I just came back from the Poser/LW and Poser5 Workshops at Dragon*Con by Joe Grover and from what I saw the dynamics and cloth work and are as dynamite as the face/texture, hair and materials rooms. Joe did show some issues with the cloth functions, trick and hints from the beta tester. This is shaping up to be an incredible package with the content (Paradise) room yet to be seen beyond the male (Mr.Clean) and female characters. Joe was very positive about the Content room, which apparently will include a variety of artists including Renderosity merchants. From what I am hearing and seeing, this is going to be a lot of good to fantastic stuff and a few things not addressed, as is always the case with such version upgrades. However this upgrade seems to be well worth waiting for..

I think the strenght of emotion driving the whirlwind of paranoia surrounding this package is only going to be equalled by the pleasure that will be felt soon after you slam the P5 disk your CD-ROM drive...and just go with the flow on the security process. I imagine that any defense that CL chooses for Poser5 is driven by a true belief it is worth the effort to safeguard the investment. It may be required for the CEO's liability insurance (typically CEOs and even Board of Directors obtain insurance to cover a lawsuit alleging mismanagement for any company failure... which may mandate "industry standards" for product theft).

To me this is an incredible product at an incredible price...However I grew up with a slide ruler...remember those ancient artefacts! Enjoy Poser 5, I truly feel that all of this anticipation jitters will past in about 10 days and personally I do not want to do anything to slow this delivery process down.

Mick Glant
...just off the road from Atlanta
...Thanks Joe, enjoyed the hints, enthusiasm, sharing lunch and a peek at what I wanted to see (and now can not wait to get my hands on)!!!

Thanks for the info :) Did you get to see the poser 5 kids and animals? Do they look better than the P4 ones?

Thanks for the report Mick. I'm glad to hear you were impressed and trust you will enjoy P5 thoroughly. I did think your easy dismissal of the concerns of many as mere paranoia somewhat condescending though I suspect this was not your intent. Oh well, my reaction is qualitative, not quantitative- I don't have my slipstick handy... grin. - Jack

No the first workshop was a walk through of the various "rooms", but we used mainly the Poser 5 male figure. Joe beta tested the cloth room and spent time illustrating some issues to consider in cloth design and use. He is coming out with a 2 hour Poser 5 video tape tutorial (3-AXIS). Joe seemed to be impressed with the entire content approach and quality.

P5 is going to take more power, but if you really want results like this package can produce, you really have no choice but to get the machine that will do it...with hardware prices these days, this is the most obtainable of the requirements for Poser 5. I have had 10 computers going back to 1989...a lot of expensive boat anchors. If you did not buy computers back then, then you do not appreciated the hardware and software heaven we are experiencing now.

The full day workshop was mainly animation related with PoserPP/LW, but unfortunately the other presenter, Joe's partner, who does the LW end of things, had a family emergency and he could not come. It was an intimate group of about 6 and Joe for 8 hours diving into the animation palate and graph with a variety of tips and illustrations making the visit worth it in many ways. He illustrated slick ways to fix BVH files, setting up ambient movement. He uses more of a problem solving approach in a more open forum than a set presentation. I personally enjoy this an found it similar to the Lee Strahan approach with his LW workshops.

You will see me back in Atlanta next year. I sure hope the turnout for Renderosity members is much better than this year. The presentation rooms were largely empty or attended by what I imagine were not mainline computer artists. And I can tell you this Dragoncon group is highly entertaining. It is a culture that I did not know existed in such a robust way. The comedic punchline was that the Baptists Convention that overlapped the last day created the most amazing contrast of white lace church dresses of the Baptist ladies and the Dragoncon members' dominantly black, leather, tatoos, fantansy, piercings, monsters, mystical, etc. What a scene.

"I imagine that any defense that CL chooses for Poser5 is driven by a true belief it is worth the effort to safeguard the investment. It may be required for the CEO's liability insurance (typically CEOs and even Board of Directors obtain insurance to cover a lawsuit alleging mismanagement for any company failure... which may mandate "industry standards" for product theft)." This is the most horrible thing I've read yet!! Insurance companies dictating copy protection. Legitimate honest users have no recourse whatsoever! How can they quantify product losses due to piracy? They can't. They just make up figures and prove them with actuarial tables that mean nothing!! Then they make money through premiums while we're stuck with this gawdawful protection scheme.

I was so excited when I first heard about P5. I want to get it so badly. This sounds wonderful, despite any program issues. I just want to know if CL's EULA that is in the manuel is going to be the final one. It's worded and set up in a most merchant strangling manner. I'm very concerned and worried about it. To date, I've read the EULA carefully over 10 times trying to rationalize that it will be okay. I so hope something will be done.

Spit: why are you so horrified that insurance companies are dictating copy protection: They have been dictating the quality of medical care in the US for years (HMO's)

Spit, You ask how can they quantify product losses and dismiss it as mere rhetoric. Unfortunately, you are wrong. Companies can indeed quantify their product losses, and it burns like cold ash in the belly of any developer who depends upon those product sales to remain in business. I'll give you two examples. Some of you guys scream like blue banshees about having to connect or call in ONCE to register Poser 5. None of you apparently remember Sierra Online and the old adventure games where the copyright protection ranged from peering through dark red film (find the right fingerprint) to hunting the snark (7th word, 4th paragragh, page 62) to pecking out exotic code sequences for navigating droid ships (gods of space help the poor dyslexic!)... and you had to do this EVERY time you wanted to play the game, and adventure games took a long time to play, even if your game didn't crash, or your computer didn't crash, or you had to share it with others in the family. Every time. But it was a game, so you didn't mind... especially when they put the red film in a piece of cardboard shaped like a hand lense. But there were enough yelps that Ken Williams decided to experiment. He released one game without copy protection of any kind. Sierra Online sold 3 times as many hint books as they did copies of that game. From their excellent surveys and 10 year's worth of data, they knew how many of their players were apt to also buy the hint books, but even without extrapolating, they had some pretty damning numbers staring them in the face. They didn't have to "make up figures and prove them with actuarial tables". The second example is from a much smaller company. I helped with "Hong Kong Mah Jong Pro" from Nine Dragons Software about a decade ago. It is a one person company specializing in that one game, so it was distributed through Electronic Arts. At a Game Developer's Convention within a year or so of release, Julian handed me a shrink-wrapped box. I blinked, and blinked again. It was our box, but it was all in Chinese. Beautiful job of duplicating it. Pity that they didn't ask permission. A greater pity that they didn't pay Julian or EA even a single penny's worth of royalties. When the authorities find and close a factory crammed with pirated software hot off the burner or nab a container (I think that's what they call the big boxes they load onto ships?) full of packaged software, they know how many CDs of what product have just been pulled out of the distribution channel. I'm not going to say that nobody makes up figures. There are companies like Enron. :: But to imply that all companies do is a far and untenable claim. Carolly

The reality is not that insurance companies demand such things as copyright protection attempts, but that the investors of companies do. This drives the CEO's and BOD decisions, which includes covering their "rears" with insurance. Since banks and insurance companies do a pretty good job of covering their "rears" for their investors, the charges are likely generous...after all don't they own most of the big buildings downtown!

I understand the ProPack's release because of security problems, almost destroyed CL. It is because of the growth of Poser communities and the content support of that community that justified taking the risks to create this new version. In some ways Poser's strength is the extensive and cost effective content. CL recognizes how important this community is, but to continue to expand this platform, the money that keeps CL programming has to be protected. Growing content without an evolving Poser is as detrimental as a strong program without content. Look at the cost of models in all of the "higher end" programs (not to mention the quality). Poser content kicks butt at a bargin price. But only the broad "paying" user base of Poser will allow CL to continue to invest in its growth. This is a symbiotic relationship but not one that all of the users can replace the role of CL nor more than CL can afford to recreate the user base's robust content development. CL has to want this to continue and will not want to jepardize it.

Movida...I know about that and it doesn't make me happy either. My health insurance is within a few dollars of my rent. It's a very frightening situation. First of all, Carolly, I have posted not one word in ANY of the threads here or anywhere else about the new scheme. So nobody has heard one complaint from me about calling up once or a thousand times or anything. Don't put me in the league of 'blue banshees' by association. Thank you very much. Secondly the pirates weren't as many or as skilled in the old days. If it were today the Sierra game would have been cracked immediately so no comparison could ever be made. Thirdly, counting the number of boxes in the container does not give you a figure for lost sales. It only gives you the number of boxes the pirates hope to sell. It doesn't tell you squat about how many of the boxes get into hands of people that would otherwise have purchased it legally. And there's the rub. This is where the estimates become fuzzy accounting. And the whole matter being in the hands of the insurance companies means we as customers no longer have a say in anything. The insurance companies don't give a hoot about customers of their customers which is something that should concern CL too. I understand perfectly, as do all of us, that CL needs to protect it's investment somehow. But I don't trust insurance companies to have a clue what would be the best way of doing it. I'm not saying the insurer says 'use this method'. They don't have to. All they have to do is approve of 'this method'. And pleasing/placating investors rather than customers has been the downfall of many companies.

...This is a symbiotic relationship but not one that all of the users can replace the role of CL nor more than CL can afford to recreate the user base's robust content development. CL has to want this to continue and will not want to jepardize it. This is the crux of the problem. CL absolutely needs paying customers. But an apparently significant number of those customers are discovering they may not need CL. Nobody wins and the world moves on... - Jack

I remember those sierra games. (on the amiga.) Talk about a pain in the rear. But even that didn't stop copying. People would do things like photo copy the code Disc, in Lucasarts Battle of britain, and reassemble it. But as was said there just wasn't the ridiculously organized piracy there is today. Copy protection is of no real effect today. If CL has to placate their investors then so be it, but i just wish the investors or insurance companies would just face reality, get educated, and try courting the good will of the honest customer. In that way they might win the hearts of some would-be cheapo and prevent him/her from taking the easy and cheap way out of engaging in piracy.

"He is coming out with a 2 hour Poser 5 video tape tutorial (3-AXIS)" Thanks for the report! Do you have a link for the folks making the tape tutorial your mentioned? Thanks! Michael

Yes you can check out the following... "Poser 5 Demystified" is the title Call 800-593.AXIS or order at www.3-axis.com price if $60+shipping 2 hours of "micro-movies" Mick