Thanks for that kbade.... though you're right, nothing very specific, yet. I'll be keeping my eyes open for further information. I really haven't had many problems with P5 myself, the interface is a little more intimidating than P4, but the materials room is great! Personally, I remain optimistic that CL gets everything worked out. If not, well then, there will always be alternatives.

"and CL is too busy fixing bugs to be expected to help with the application of new DAZ stuff). Sigh,... it just ain't no fun anymore. Almost enough to make me take up an entirely new hobby. Seriously. I only have so much money and free time, ya' know" Terry Mitchell said alot, here. First off, NO....if cl is so busy fixing bugs...foreseeable bugs, from the early on beta testing....they should have hired someone to handle customer problems...a team...a big team. poser5 promised that you could use the add ons on the market. if you can't demand your money back. that simple. don't give them that benefit of the doubt. they released a program, after alot of "hype" that does not live up to its promises. period. for those of you where it crashes consistently, or won't render....get your money back before the company folds, altogether. inherent in any contract law, there is a warranty that what you bought MUST do what it is supposed to do...warranty of useability...or the contract is null and void. so, if it don't work for you...it crashes your system, vicki and mike won't render in it...prepare a written statement to that effect. send it registered mail to cl...asking for a refund. keep records of this. and, keep those dreams alive....maybe, daz will come out with a really cool alternative. their stuff has been quality, so far. and, unlike cl...their customer service is top notch.

If it's just a rendering tool, then I'm not going to spend money on it. I would consider it, on the other hand, if it is all the things that P5 is not yet, that is: - a tool similar to face room, that works with the Millennium figures; - a more logical setup of libraries (where hair does end up in "hair" only, and not also in "figures" and "props" too, where MAT/MOR poses (settings would be a better term) are separate from body poses; - interfaceability right-out-of-the-box with Vue d'Esprit, Bryce, and other common software. For both stills and animations; - possibility to create and edit UV templates within the program (perhaps licensing UVMapper Pro from Steve Cox?) - a built-in mesh editor that is simple but more effective than magnets (again, what about licensing Extreme Morph form Konan?) There would be more but I stop here. Besides, I would appreciate if DAZ could consider a competitive upgrade price for people who purchased Poser 5 already. I don't think I would be able to afford and justify the expense of a second Poser-like program if DAZ does not take into consideration that i have already invested in Poser 5. Hope that DAZ shall want to help with it, to make the burden of the expense some lighter for those who already spent abundant money for P5. Orio

Oh my f****ing God! Look at all the Daz supporters coming out the woodwork! Was I just dreaming, or was it only a few months ago EVERYONE was ready to tie Dan Farr up and gut him due to the issue with the morph targets for the Millennium figures. Where were all of you then? My, what short memories all of you have, especially the merchants who were screaming bloody hell. This is the saddest "little" group of people, swaying every which way that the wind blows. All of you are ranting and raving with INCOMPLETE information. I challenge ANY of you to prove me otherwise. Just FYI, it is only a program. There are a lot more serious things going on in the world right now, in case you have not noticed. - Ray

Maybe so, but this IS the Poser forum... hence, the Poser discussion !

I don't know what you're talking about Ray, I for one haven't been swaying whichever way the wind blows. As nice as the CL staff are, I was hoping Adobe would have bought Poser when Metacreations sold it off, and haven't changed my stance since then. I had high hopes for P5 like the rest of us, and now that we've seen it, you can't blame us for now having high hopes for whatever DAZ comes up with. There are indeed more important things in the world right now, you're right...but like ming says, this isn't really the place to talk about them. ;) SnowS

"Oh my f****ing God! Look at all the Daz supporters coming out the woodwork! Was I just dreaming, or was it only a few months ago EVERYONE was ready to tie Dan Farr up and gut him due to the issue with the morph targets for the Millennium figures. " Oh hell... I'm looking forward to the unparalleled opprotunity to watch both CuriousLabs AND Daz3D shoot themselves in the feet, personally. Should be absolutely priceless, and we all have ringside seats. ;]

DAZ and CL owe thier existance to this community. If this community didn't exist then bothe would just be names on the long list of software history. Since I don't have a perminent computer(an incomplete collection of part at this time). I'm hoping DAZ creats character software that is installable without a modem call that requires e-mail beyond third time limit. Please DAZ. Please please ohhhhhhh pleeeease... :)

Dangle-dangle. Who wants a banana?

"Oh my f****ing ...! Look at all the Daz supporters coming out the woodwork! Was I just dreaming, or was it only a few months ago EVERYONE was ready to tie Dan Farr up and gut him due to the issue with the morph targets for the Millennium figures. Where were all of you then? My, what short memories all of you have, especially the merchants who were screaming bloody hell. This is the saddest "little" group of people, swaying every which way that the wind blows. All of you are ranting and raving with INCOMPLETE information. I challenge ANY of you to prove me otherwise. " 1. That was a most henious way to take the Lord's name in vain (couldn't even repeat it, had to dot it out), setting it next to a 4 letter word in such a manner. Yech, what a level of offence that was. I just shudder at it. 2. Daz listened to those complaints made a while back and did everything they could to resolve it, going to great lengths. Why would they not earn support by doing so? Maybe CL can do the same by making things right, but most are still waiting for that outcome. 3. INCOMPLETE information is true, but it's all we've got and what we do have is cause for interest and/or concern. We have enough information to form opinions and impressions and it's best to express them and see if we can shake any more facts loose in the process. I think your stated assessment is an example of INCOMPLETE information, just grouping everyone in this thread together like that and mentioning no point made in this thread specifically. 4. "saddest 'little' group of people" What makes you special that you can look down? Your very tone suggests otherwise. Sorry to everyone else, if this post seems outside my usual nature, but the first couple words out of his/her fingertips were enough to tick me off.

Being a mac user I don't have Poser5 so I can only look at other's pictures of Judy and Don for reference. I'm not that impressed with Judy's looks, but I wonder if perhaps CL "neglected" Judy just abit, knowing that DAZ has Vicky3 in the works which will surely be Poser5 compatible.

Vicky3 in the works which will surely be Poser5 compatible Check Daz's site, check this forum, read some of the posts. Vickie 3 will not be poser 5 compatible. Daz are not supporting Poser 5 nor will they ever support Poser 5 because of legal reasons until those legal reasons are addressed by Curious Labs. That information is freely available on two forums and the Daz website including a couple of posts by Dan Farr in this forum confirming it.

By the way (from earlier in the thread), MetaCreations started with Poser 3. I started with Poser 2 which was owned by Fractal Designs. I believe they also produced Poser 1, but I don't know. It wasn't until Poser 3 when MC used Zygote models that were included in the program. I never had Poser 1 because I had not heard of it prior to version 2. If anyone thinks Poser 5 is bad, they should have started with 1 or 2. Poser 2 was a lot of fun, but nowhere near as useful as the program is today. Also, we only have Stephanie 1 so there would have to be a Stephanie 2 before a 3. Stephanie came out after Vicky 2 and Mike 2 (in March of this year).

Poser 2, by Fractal Designs meshes were done by Viewpoint, who the staff of Zygote worked for at the time. Once the staff split off from Viewpoint they were entitled the library that they had created to form Zygote and released advance copies of those meshes in MetaCreation's Poser 3 and 4. Then in order to focus directly on future versions of Poser and expand that market place, Chad, Dan and Chris (and others) split off from Zygote and formed DAZ. Obviously, that hope was greatly diminished when they were not chosen to work on Poser 5. Anyhow, that is how it came about. :o) Jack

In regards to Poser 5 compatibility, I downloaded Daz's freebies the last 2 weeks. The installer gave me the option of either installing them to the P4 or P5 runtime. I choose P5. I loaded the free ghost and it worked fine. Although Daz isn't making things that are supposed to work with P5's new features (read lack of P5 support), I haven't heard of anyone having any trouble with using any Daz's stuff with P5 other than transmaps on fairy wings and some python scripts. I haven't heard of any figure incompatibilities. Should I only install anything new from Daz in P4? It's clear. Some things will work in P5, some won't. If they don't work in P5 I'll delete them to the library and install them into P4 and use em there. Looks like I will never be able to uninstall P4 no matter how good 5 gets. If Vicky 3 won't work in P5 at all, who is likely to buy her? Only the firefly render engine can really do justice to her beauty. Perhaps a Daz person can answer this one.

Vickie 3, like Vickie 1 and 2 will work in Poser 5 as they do in Poser 4, they're not compatible with certain aspects of Poser 5 and they won't be - aspects such as the face room etc, though I'm reliably informed that the Putty tool works on Vickie and Mike just fine. So you will be able to use Vickie 3 in Poser 5 just not in all of the rooms with all of the options and Daz won't be able to support specific poser 5 problems - at least initially anyway.

Ah, another long-winded, no-joy thread. So here comes my cut-and-paste reply. I believe CL will eventually get P5 running as advertized, and we'll all be better off for having it's advanced capabilities. But if it continues to be more work than fun to utilize DAZ (or, out of fairness to DAZ, any other third party) products in P5 without first having to spend a no-fun amount of time tweaking them (with little to no support from the product's vendor - DAZ or otherwise), then my passion for Poser as a fun hobby will surely die off, and CL, DAZ and any other vendor for Poser-related products will lose another customer as my hard-earned dollars go elsewhere and my sparse free time is devoted to things that bring more joy and less grief. Period. Signing off...

Terry, be careful. One member has already been threatened with banning for doing precisely that. The moderators here apparently call it "tagging". Not moaning at you, just a heads up incase someone with an itchy trigger finger wanders by.

What is tagging ?!

Yeah, what the heck is it and how does it apply to my thread?

It applies (I think) because you've pasted the same comment into a couple of different threads. What it means? There's a long thread in the Forum News/Team Contact forum. But while sort of explained it's not really defined. As far as I can tell, it's to do with hitting multiple threads posting the same thing or posting the same something likely to cause an argument in multiple threads. Not sure how evenly this new rule definition will be enforced though. :) Just thought I'd let you know that new rules are being invented and that you "might" be getting into it's territory. :)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=925954&Reply=926604#60

According to Crescent, one of the moderators: Trolling is doing things like going through people's galleries and harassing them or posting lots of threads emotionally provocative threads. (I'm not talking Nekkid Vic threads.) It's a first strike sort of deal. Tagging is putting irrelevant, inflamatory remarks in the middle or end of already existing threads. If I went through all the OT threads, regardless of content and posted, "Oh, and Spike sucks!" that would be tagging. (Sorry, Spike, you made for an easy target!) ;-) Personally, I see Trolling as Stalking, while Tagging is like grafitti'ing. Again, just my opinion. I'm not speaking for any one else here on this one. I've been running around, getting stuff done for another forum or I would have wandered in and started opinionating sooner. ************** However, trolling and tagging seem to be exchanged freely as terms. There was a long thread on this subject. I don't know how it applies to your thread....some people are using it to suggest anyone who speaks negatively about Curious Labs is tagged but the moderators have denied that as an idea. I'm not a moderator. I haven't a clue.

Interesting. I thought by copying my post I was efficiently communicating a ligitimate, on-topic response to the three threads in the sincere, personal manner that these threads affected me - i.e., quickly tiring of the DAZ-CL P5 rift (a common theme in the those the threads), and felling a bit victimized by it's consequences as a consumer having spent so much of my spare money and free time on Poser and related products who sadly is now starting to have less fun with it than I use to. But now this discussion of "tagging" is getting OT to this thread, so I'll stop. (But thanks for the insight on "tagging.")

Yep, I'd agree with you Terry, you are responding with your perfectly legitimate comments, what I was concerned about was not so much the comments themselves but the cut/paste in several threads of the "same" comments, hence why I thought it worth mentioning. Wierd things have been happening lately and well... better safe than sorry I guess. :) Thanks for the link Dialyn, I couldn't load that forum to grab it, for some reason.