I heard some rumors that Poser 5 will have the new anti-piracy thingy included with it. (not really sure how it works) But I'm in the process of building a new machine for myself. Will I have any problems using the Poser 4 and Pro Pack serial numbers from my old machine when I try to install Poser 5 on my new machine? Thanks, Panicky in Upgradeville

You only need the old Poser 4 serial numbers for verification when you're ordering the upgrade from Curious Labs. The actual installation doesn't require your old serial numbers, although it does create a unique "challenge code" that Curious Labs must verify before you can receive a "response code" to activate your copy of P5.

Take slow, deep breathes ... there, that's better. ;) My understanding is that the 'anti-piracy thingy' is similiar to the one that CL used for the original ProPack. After you've installed the software, you'd step through a little routine that generates a code sequence. Hit the CL site with the code sequence and you get another sequence back that you feed to the routine. The software is then unlocked and ready to go. That's the way it worked when I beta tested the ProPack anyway. The Poser4 and ProPack serial numbers are to verify that you've bought those products and are more for point-of-purchase rather then the install.

Ah...whew! Feeling a little better now. Less panicky, but still anxious to get my Poser 5! Thanks!

anybody here got WinXP? this challenge code sounds very much like the one for that, here's how winXP goes, install windows, get challenge code, contact MS with challenge code, MS replys with activation code, enter activation code, windows starts working. Does that sound like how Poser5 is going to be? Rob

The ProPack "virtual dongle" was supposed to be introduced by the first bugfix release and then withdrawn. If Poser5 will now bring it back, it'll be a wise idea to state it clearly before people start to order it, or the same firestorm break out again.

Well, I already ordered, and when the virtual dongle records hardware, it makes hardware upgrade very costly in lost time, hired tech support, and yada yada for the user who wants to put in a faster chip or ghost to a larger HD. While I do support anti piracy stuff, I do not support schemes that create this kind of crime on the american economy. If I have to spend one NY second with tech support after an upgrade, I guarantee I'll make it painful for them to deal with me.

...it'll be a wise idea to state it [copy protection] clearly before people start to order it... Actually, that it exists is quite clear to anyone who reads the released P5 docs. This issue came up when it was supposed to be introduced with ProPack. The public response was so negative that CL decided against it. I guess that was our turn and it is only fair that CL gets their turn now. I must admit that I can understand why they want copy protection. At any rate, it is their product so I guess they can do what they want with it. But having said that, I agree with EricofSD. I already have a registered program with a similar scheme and it has been no end of exasperation. But unlike EricofSD I will not be giving CL any hassle. I simply will not be buying P5. Having spent several thousand on "accessory" Poser items I find it more than irritating that I have come to the end of the road with Poser. I expect the day will come when systems will no longer run P4/ProPack so this marks the end of my Poser related purchases and I'm going to get used to doing without it. If nothing else, I have learned that I will never invest so much in a single program again. I am surprised to find that although disappointed I am not bitter about this turn of events. I wish CL the best of luck but I also wish they did not find it necessary to assume that we are all thieves. - Jack

A decent place to state the new protection would be the ordering page or even the official P5 information pages on the CL website. The suggestion that you only need to download the lo-res manual and read it is a bit cute - somehow reminds me on Douglas Adam's "city bypass" in the first hitch-hiker novel (not to mention the vogons... :-) What strikes me a bit is the "logic" behind this scheme, which goes a bit like this: We are sure that the protection will not bother anyone and will be accepted by everyone, we just obscure the advance information as much as possible, because otherwise no-one will buy it... :-) I agree with Jack - being on Mac there is no need to hurry anyway (I was considering buying the PC version now, which I will not do with respect to this new piece of information), and I guess it is just time to wave bye-bye to Poser and spend money on some new toys...

You know.... After September 15(pre-order shiped), sure this place will be flooded with this issue.

I read the low res. manual last night and I didn't find any mention of having to get a code before I can use the program......but I'm in the group that's not going to buy it if I have to get their permission via a code, to use it every time I have to install it, or if I want to use it on my laptop too.....

Dizzie, Page 19 contains the following: "After installation, you will need to securely register/authorize your copy of Poser 5. You must contact Curious Labs either by telephone, email, or via secure Web connection in order to complete the process. You will be prompted to register your copy of Poser 5 when you launch it." I asked a CL representative if this meant I would need a new code if changes to my hardware or OS were made. I was advised "in most cases, no." Of course, the corollary is "in some cases, yes." Perhaps CL has done me a favour by instituting copy protection. It has forced me to start using Wings3D and the copy of Carrara 2 I recently purchased. (Wings3D for modeling, Carrara for staging, texturing and rendering.) Frankly, I find the idea of knowing that a piece is completely by own, without reliance upon other peoples' creativity, both exhilarating and liberating. - Jack

Okay now I'm getting panicky again. I have WinXP and plan to reinstall it on my new computer. What kind of hellish tortures do I have in store for me? I don't understand why it would be so frustrating (I know I'm missing something) Isn't is just a matter of calling in your serial number and getting it reauthorized? And I'm assuming the same hellish torture would apply to Poser 5 if I wanted to upgrade again in the future? Again, I'm showing my ignorance, but what could be SO BAD that it would make someone stop using the product?

"I don't understand why it would be so frustrating (I know I'm missing something) Isn't is just a matter of calling in your serial number and getting it reauthorized? ... Again, I'm showing my ignorance, but what could be SO BAD that it would make someone stop using the product?" Pzrite, If you are fortunate it will indeed be only a matter of requesting a new code, and it will probably be an automated system via the web. It may well be that this will be nothing more than a minor inconvenience for most users. However, the last few years I have replaced my notebook computer with a new one annually. Furthermore, as I experiment with software a lot I often reformat my system to get a clean slate. As I mentioned earlier, I have a program with a similar copy protection scheme. Every single time I made anything more than a trivial change I had to request a new code even though I was assured otherwise. I no longer use it. Simply put, I object to feeling like a beggar asking for a handout just to use something for which I have already paid. Neither do I wish to do business with anyone who implicitly assumes that I am a potential thief. That is not the basis of a good relationship. For this same reason I decided not to purchase ZBrush. The bottom line is that I no longer believe that my uninterrupted use and availability of a Poser 5 installation is assured. As I have sold digital work both commercially and as art I would be a fool to allow myself to depend upon Poser any longer. Deadlines are more than just inconvenient and one avoids future problems by not setting oneself up to let them happen. Let me reiterate: I completely understand and sympathize with Curious Labs' position in this matter. Nonetheless I do not agree with it and cannot in good conscience be a part of it. If that means I discard a substantial financial investment in the Poser world, so be it. It's not the end of the world. Life's too short for this crap. - Jack

Well I guess it's all a matter of perspective and how much an individual feels is too much hassle. For the past two years my wife and I have had to deal with insurance companies and claims departments that would pretty much leave you feeling suicidal after dealing with them. I won't go into details but it had to do with endless red tape, incompetent agents, paperwork up the arse and a lot of begging and threatening. If Curious Labs doesn't ask to see my Social Security number, birth certificate, financial records, personal references or my cat's pet license, I'll consider it a hassle-free experience! :)

...Well I guess it's all a matter of perspective and how much an individual feels is too much hassle. Agreed. ...If Curious Labs doesn't ask to see my Social Security number, birth certificate, financial records, personal references or my cat's pet license, I'll consider it a hassle-free experience! :) I sincerely hope you enjoy and get good use out of P5. Please do not interpret this as directed to you personally but the longer we accept such restrictions the more restrictions we will see. While we talk about rights and freedoms it's much like sex. All we do is talk about it... - Jack

I have Poser on my Computer thats not on the internet!!!! I suppose I will have to call them?

@Turtle - No, you'd just have to take the code generated during the verify process, hit the CL site and key in the code. You'd then get a code back from the CL site that you key into the verify routine. I had to do it when I beta'd the ProPack and it took all of 5 minutes.

I would put myself on the wait and see list, wait until after sept. 15th & read what the people are *itching about. I expect complaints about copy protection hassles, not being able to get through on the web site is my biggest worry. Who wants to waits for a returned e-mail or phone call when they re-install? I reformat my computer every 3 months or so, & this "response code" thing bothers me. If and when I get P5, It will be a clean install (after a reformat) and I will most likely back up my entire HD, so I can "hopefully use that backup to restore with. The hopefully part is that this method will work.

Attached Link: http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=158

If you use a proprietary OS to make a video or audio track, or to write a research paper, and save it in one of the default proprietary electronic data formats, you might soon find yourself actually paying someone else run-time and/or license renewal fees just to access your own creations. Not to mention any charges that may apply to distributing copies to others (whether directly or because the recipient must also pay similar runtime or recurring fees to access the data). You tell me, when you have to pay one particular vendor money every time you or someone else views a movie you created, who owns the movie? ..."
--Andreas Pour (check the URL for the detail.)

Jack, this is just the beginning!!!!!

hflam, not in my lifetime... Rob, my install of XP went; install XP, boot into safe mode, install reset prog, chain into boot sequence, switch off "tour" notification... restart. At no point did I feel the need to contact MS, not that they would have helped, since I don't have a German version of XP, (well, actually I do, I just don't use it :) My mate is trying to do the honourable thing at the mo' he too has a German version, so he phoned MS, they said, "not interested, contact your OEM supplier" so he tried that, and they said, "we don't do support, try the PC manufacturer..." he's running out of options :) I'll register P5 once, for the same reason I leave my seatbelt buckled untill the captain turns off the setbelt sign. But given the number of times I re-install per year I don't intend re-authorise everytime. I'll wait for the crack. Because if the crackers can remove dongles and build key gens for large seed eliptic curve stream ciphers, then nothing CL can build is going to stop them. later jb

[[If Curious Labs doesn't ask to see my Social Security number, birth certificate, financial records, personal references or my cat's pet license, I'll consider it a hassle-free experience! ]] What about when this Multiple-step hassle is standard for ALL software, and it takes a week or more to reformat & reload a system instead of a couple of days? What about when they decide you've had "too many" authorizations and must be a thief, and cut you off so you have to buy a new copy? I don't think I'll be buying Poser5 either. It'll be interesting to see just how many former customers they terminally alienate with this crap.

Freedom was once a certainty... Then fighting for it became the norm... Now, we have to look into a dictionnary to know what it means? :-( You are taking about Cies going Bankrupt! What about the web? How long do you truly think it's going to last anyway? :-) Well, that was fun! Take my words with a grain of salt... Just stopped smoking! :-O Marco(Viomar)

To answer some questions: The system is fully automated and takes less than 1 minute if your machine is connected to the internet. If it's not you can manually register a number of different ways. Basicly your choices will be. 1) Instant via Web 2) Manual via Web (copy and paste yourself - for example if your machine w/ P5 on it doesn't have a web connection) 3) E-Mail 4) Fax 5) Postal You also will have a grace period to run the app so that if you can't do the first two you can run the app while waiting for your response to the last 3. -Rylan

Ahhhh.... that grace period thing hasn't been mentioned before. Here's a ? I haven't seen before - is there going to be a demo?

There should be a demo at some point. Right now no.

"While I do support anti piracy stuff, I do not support schemes that create this kind of crime on the american economy. If I have to spend one NY second with tech support after an upgrade, I guarantee I'll make it painful for them to deal with me." Dude, you're an end-user. Write your own software if you're that fanatical about a company's users license agreement. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

I support anti-piracy, but I don't like the activation code idea. I use deskproto 3.0. They use dongle. I use Mimic 1.0. They need the program CD in drive to run Mimic. I use Cinema 4D XL 7.3. They need the temp serial # on invoice to get a permanent serial # to run beyond 30 days. All these protections are fine to me. On the other hand, I use Omnipage 8. They use activation code. I need to call them to get a new code every time when I reload the software due to computer crash. Very annoying! That is why I no longer use it. I use DeepPaint 3D 2.0. They also use activation code. I was not aware of this until I bought it. I would not upgrade this program. I am using win2000 pro and decide not to upgrade to win XP pro because of the activation code system MS is using. Bottom line is that I would only consider buying softwares from those companies who care about users' feelings when they find ways to protect their software from piracy.

"Bottom line is that I would only consider buying softwares from those companies who care about users' feelings when they find ways to protect their software from piracy." Would you really "care about users' feelings" if you were selling a great software package that you designed and put great time and effort into and didn't want others to pirate it? SHONNER http://www.shonner.com