I somehow missed this the first time it was posted. Jschoen has a comparison of Victoria/Eve/P4 Nude Fem on this site: http://www.castroonline.com/temptrash/compare/frame1.html Victoria does have the huge advantage of higher polygon count, which will be very useful. However, to me, just looking at the images, Eve looks better in almost every shot than Victoria or the default P4. I want to say something cruel about Victoria, but I'll restrain myself. I just do not like her look at all, and it's going to require A LOT of morphs to overcome her many faults. I take exception with the idea that her look is more "realistic" as far as body type and face. She definitely isn't the artificial ideal that the P4/ Eve supports, but that doesn't mean more realistic. To me, she doesn't look quite "human". Many of her features are to harsh, facial and body shape, to be "average human female". Proportions seems wrong. She is, in many ways, the antithesis of the P4 Nude Fem. She is just as skewed from centerline "average" as the P4 woman, just in the opposite direction. I was very happy to see Zygote respond to the lack of individuating morphs by offering to make them available for free. I thought all day at work whether I would buy her, and decided yes. I went to the site, looked at their sample pictures, and I just couldn't do it. I decided to look back through the posts here, and was led to look into other options. I like Eve a lot, I like that the P4 Nude Fem face morphs work for her, and there are some morphs available for her body, but not enough for my purposes. I think I will use Eve for characters I can make with her, and stick to the default P4 for characters I can't do otherwise. There is little in Victoria that I would use as is. The arms and hands are excellent, but I would need morphs to change every other part of her for her to be of use. Allie stated elsewhere that for her (paraphrasing), paying the higher, non-promotianal price AFTER enough morph targets are avalable would be worth it, because right now, it isn't clear that Victoria will ever be useful for her. I agree. I know the potential is there, with the higher poly count, etc... But for me, SO MUCH needs to be altered in her appearance for her to be useful to me that I can't buy Victoria just based on potential. ::sigh:: This whole thing has been way stressful. I'll probably need a day to clear my head before getting back to work with the P4 Nude Fem, and maybe Eve. I have other stuff for my Gwen character, and I really want to make a character of Cynthia Smiith from Stephen King's novel "Desperation". There is a lot in that book that I would like to render as art. :-) Oh well. To Zygote, I may buy Victoria in the future when enough morphs come out to overcome her unfortunate looks and body type. I would definitely buy a new model that had looks and body closer to the P4 Nude Fem, with the higher polys, as long as you included the P4 Nude Fem range of morphs from the start. Adding genitalia aren't very important for me, but there is enough demand that it probably should be included in future characters. There is still a niche in the market for another nude female figure, even before you consider a Millennium Man. For many of us, Victoria is not at all what we were waiting for. :-( BTW, I would like to see even higher poly counts, I have plants in a scene I rendered recently with four times the polys of Victoria. :-) Fiontar

Fiontar, I hate you've been stressing over this character and that shouldn't be... Lots of people have characters they've bought that I don't have but that makes for a better variety in this community..From your earlier post it appeared you had your mind made up a from the beginning... Perhaps one of the reasons Vicky doesn't resemble P4NW is for the reason people probably wouldn't had purchased her saying she was just like the default ... You'd probably hear, why should they buy a Character they already have even with the better polys when they have oodles of morphs already for the default to do whatever Vicky can do yadda, yadda, yadda...Why couldn't Zygote make a character different than what I already own, blah, blah, blah.. You know that would have happened... Zygote perhaps wanted a totally new looking character in addition to our P3NW, and P4NW, (who look very much alike btw).. In fact I think P4NW is only a reworked over P3NW but no one complains because she came with Poser 4... I think we need to look at Vicky as different character and not a replacement .. She's good for certain images and usage, really a quality model but she may not be for everyone.. Some will use her more than others and visa versa... Someone said somewhere (can't remember) why buy a character just so you won't have to do tweaking in PS when you have to bring your images in PS anyway.. Well, I'm here to say she still needs tweaking in PS too, least for me... Now someone will probably say, well why should I buy her if I still have to tweak her in PS... LOL... UGH!...And it goes on and on and on and ON...What I'm getting at as long as she cost money there is gonna be a debate on this.. For most it seems to be the money.. Well, you can find a lot of things wrong with something when you don't want to hand out cash, which is cool and the way it should be but If she had been free I doubt there would have been all this hoopla.. For you, just sounds like she's not the babe your interested in.. Nothing wrong with that... Don't sweat it and save your money... Maybe in the future Zygote may put out a character, more to your liking... Zygote are the ones who made our default babes in Poser remember .. I think some people forget... ~Cindy

Well said Cindy, well said. Fiontar (and this next statement is probably going to get me keelhauled and tried for treason) it's not worth getting stressed out over a hobby. If you're happy with the P4NF/Eve figures and don't see any need for Victoria - don't get it. Or, if you think $60 is too much for a figure that you consider flawed - don't get it. I happen to like the Victoria figure (after working with it for a while) although I wish the face had been a little more "fashion-model" and it had come with the same morphs as P4NF. Just remember - nobody's saying you've got to buy Victoria. If she's not your "cup of tea", that's absolutely fine. Paul

You said what I wanted to say but a lot less words Paul... lol Sorry, I'm long winded especially when I get up with the chickens.. What I don't want to see is people being swayed by popular opinion, be it good or bad, without the real facts (since this seems to be such an important thing to some)... I had an ex-boyfriend once talk me out of buying the car I wanted.. I was making more money than him at the time and could afford to buy the car I wanted... He told me the car was this and that, all the negatives... He even had his friends tell me the car wasn't worth poop and they didn't even own this particular car.. Well, 6 months down the road after I bought another model car, my ex-boyfriend bought the very car he talked me out of!.. >=( He got a better paying job so he could afford it then.. But he didn't want me to have something he couldn't afford .. I've learned my lesson and I'm too independent minded now.. I bought Vickie when she first came out but only cause there was a 30 day back guarantee ... I wanted to do my own testing, and not take other's word for it.. I knew I could send her back if she didn't meet my needs.. Fortunately she has ...I've learned sometimes people will talk you out of something only because they don't want you to have what they can't afford, but would get it themselves if they could, which is pretty crappie in my opinion... I believe Jschoen gave a fair assessment of Vicky with the other two models and Fionter if your decision was based on what you have seen and heard from the owners of this model then that's great..That's the only way to buy if your undecided or frugal with your moola..=) I think a lot of people who have purchased Vicky have been honest about their opinions of her, negative and positive... I'm also glad for the non owers speaking their peice too on why their considering not buying this model.. It helps for the undecided, but for some to totally slam this model in a very hateful way (for whatever goofy reason), and not owning her makes me very suspicious... ~Cindy

God, Cindy, don't tell us if you go to sleep with the fowl, too. --ratta

No silly fool... LOL =) I go to bed with the cows and get up with the chickens... hehe

Oh. You moo. --ratta

Only when I'm with the utter heifers.. >=)

Fiontar, I am like you. The sight of Millie straight from the box (so to speak) turns my stomach. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and my eyes just ain't beholding. But, she does have potential due to the strong show of support she has gotten from this Forum. In addition, Zygote's letter posted here in another thread speaks well of them. So, despite the fact that I think she is an ugly looking gal, I bought her. (But haven't even unzipped her yet, cause I still waiting for more face morphs ha! LOL) I now believe that Millie will allow for many more new and exciting posing and morphing possiblities, and that there will soon be enough morphs and other creative things done with her that any cons will be greatly outweighed by the pros. She will be worth having and using. A radical change from my earlier position. My thanks to those in this Forum who argued valently on Millie's behalf and convinced me to give her a chance. Rob

Thanks for all the comments. :-) I slept on it, and still am not going to buy her, for now. I'm ticked that when/if there are enough morphs of the right kind to make her useful to me, I'll likely have to spend $100 for her rather than $60. However, at this point, I'd rather wait and pay more, than pay $60 and never use her. We've all become used to the look of the P3 and P4 models as the "default". If we don't like the default, we can adjust her to the look we want. For my Gwen character, there are a lot of morphs used, but many are just slight adjustments for fine tuning. Victoria is a very distinct look, nothing generic or default. If you want to convert your own P4 characters to the Victoria model, for the higher poly count and greater expressiveness, it's now much more complicated than just duplicating the morphs you used before. You have to get morphs that will "undo" 80% of Victoria's "distinctiveness", then morph her into something close to what you had before. I guess if Victoria as is, is closer to the look you've been wanting for your characters, she is a plus. For people who don't bother with using custom MTs, she isn't very generic or "pleasing on the eye". For character creators, she represents A LOT of extra work. I would buy, instantly, another figure from Zygote that had the high polys and facial expression morphs of Victoria, the fixed joints, etc... with the P4 Nude Fem default morphs included, that looked almost exactly like the P3 and P4 figures. Since Cindy brought up cars :-) I liken Victoria to this: What if Mitsubishi introduced the 2001 Eclipse. It had greater horsepower, better milage, improved anti-lock brakes and suspension. It integrated voice web and navigation center at hardly any premium. In every way was better technology, BUT they changed the design so it now resembled a '79 Ford Pinto? To me, that's what Zygote did here... :-) Fiontar

Fiontar - Very, very well said! The biggest problem with having a figure that is only useable with all those morphs is that nothing is every going to fit correctly, unless we all use the same morphs, with the same settings. I don't think anyone has though.