I just received an email from someone I will not mention ( I never heard of the person), who questioned why I would spend time and effort to make improvements on Victoria, especially since she costs $60 and, in the opinion of the writer, few people would buy her anyway. What do the folks here think? Should we really stop making morphs and textures and poses for her because she is essentially a niche model?

I've seen enough renders with her to think Victoria is more than a niche model, so, even though I do not have her and tend to gloss over the discussions around poor "millie" I think it is worthwhile to make morphs, etc. for her. Especially if you learn things that can later be applied to more "mainstream" models!

Well I'm not quitting because a vocal few have problems with her. Her geometry and new mapping are just plain awsome and weill help jet Poser into never seen before realms of photo-realism. -Trav

Since I started out very anti-Millie and have since decided to give her a chance, problem child or not. So I thought I'd pipe in and offer my 0.2 cents worth of observation. Prior to picking up Poser last June, I had no art, modeling or 3D experience. But I wanted to learn to do these kind of things, and Poser seemed like a good place to start. The human models were not that bad but the hair - oh my my that horrible plastic looking hair. Also, at that time, most of the renders I had seen of Posset and BoyDork had that plastic look about them. But then a kind of magic happened. Folks like Traveler, Allerleirauh, Paul Hafeli, and many many others, went to work on fixing and improving these problem areas. Now it is not uncommon to see images of the Possete (and even on lesser occasion the Dork) looking picture perfect real. Even more remarkable, somehow this ability (and knowledge) was passed on to others - even hacks like me - who manage from time to time to duplicate the effect and turn out an image not half bad. For all her flaws - and in spite of my complains with her - I bought Vickie because I believe that one way or another the talent folks here would make her "be" whatever it is that we need her to "be" for the sake of art. Rob

People do what they want to do. If they want to make Vickie stuff, they make Vickie stuff. Anyway there is already more enhancements/clothes/hair etc. for Posette than i can use in a lifetime. /Ohman

With the morphs recently did by Traveler,rtamesis,and others( thanks everyone) ,Millie is pretty nice .No reason to see again a ugly face like the ones we have seen last weekend.With the new hair ,this a nice original caracter ,,but it is like 10 photographers making a photo according the same model,may be one will have a excellent shot,4 making a good one,3 a reasonnable ones,the rest just for the garbage

I think it's fine for people to make morphs etc for Victoria. As long as there is still plenty of stuff for people who don't have her. If everything started going Victoria and people who don't have her can't use them then I can understand people getting a bit annoyed about it.

Ok out of the shadows,Here's my two cents..I don't have vicki and don't know if I'll be able to afford her anytime soon,BUT for all the talented people who make the morphs,clothes ,hair and other enhancements of her ..Keep at it I have been watching the improvements from back here in the shadows and have seen wonderous work in just the little time she's been out.Even if I never can afford her,there's people who can and deserve to have the great talent that is out there making things for them and maybe somewhere along the lines we might benefit from a few tricks that pop up here and there.So it's a bit long winded but thats my two cents.Render on!!! ~ghjostboat~

I don't own the Vickster and don't intend to shell out the 60 clams--it's golfing weather, after all--but if y'all are having fun playing with her, then you should go for it. I'll personally be glad when Vickiemania dies down a bit, though--I'm getting tired of hearing about her--like that poor Cuban kid; sometimes I wish we'd send her back where she came from and get on with our lives.

<> My 2 coppers: Not a waste of time. Watch the galleys, if you don't believe me. At the forfront of the debate are two main issues. Cost and and the butt-ugly factor. As Trav has stated, the ugly complaint doesn't hold water anymore. With all the neat-o mophs he and others are providing (for free), Vicky users should be kissing the ground they walk on. However, Vicky's cost is something we can't really do anything about. People are acustomed to finding good Poser stuff for free. Eve, being a good example. They can't rationalize spending that kinda dough. I would make a plea to Zygote to drop her price in about a month or so. Don't raise her to $100 for Bog's sake! If they dropped her to, say $30 bucks after demand tappers off, then they could probably clean up quickly. $30 buck is something that the casual user should be able to swallow for such an awsome model. Personally, I would not care if her price went down, after shelling out the $60. Hell, I'd forfeit $30 just to see more general exceptance in the comunity. -Nik <>

1-It's your life so as long as you're not hurting anyone you should do what you please. 2- I doubt that people will stop creating non-vicki work but even if they did, there is already more than enough available to keep people busy a lonnnng time. BTW, I'm glad to see all the morphs but I also like Vicki's appearance right out of the box. She has a much more striking and sophisticated facial demeanor that all the sex-kitten teeny bppoers we're used to seeing in Poser. Frankly, I'd love to see some age wrinkles for Vicki- you know, laugh lines around the eyes and corners of the mouth, etc. But then I've always preferred older women, even in my teens.

I think Millie is great, as far as mobility goes, I'm Hoping with morphs and textures I can make her into the charecter I want. Thanks to all of you out there who have created all the wonderful stuff that makes poser so much more fun. JSH

Is it possible to make use of all those extra polys and morph her into something close to the P4 Nude Fem in looks and proportions? If so, that's my request. I will buy her then, and won't have to get depressed if all the mod makers start focusing just on Victoria :-) Very seriously though, if you morph her to the P4 posette's size and proportions, won't that make the clothing issue easier to deal with for now? It would close the gap between the "two camps" on the issue of Victoria. If this could be done, and then there was some balance in creating a.) morphs for the "Victoria" 40ish woman look and b.) morphs to duplicate looks character creators can do now with the P4, the Poser world would be a happier place! Please, please, please?!?!?

Hi Folks! The recent developments at MetaC should remind us that 3D manufacturers are in the business to make money. Vicki's price is a bit steep, particularly if you've already sunk money into other Zygote figures like NYW and Tess (remember her?), but if you attach a $5 (American) charge to every free item Zygote has posted since their weekly giveaway began and do the math, her cost is reasonable. As for her looks--refer to the Vicki's Dark Secret post. It's a satirical take on the Vicki thing that sadly mirrors the deadly extremes too many young women approach in their quest to be as beautiful as the average glamour magazine model. Posette ain't real folks--even in real life. Peter (Dr Zik)

Allie, I couldn't have said half as good if I tried. Ditto, ditto, ditto! Fiontar, funny you should mention it. I have been trying to resize and morph my Millie Victoria (first and last name I think) to look like Posette. Not doing very well, but then I have never tried reshaping before and got to get the knack down first. Would also like to see if I can resize and morph Posette to look like Millie. Why? Point of comparison to see if there is any validity in my argument that I think the P4 body style is more universal and lends itself better to varying shapes than Millies. May just be blowing hot air, so I will try and see. (Maybe someone else should try this as well.) Rob

People are clamoring for a new model! We've got it, if we are that talented we can do the adjustments ourselves. With Poser being dumped really by Metacreations, new stuff is to be sought after. Anything new always takes a bashing, and gets kudos all at the same time. And in all honesty the joy of renderosity is being involved, and on the cutting edge. She's a good model. And I'll tell ya, modelling humans is a bitch and a half. Grab em well ya can, because until someone does something else, this will be it.

Hi Folks! Allie, I just visited the Members Gallery (maybe I should post a pic of myself), and yes, compared to many of the members, Vicki does look sorta homely. Fortunately she's getting some good makeovers from some of our most talented tweakers as well as Zygote. I think that's good--because when I want a figure that doesn't look as stunning as Posette and her sisters but not as cartoony as Tess, Vicki in her native state will do fine--especially once she gets a wardrobe. I'm glad we do agree that there is a downside to modern society's preoccupation with stylized beauty. BTW--has anyone explored the potential of Vicki (I like her name without the e) as a middle-aged Posette? The elderly female provided on the Zygote CD is too much of a caricature. Maybe the unembellished Vicki can find a niche as a more realistic portrait of a mature woman. Peter (Dr Zik)