Dear Poser Forum, Product forums are amazingly powerful tools for consumers to discuss their feelings about products either before or after purchasing them. They are also tremendous opportunities for product developers to understand what the consumers want, if they are willing to listen to what is being said on the forums. We at Zygote have always tried to listen to what you have wanted from us. We are still listening to you. Zygote is clearly a capitalistic enterprise that is responsible to its shareholders and employees. We need to earn money to survive. Every model we build for Poser is a business decision right down to the free models that we give away every week (it should be no surprise that we do it with the intention to keep you visiting our site on a regular basis). The Millennium Woman "Victoria" is easily our most costly model that we have ever developed for Poser. We decided to build her at a time when the future of Poser as a product was up in the air. It may not have been the soundest business decision but we wanted to show you that we are still in strong support of the Poser product. Poser will survive and we hope to remain a part of its development directly and indirectly. Your support of us is the only factor in the decision of whether or not we continue Poser development. Thank you for all your support to date. Due to your feedback, we are in the process of developing new morph targets that will offer all of the facial flexibility of the standard P4 woman (including facial and ethnicity morphs) as well as a some body morph targets. We may even throw in a few bonus targets as well. This will be available for a free download with an installer off of our web-site as soon as they are finished. Our decision to build new Poser woman was based on the limitations of the existing P4 woman. One of the greatest improvements of the Victoria model is the added geometry in the face and body. The added geometry will allow users increased flexibility in creating targets that are not capable with the previous Poser Woman. As for the issue of the new woman not conforming to existing clothing, when we were developing her we realized that if we were to change the body and add additional blend zones it would create compatibility issues. It was not an easy decision but we opted to go with the creation of a new nude figure that has better flexibility. We are currently investigating the feasibility of developing an update that will allow the Poser 4 clothing models to conform to the Victoria model. We apologize for using the forum to show this letter. We have always been very cautious about our posts to the list. We have felt that since this is in direct response to your concerns that we should go ahead and post it here anyway. We sincerely appreciate your feedback on the new woman model whether it has been positive or negative. As always, we stand by our products and continue to guarantee satisfaction.Hopefully these efforts will help to maintain the quality level that is expected from Zygote. Thank you, All of us at Zygote

DougW: Thanks for the letter and all the Info. It is much appreciated. Paul Hafeli

A patch for hte clothes would be a real challenge. I work with engineers who are trying to make add-ons for RDS - NOT easy.

Thank you and I do think she is a really good model. The only thing that I was disappointed in was the lack of flexibility which you are addressing for free. I have always thought that you were receptive and very helpful. All that and you produce some very fine models. Thanks

Doug: Victoria is a fantastic model and the additional morphs sounds great.As a graphic designer who has had custom models created in the past I realize how much work must have gone into creating her. I think we are so used to the free downloads available for Poser that we are getting spoilled into thinking that everything should be FREE! I for one am amazed by the detail in the Victoria model and thank you not only for the free morphs to come but also for your companies continue support for the program we all love. otaku

Well now I feel bad for complaining ;-) -Jeff H.

There was a lot more 'hype' about this model than usual, and I think eveyone had their own expectations of what it would include, that it would be some sort of breakthrough. I doubt that any one model could match everyones expectations. I think what Victoria offers is a massive amount of potential for the future, and in that sense it is a breakthrough, but it can be difficult achieving that potential from day one. Ian

Thanks for making that post Doug; it`s good to see that our comments here are indeed being looked at and evaluated. Ironically, I read this at the very moment that my download of Victoria had started, having, like many, been chewing over the "whether to buy now or not at all..." I suspect that significant numbers have already purchased her, and are therefore heartened to see this commitment Zygote are making to customer satisfaction.

needed to be said, and we all feel better now, knowing we are heared and there will be morphs at least. this really shows Zygote is doing a good job! keep on! -Ede

Thanks Doug, This should solve the problems many of us had with this release. I would like to request that the introductory pricing be continued until at least a week after the new, free morph pack becomes available? :-) No one should feel bad about complaining about the lack of morphs. It was a bad mistake they weren't included, and complaining likely has resulted in this decision to make them available, and for free. Thanks again to Zygote, it's a big step in restoring my opinion of the company! Fiontar

Thanks Doug! I ordered "Vickie" on CD, so haven't had the chance to look her over yet. Since I plan to make my own "modifications", who she resembles initially is not a concern for me. Besides, there will be dozens of characters based on her around here soon enough. Thanks for making her available at, what I consider to be, a modest price and for addressing our concerns about basic morph targets (most generous of you folks to offer them for free!). This, and what you say will follow, should make Poser 4 viable for a lot longer and that's good news for all of us :o) -Jim Moore

Hi Folks! Doug, thank you and Zygote for showing such an interest in and responsiveness to us here at the Poser Forum. If only another company that produces Poser products (which shall remain nameless here) had been so approachable!! I look forward to ordering my personal copy of Victoria in a few days as well as extolling her virtues to my 3D design and Animation students. Peter (Dr Zik)

I want to add my thanks too Doug ...I've been a satisfied customer a while...I personally love Vicky and glad Zygote made her availible... She's probably the best model I've ever purchased for the price.. Now I'm even happier for the update and so glad you posted .. I'm also pleased that Zygote listened to the complaints .. I know Zygote doesn't put out shotty goods or bad service, least from my experience.. That's why I continue doing business with your company... I personally don't know another enterprise that puts out human models in poser format with this quality, and for a program whose future is in serious question at that.. The human body must be the hardest type 3D model to build..I can only image... Thanks again =) ~Cindy

Seems as though everything has been said, but I decided Saturday evening to buy her after I saw the first few posts and visited Zygote's site and saw the templates. I really felt and continue to feel that Victoria will become the P4 default (I mean the members 'default', really). Obviously, from my posts, I'm pleased with her so far--but I'll love morphs and clothes G. Diane B

Thanks Doug!- Some were of the opinion that we shouldn't say anything, but I glad to see our carping had a positive result. And I still thing Vickie is a good value for the money, even without what you are going to add.

Applause, Doug. An excellent statement. Looking foward to what you shall do with the Victoria model. I'll be really impressed if your team can make the existing P4 clothing conform! That really would be worth a hundred bucks! Thanks for messaging we humble Application Addicts. I hope that the Zygote team will eventually become the distributors for Poser 5! I'll bug on about the pricing because I'm a South Walian with short arms and deep pockets. If I drop a penny, it hits me on the back of the head as I bend down to pick it up! Will Zygote ever establish a branch in the UK?

... and this is why I've been a longtime Zygote customer :-)

Yup, going to have to buy now :) Will delete my rhetoric several pages down :) Still, I do think it's evil to sell the basic tex map seperate and maybe even the hair...I mean, the figure should be usable with one purchase. No hair/no tex is kinda unusable. -Darth_Logice

Darth, evil is an extremely strong word, don't you think? Maybe you feel it is 'bad business' or a variety of other things, but 'evil' seems to me to be a word that should be reserved for Hitler and his ilk. Diane B

Bravo. A stand-up response to a thorny issue. I haven't even considered getting Vickie yet, but I just may rethink my decision now that Zygote has made clear it will try hard to address our concerns. Take it on the chin, and learn from it! And hey, thanks for the neat freebies too!

I was glad to hear this too, it's nice to know that those behind the programs and tools we use actually pay attention to our thoughts, opinions, and occasional ranting and raving. :) I do have to agree with Darth about not including the texture though...the $60 for Victoria was all I could afford to spend, and the figure is still useless to me without a texture map. But - I'm patient. ;) SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

Well... I don't take back what I've said. But then while my commentaries have not been positive of Millie they've never been directed against people or Zygote save for against their prices (which I still feel are high. The entire 3D subset of the software industry is oddly priced well above the rest of the software world). I'm glad to know that my criticisms are being heard. And with that known I will continue to try and ensure I keep them civil and topical so they can be of use to those making the decisions on weather or not to change something. I'll look forward to morphs. Both from the community and from Zygote. I may likely buy her after payday rolls around. I'm hoping Zygote sees this so I will address some key concerns as well: On those planned clothes; please keep their price in a range that we will all be able to handle. Poser does tend to be the app that individual users buy. Users who can't afford the absurd prices of things of things like 3DS-Max... We don't tend to have corporate budgets. Also please be sure to at least make sure the initial clothes bundle gives us equivelants to the 'base' clothes found for the P4 woman. From there we can extrapolate new stuff and be more receptive to new stuff from you. (At least I would suspect such.) There are a few areas were I'm not so sure morphs can fix the issues we've raised. Such as the eyes and the genitals. I would like to see something that could address this though at some point. Even if not from Zygote themselves. There are occaisions when one actually uses a nude model for a nude pose... There was something else I'm sure, but it eludes me at present. Anyway; it is good to know that there is at least some entity out there supporting Poser in what manner it can.

(I hate the tone, but I felt it has to be said MODE ON) The texture template download was FREE. Make your own. Learn from the experience. Gain a new skill. I hate to sound snooty, uppity and otherwise unsympathetic, however the template was there. You know full well that textures would eventually show up for FREE, so if you need to save the $$$ you'll just have to be patient(like SnowSultan above) or do it yourself. (I hate the tone, but I felt it has to be said MODE OFF)

I think Zygote deserves to be commended for the comments made in this letter. That is uncommon for businesses today and has caused me to reconsider my initial position not to buy the Victoria figure. Rob

Hey Doug, Thanks for the feedback. All too often businesses refuse to make any kind of public comment in anything other then an official press release. Your action shows that Zygote really does care about their users even if you all are 'money-grubbing capitalists'. ;- ) In my opinion, many folks here don't fully appreciate the full impact of the higher vertex density and reworked groups. I think it's a great figure and I'm certain that, in time, everyone will grow to appreciate the hard work put into creating it. Keep up the good work!

About the texture: the hands! the hands! My compliments to whoever did this. The texture is worth it for the hands alone. We need to go to school on this and include its technique on any subsequent textures. Real skill should be rewarded.

Hi..I'm sure some of you probably don't remember me. It's been so long ;) I must say that I'm tossed on the Vick issue myself. I want to buy it simply because it's "new". But I must admit the hair issue does bug me a bit. What I mean is the hair is designed for Victoria correct? Since Victoria is an Amazon (from what I've seen in renders) she doesn't fit into her lil' sisters clothing. She also doesn't fit into her lil' sisters wigs. Taking that into account, Vickie's lil' sister doesn't fit into Vickie's wig. So it's not like someone would buy it to use on the P4 default woman because it's really only designed for Victoria. That would be like designing a car for "Mini Me" to ride around in and then selling it for the Chicago Bulls to drive to work in. Or selling a Dodge Viper without the motor which is designed only for the Dodge Viper, make sense? It just seems since the hair is really only for her why not just "bundle" the pricing so that it reflects the hair/time/cost your reputable company (and talented designers)put into it and sell it with Vicky? You do this and I bet the whole "texture map" issue will go by the wayside much faster. Heck I'm even contemplating designing a few textures for her and I don't even OWN her yet. Would someone be so kind as to address this issue with me and it's feasibility? (someone from Zygote that is: PANduRUS@yahoo.com) WHICH leads me to my next question - It was mentioned above that the lovely lady was picked up on CD? Would it be possible to have someone tell me how this was done? Do you just CALL directly for this or do you just note this somewhere in the online store? I'd love to show my support of anyone supporting poser and I can't think of a better way to start than by picking up Vicky. ;) BTW - I'm trying REAL hard to be the new and improved PAN (politically correct and what not) so bear with me. Old insanity dies hard. PAN~ federation-21.com

Pan, you can rescale the other hair for Vicky without much problem and vice versa, I would think for Vicky's hair to P4 (tho I haven't tried that yet). PC--YOU!!!!! Ha, ha. Diane B

I see, but what do you all think? Would a bundle package work? I think it would be a cool idea if the pricing is figured into it. This way Zygote gets there money and the rest of us get one complete package. I don't know about some of you but I've tried modelling hair and frankly unless the Mad Max look comes back I'm not posting it! haha... PAN~ federation-21.com

Hmmm.... I wouldn't want to pay the extra cost of a hair bundle simply because I don't like the 'flat' hair that is available for her at present. I assume it was done so they could sell other 'hair sets' later on and not make anyone feel a certain set was the default. Also because as some have mentioned current hair can be rescaled. I would like to see however a 'hair bundle'. Perhaps if they do a clothes bundle like I'm hoping it could also contain a couple very basic hair sets. If I bought Millie myself; it would be without the hair (which looks very unappealing to me) and without the texture (since it's way too expensive and I can make one myself with photoshop and some 'nekkid' pics; which thanks to the internet are in no short supply. :) ). And even if they hadn't given us the free texture map we could get it anyway with UVmapper... :) Which in my experience makes the best texture maps anyway (thickness of the lines, set it to the size you want without pixelization and all...)

Okay, I'm beginning to bend here. I feel myself weakening. Where's my credit card? I guess I'll be buying Vicki now. Gotta go out this morning, but I think I'll be making a visit to Zygote when I get home later. It'll be my birthday present to myself. Melanie

Oh blasphemy!...credit card...calling me...chedder melting...must purchase Vicky...must purchase Millennium Woman...must spend hard earned cash....arrrrrgggggghhhh... (Hops on PAN.WARE Hover-board powered by a neuro-cable tapped into his insane side and takes off at the speed of light towards Zygotes store....NEEEEEWWOOOOSSHHHHH!!!!) PAN~ federation-21.com