Any chance the P5 manual can be posted online ASAP so that we can review the new additions while we wait for the final software? I know you may not want to do this, so that the warez monkeys can't avail themselves of it, but since the P4 manual is online... - Ray Yamka

The manual is currently in the final stages of preparation. Once it is completed, I will discuss posting it. I am not sure what, if anything, we will decide to do prior to release. Anthony Hernandez Documentation Manager Curious Labs

the only reason i can think of to post the p5 manual at this point in time is so that the people who supposedly have already warezed the beta version can avail themselves of it. Any features and additions can be seen just as easily in a new features page.

"the only reason i can think of to post the p5 manual at this point in time is so that the people who supposedly have already warezed the beta version can avail themselves of it." I Don't feel that's the case. I can see real benefits to distributing it. I'm one of those sad, unadventurous folks who like to read the manual of any new software before booting it up (once moved a tech support person to near-tears of gratitude when I demonstrated a real familiarity with the manual for PhotoStyler BEFORE calling her - she'd given up on ever talking to a customer who would admit to even seeing it in the box...). I'd enjoy at least a good browse of the manual to tide me thru the cold lonely period until I get my copy of the program. I confess a deep curiosity about (among other things), the P5 folder structure, configurable interface options, and tons of other stuff that can't be discerned from drooling over the promotional materials and informations thus far posted. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing CL to release it before they feel it appropriate, but there are benefits to some Poser-holics by disseminating it. At the very least it may cut down some of the support calls and posts in the first days after shipping - may even enable more of us to deal with some of the problems for each other if it's a good as I expect from Anthony's previous comments.

I agree with Leather-Guy, I read manuals all the time just to make sure I understand the changes and new additions. Sharen

Heya..... just wanna point out........ The "Manual" is the holy book that you can get when you purchased the software right ? So... taht'll make warezer much easier to pick on the Poser 5. Maybe ....... What is needed is not the "manual". But perhaps tutorials, standard review, preview or anything to shed a light of this new "mistery" software.

I do agree that being able to look at the manual before buying the software is a nifty thing, and as one of those people who actually like perusing through old stuffy books I agree with you, I was just expressing my opinion that making it freely available online at this time, especially before the software is actually released, just so everyone can see what the new poser has to offer just didnt sound like a sound idea to me. It was just my opinion and not meant to be an accusation or insult to anyone who would want to see the manual. Hell, I wouldnt mind seeing it myself. I just dont think its a good idea.

I can see it both ways and it is unfortunate that we have to worry about Warez, but since we do, I am sure the way CL has decided to handle it is the best way for all us anxious people. Sharen :-)

The Poser 4 manual was already made available, so why would there be a problem with the Poser 5 manual?!

If they can warez the program they can just as easily warez the manual (ok, I admit it I wanna see the manual too!) and BTW do the P5 people wear P4 or millinium clothes?

If it helps anyone who's interested, The Poser 5.0 Handbook is available now at Amazon.com ($15.00 off the regular cover price). The book isn't cheap, but if does come with an extras CD full of free stuff. If you like 3rd party books the way I do, then this would be a good start. Although I love all the new features in ver.5, I'm not looking forward to having to learn a lot of new stuff; hell I haven't even mastered all the features of Poser 4 with Pro Pack yet!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=819759

OK, I'm going to show MAJOR IGNORANCE HERE! What is a WAREZ? I've seen in mentioned in a few threads and I have no clue who or what they are. Most I can figure is that they are part of the AXIS OF EVIL!

Look, I know my views on warez aren't terribly popular, but here goes.

If CL has a PDF manual included with the software (like just about every other major software vendor out there) then the warez kiddies will have it. And they won't read it. Instead they will come here and ask silly questions, and we will answer them in our quest to be enduringly helpful.

I know warez are a huge problem for CL, for rosity merchants, for everyone.. but if EVERYTHING we do is an effort to avoid being scooped or stolen from, we will just be disappointed, because it happens every time regardless of what hurdles we leap over to prevent it. I have seen every single one of my products on p2p networks. I have seen dozens of gallery posts by people whose names aren't on my purchase list (and, may have purchased items under another name.) But there's nothing I can do about it, so I don't sweat it. Honest people will buy my products, just like honest people will buy Poser 5 and read the manual. Curious Labs could post it on their website, and it won't make Poser 5 more or less difficult to warez. (I just wish people would make HTML versions of manuals, so I could copy and paste text for reference.)

OK. Done ranting. Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.

kiera :: enmeshed

warez = pirated software

Ahhhh....Huh? Why warez? Is it an acryonym? Sorry, just curious!

Warez, like in softWARE. The z in the end is supposed to make it fancy :o) Like when the ScRiPtKiDdIeS type like this...

dude! i ain't no skr1pt k1dd1e! eYE aM aN eREET cHiXoR. ;)

For God's Sake don't buy ANYTHING written by the SHAM (Shamms Mortier) - that's LITERALLY throwing your money away. Back when I was new to Bryce I WASTED money to buy his Bryce book, which was a total piece of pointless SHIT, incredibly BADLY WRITTEN and far far LESS informative than the manual. It's one of the few books I ever actually threw in the garbage (within a week of buying it).

HahAHaHaHaHAHa1!

my favorite was a comment someone made on one of his books at a review site. It was the only good review he got, with the comment posted - excellent for campfires.

I was very very UNfortunate to pick up his book on Poser before I knew much, lets put it like this its probably the only book Not collecting dust because the dust doesnt even want to know it. I much prefer the Poser 4 Pro Pack f/x & Design by Richard Schrand nicely written. David

'I just wish people would make HTML versions of manuals, so I could copy and paste text for reference' Right on, Kiera! I HATE PDF docs! Nothing but a pain to use, huge in file size and hopeless to browse. A curse on Adobe for ever having invented it. The equivalant of half a meg of PDF is about 50k in html. mac PS I notice Adobe, despite having the proprietary PDF format, now make their own Help files in html. What does that tell you about PDF? That it stinks, maybe?

Software companies should do what the paying customers want, because those are the people they need on their side. If R'osity folks want a PDF Poser 5 manual early, they should get it. If this makes the software easier to use for warez pirates.. too bad. As much as I am against piracy, I am even more against anti-piracy measures that inconvenience or limit benefits to paying customers. I will not even buy software with a dongle or keydisk system after an experience I had with my legally purchased Pro Tools 4.3. Toolbox. People who steal software will steal software. No amount of copy protection will turn these people into paying customers, they are leeches who use what they can get, and they are willing to devote hundreds of hours to tracking down the warez. Hours that any reasonable person would understand the value of, in terms of time better spent making art!!! -Adam

hugs maclean YER MY HERO! =) flips the bird to Adobe

.pdf files have one advantage - they're incredibly difficult to edit (even with the right software.) If you want to produce a document that most people can't screw with, use .pdf. Not many people have Adobe Acrobat, just Reader, so your documents are relatively safe. (Good for order forms, etc.) For things like Help Manuals, .pdf isn't necessary. If a client is stupid enough to change the html file then call and complain, it's their fault, not yours. And I'll love to get an advanced peak at the manual!

Leather-guy: AMEN, BROTHER!

As far as I can tell, the ONLY reason to have a pdf file is so that nobody can copy any of it into anything else. There's NO explaining the GIGANTIC file size when compared to the same text done in something else like html - except that maybe adobe wanted the files to be as unwieldy and unmanageable as possible.

Actually, this is a huge misconception. PDF files are quite small when you consider what they are capable of displaying. yes a simple TEXT ONLY HTML file is smaller than a TEXT ONLY HTML (or other) file. However, manuals generally have quite a few pictures and/or illustrations, and for all intensive purposes ARE a digital representation of the paper manual. Most PDF files are fully searchable (the ones done right that is) and are quite small compared to almost any other medium incorporating text AND graphics. With that said, I think a PDF manual is ABSOLUTELY NO substitute for a REAL help file. I can't stand it when companies provide a PDF of the manual but not a help file (HTML, standard Windows, or otherwise.) That is completely infuriating. If I want to look at the manual, I'll whip out the manual and use the Index. When I want help, I want a HELP FILE.

Well, CL could distribute the manual within an exe loader that searches your hard drive for a legit copy of P4 or PPP and then ask for your registered serial number to unlock it. Or, since all of us have registered copies, just send the manual if we respond in an email with our serial number in the subject line. There are a lot of vendors out there who will send you to a protected, password-locked site to download the product you purchased. I just purchased IFW2 textures for Mac LW7.5 from Richard Jennings and that's what happened. Another instance was when I beta-tested Ozone 2 for e-on software for LightWave. I was given a secure site to download the product, but I had to give them my hardware lock to obtain a serial number to install and use the plug-in. Just my $.02US - now back to my hole under Middle Earth for a while...