I use to great my texture maps I love the fact that poser 4 can handle layers perfectly to bad carrara cant. I would also have to agree with you on your nomination tim is a master at makeing textures only problem I can forsee is file size but even thats not a problem for most of us. Viper

CB, I don't remember exactly how PSP5 worked with imported layers--it did very well with its own and I often exported or saved as .psd, but 6 does VERY well. Even if we all don't have such programs, many do and its an interesting idea anyhow. I'm sort of trying to imagine it though--it would be fun for someone to create anyhow, most likely. Diane B

I'm prototyping it now in my limited way and time...(Must start going to work here in five minutes...won't be able to experiment more until tomorrow :( ) It's working famously though the angle I'm coming from the muscle defs are getting washed out but that's an easy workaround (add them last instead of first...duh...) I don't think the file size would be too bad zipped. -Darth

Hi Folks! Interesting idea, Darth. Another consideration might be which version of a particular program you have. Newer versions often don't behave the same way as their predecessors. I have both v3.05 and 5.0 of Photoshop (Mac) and their treatment of layering and color management is very different. I often have to take older image files rendered in Bryce and processed as pict or tiff files in v3.05 and tweak their colors or other settings in v5.0 before I can use them in Poser4. A whole nother set of issues emerges when I save them as jpegs for web uploads. And of course, there's the file size thing .... Still, it's a concept worth exploring more deeply. Peter (Dr Zik)

I use photoshop 5.5 and sometimes, though I don't know why, I also use Corel Photopaint 6. I would never bother doing this for Corel though. I believe the two standards are PSP and PS5.5. Yes yes yes yes and yes, I know not everyone has those programs, or those versions, or those PC's versus Macs blah blah blah ad infinitum, but the thing is, you see, many people have PHotoshop 5.5. If it's usable by 25% of the people here, it's worthwhile. At the very least, a whole new batch of textures will be made by those of us using it. -Darth Please, let's not kill this by highlighting the negative. I don't want any of the talented texture makers to read this and go "Well, shit, nobody wants it...why bother?"

I have done a similar project where I used several of Tims maps and layered them with varying degrees of opacity to achive the look I wanted. How about instead of a psd file, just zip up the individual layers numbered 1 through 16 as bmp, tiff or tga? this way a person can use them in any prog that suports layers with opacity. A user can easily make their own file for their individual app. There could even be many sets of these "Composite Texture Maps". Now if we could some how coax Tim...

:) I never go more than 1500 x 1500 for tex maps. If we make this and have to say "Warning: For Death-Star Computers ONly..." It would still be 100% cool as hell :) -Darth "Death Star Computer" Logice

Josiah! there ya go, that's the Spirit! Tim Ya out there???? -Darth

Maybe it is just me today but I really like this idea. It will be like colorforms with computers plus it will be a learning tool for those of us ( like me ) that are just starting to figure this part out. I have PSP6 so I should be good. Another stellar idea Darth. Marge

speaking of resolution... I used to create all my textures @ 2000x2000 but due to some kind of a strange quirk my web site doesn't like it when I have images larger than 1200x1200 so that's the size that I work in when I create all my textures... anyway.. I think that this would be a fun collaboration... (hey Darth, rather than changing opacity, have the muscle layer on top and set as soft light or luminosity or something)... Anyway.. we should pick a basic texture to use as our model... then just everybody has a crack at changing it in some way.. then we take the things that are different on each texture (skin tone, facial features, anything else) and put them into their own layer that can be turned on or off and mixed through various methods... So if you've ever made a change to one of my textures, you should email it to me and I can start putting together a file that incorporates all the variations...

Good, Tim's here smile. I don't do 'people' (as opposed to Windows-well, lame joke anyhow :>( ) just clothes. That's why I like this too, Marge. Sort of standing over someone's shoulder kind of thing. I understand the principle since I've made a lot of other textures-mainly clothes and some animals, but haven't taken the plunge on facial textures. For one thing, I still haven't found any pictures that would work--I'm still wondering where everyone found that Winona Ryder one. However, I just got a new Kodak 280zoom digital camera this week so I've been debating the hows of using it for this. Diane B

Tim you are the man! I agree with Allerleirauh though, it really would be nice if they could be 2000 x 2000! I think the collaboration idea is great, there are alot of talented texturizers(?) here (I'm just not one of them). :-)

I wonder - P4 accepts PNG file types for textures; would this be the best format for something like this to be in? They're often better quality that JPGs and comparable size...

BTW, who was it that made that awesome facial texture for the medieval man this past week or 2?--that bump map (I assume that was a big part of it) was awesome. I like 'imperfections'. I hope we can drag all the big 'texture makers' into this S. Diane B

The solution is easy. You can create one file with all the layers (ie PSD) and multiple files that have each layer seperately. The seperate files could then be combined by those who don't use a PSD layer compatible program and those who don't want to download a huge file at one time. Also make the resolution large (ie 3000x3000) as its much easier to scale down than up. It's a fantastic idea.

For some reason my poser wont accept anything above around 1500 x 1500 on a texture. I would also possibly like to see what a 13-15 layer photoshop file takes to download before everyone gets in on working on it. I have a good link at work but at 56.6 at home is seems that the file might take a while. Just wanna check it out though it seems to be a good idea. Later

I tried it with 16 layers of Tim's 1200 x 1200 textures and ps5 made a 42 meg psd file. It zipped up to 27 megs. :-(

BTW, the textures I tried it with ranged from 128k to 600k, so I dont know why the file is so big! maybe someone else wants to try? It seems it might be better to download 16 individual textures than a singe psd.

Darth, if this idea works half as well as the gravity one, you're on to another winner. I'll try it on PSP5 and see if I get a similar file size to Josiah Paul

I tried it on a 1200x1200 image by tlaubach. Unziped it came to 32.5Mb, zipped it came to 22Mb :( Looks like individual layers, or maybe 2-3 layers per PSD file are going to be the way to go Paul

I use 2000 X 2000 images for all my textures the way I build them is to have all the seperate sections of the texture map saved as seperate files Like the eye's, Face and body etc, each has its own file. Then I use PhotoShop to assemble the texture I want by putting each individual image in as a layer. I have a base image called BlankP4 , the layers are already made for each of the section names and I have directories on the hard drive with the same name. Then it is simply a matter of picking skin tone map, eye shade maps,Tatoos maps etc and then exporting the result as a LZW tiff. The idea you have is great but to make it more internetable try offering the layers as seperate downloads either high quality JPG or LZW Tiff format. Then everyone could build the file in the software they already have....Just an idea. Paul Hafeli

Great idea. But please, make it downloadable by owners of average conections.

Okay...wow...glad to see some exitement at last (going to work pays after all hehehe...) At work I hammered out some details. There would be five psds each like a little production line. I don't have time to go into it right now, but will when i get back from another lame night of Karaoke and slaughtering my favorite Metal songs (actually, I'm pretty good ;) I will also assemble a vague prototype and post it in a new thread and then I will die of exhaustion and collapse on the keyboard. Way to go Renderosity! -Darth_Logice

I second Hafeli's suggestion--offering the maps in seperate layers will give the users a little more freedom in what they decide on using. However--my preference would be fewer layers--perhaps a multiplier map for use with figure coloring in Poser. That way the base color can be set in poser, and the texture map can be applied to the top of it.

Fantastic Idea Darth! I'ts amazing how a solution like yours is staring us all right in the face all the time aint, it? I regularly use upwards of 15 layers for all my PShop images.( PShop 5.0, Mac, 256MB) So multiple layers are no prob here. Add to that the ability to add only what needs adding or change only what needs changing. Well I'm very impressed and interested. ANything I can do to help, I'm there! jje

Darth- I see a couple of problems: The layers aren't going to work as well as you think, whatever in non-transparent in a layer will completely obscure anything below, and anything partly transparent will partly obscure it. Layers work fine for tattoos and moles, because you are not expecting to see much else there, and they work very well for things like lady's stockings that will really just slightly modify what is below. The other problem is file size, as pointed out. The only way to transfer is JPEG, PSD files just don't compress well enough. Incidently, I have never seen the need to go past 1600 x 1600 for a map. I regularly do my texture with about 6 layers AND several channels AND several paths- a channel can be more useful than a layer, channels convert to selections, remember, and the selection can be used for various operations on a layer. Paths are nice too, and can be combined with channels and selections to modify layers. But the 20 Mb files are much too big to download- they are just a tool to make the JPEG.