First a 'clone' disclaimer: I usually post at Renderosity with my 'MadYuri' nick, but this is a store issue and until recently I used to buy here under my old username 'mi-scha'.

Some days ago I purchased some items from the RMP and I found some things amiss. This is no big deal for me, because I know how to edit my Poser files. But I did pay for them and I demand working products for my money.

Here is a list of errors and annoyances I encounter quite often in products from the RMP:

1. the .obj file is alongside the .cr2 in a library folder. This guarantees that this item will not work with a non-english Poser version or if you rename the the folder names.

2. no .rsr thumbnails. Yep, Poser 4 users are inferior, a "shrugging guy" thumbnail is good enough for them. :P

3. .jpg files are referenced as bump maps in the .cr2. I'm sure Poser 4 users love this. :P

4. Poser files with with a hard coded path like "G:/Inferior Stuff/Waste/dreadful.jpg"

5. common, non-distinctive file names like 'lashes.jpg'. I have numerous files with the same name, if the path in the Poser file is not correct then the wrong texture will get loaded.

6. The nonsense to put a '!' or '+' in front of library folders. This is just so annoying.

I'm fed up to the back teeth! I don't have such problems at any other Poser store I buy from.
Vendors do make mistakes, nobody is perfect, I understand that. But the store testers should have caught those errors.

was the product noted as a poser pro pack item? i have a couple that are poser pro pack things but are useable in poser 4, theres just no rsr thumbnails. adding the item to the scene in poser 4 and then adding it back to the libarary creates a thumb nail and most poser 4 people who buy poser pro pack items don't seem to mind that, that might be why that passed ;) just a thought. there is a lashes.jpg that came with one of the vicki packages, i forget which one though (there's serval mapped addons for the first vicki). That may be why the lashes.jpg thing doesn't always show as a problem, the tester having this file from a previous purchase. just another thought. Alot of the older poser files have hard coded paths, i've noticed that myself, some of the merchants don't even come to rosity any more. if bump maps are refrenced as jpg's then its a Poser Pro Pack item, and should of been noted as so. ;) The problem for someone using pro pack, its not the easiest thing to be able to install pro pack seprate from poser 4, so they can test it for both, it is possible, but isn't a easy task, and it does also lead to alot of duplicate files. Alot of merchants don't like having two copies of poser on there system because of that, which makes it so there making the item poser pro pack specific. Just some thoughts ;) not trying to say anythin' good or bad bout any of this just thoughts. A Merchant could do like i did with my most recent pack, the armor of ancients, and include a zip file in there that contains poser 4 files they can unzip over the top of the poser pro pack items.

Hi mi-Scha, Would you please send me the names of the products that you are having problems with. I will have them checked out right away. Thanks, Clint

Nope, it was advised for Poser 4.03. And it wasn't one item, but several from different vendors. I hope you don't get the impression that I want to bash the vendors. Quality Control is not the task of the vendor, someone else has to do it. If you create something, it is to easy to overlook a fault. It is the job of the store testers to audit the items.

Hi Clint, I could send you a list with those products, but you can just as well look into my 'Purchase History'. I used to buy every two weeks here, but lately I'm not satisfied with some of my purchases. Maybe my standards are rising.

mi-scha, You mean to tell me that all the items in your Purchase History have these problems? I have a hard time understanding this since all products go through a very strict testing program. If they are very old products you might see some of these problems. These would be products that were introduced into the MarketPlace when it first started and we didnt have the same guidelines that we do now. Anyway - If you can provide me with a few names or a list of all the products you are experiencing the problems with I would greatly appreciate it so I can look into them. Thanks, Clint

nope didn't get that idea ;) was just giving some possible reasons ;)

I've bought from the MP fairly often, and I can verify these problems occur with some frequency. I sent an IM to the author of one some time back, and a note to the MP (It's been nearly a year, so I can't recall if it was via a post or an IM/Email) that OBJ files and textures into library folders, and having absolute paths in CR2s & PP2's all the way up to the C: root caused a lot of problems, and wasted quite a bit of my time fixing. Possibly my tone was a bit snippy or something, because all I got in response was a "sorry you didn't like my product" from the merchant, and a brief "We'll review the product to verify it meets MP submission guidelines" from someone at the MP. I just got into the habit of "blank-installing" all new products & downloads into a dummy Poser4 folder and manually reviewing each product before copying over into the real runtime folders. I had some free time this week, to play with Poser, and wanted to install my backlog of purchases and a few freestuff downloads before I got started - I hadn't realized my "!Hold & Install ASAP!!!" folder had over 140 downloads in it (I've been busy moving for 2 months) this included about 20% freebies, premiums, and free updates to be installed. Took me 3 evenings to install, and I'm still not done, as I need to cull my Pose folder down under 245 folders again (everyone seems to include MAT files, nowadays) from 314. I didn't keep notes as to which downloads had these problems, but I remember my Renderosity Marketplace Downloads had nearly as many products requiring editing as my freestuff files (I don't complain about free stuff, seems ungrateful....:-). More specifically, I'd say 4-6 from the MP (bought within last 2 months)were "problem" installs. This included not only OBJ files in Prop or character folders and textures in library or even geometry folders, but also library folders misspelled (Characters instead of Character) is one I see fairly often) and the textures folder located under libraries. I've been assuming the file placements and folder structures weren't relevant to the MP testers, or they made clean Poser installs to test with, and uninstalled/scrubbed them regularly so they didn't notice the tediously protracted loading times while Poser searched thru a large installation for textures. I'm sorry I don't have a list of problem products at hand, but I'd hate to post it here anyway, as some are from talented merchants, and are otherwise terrific products in every way. ClintH, if you'd like, I could start such a list, and IM it to you when I run into these problems, or go thru my archived downloads to pick out a couple (probably take me a couple days or a week, as my time is pretty short just now). 2 from some time ago, that I do recall having problems with were products 6597 and 6444 (if the numbers in the downloads mean anything) I'll IM the product names if you prefer. Cheers!

Aww, back to my normal nick...

ClintH > mi-scha, You mean to tell me that all the items in your Purchase History have these problems?...If you can provide me with a few names or a list of all the products...

No Clint, no all items have a problem. I will send you a email with some examples.

ClintH > I have a hard time understanding this since all products go through a very strict testing program.

Sorry, I can't believe that. If that were the case I wouldn't have those problems.

ClintH > If they are very old products you might see some of these problems.
These would be products that were introduced into the MarketPlace when it first started and we didnt have the same guidelines that we do now.

Actually it is getting worse, the newer products have those problems.

The items itself are very good, great meshes, excellent textures and so on. Its just that there a some small problems which lessen the overall impression. I can correct those issures myself, some file-moving and cr2-editing and everything is fine. But damn, its too much of a bother. ;P

Hi MadYuri, Thanks for the response - I will keep an eye out for your mail. Clint

I did send it some hours ago (to ClintH@Render... ).

Cool - Havent hit the E-Mails yet...Heading there in a few. :) Clint

hi, since you are at it, maybe i can add some more glitches in quality control. i recently purchased "sword maidens", almost all that was there ;), and in some items from the package, not all, i see hardcoded texture paths (c:/metacreation... !). if it is in one or two i wouldn't bother you, but the package contains 20-30 separate items and it's a royal pain to bring the paths back to normal. i emailed the creator about an eventual update, since the items are virtually unusable, but haven't got any response yet. so maybe you could stirr them :)

alerks, I will look into it. Clint

and?

Err Clint, ten days ago I send you a list of defective products. Are there any updates coming for those producs?
I don't need updates but maybe some other purchasers are not capable of CR2 editing.
BTW I did go through my past purchases and found some more shortcomings.

"1. the .obj file is alongside the .cr2 in a library folder. This guarantees that this item will not work with a non-english Poser version or if you rename the the folder names."

This was created in the Pro Pack or Poser 5 and that's how both of those apps save new figures - OBJ and CR2 in the same folder.

"2. no .rsr thumbnails. Yep, Poser 4 users are inferior, a "shrugging guy" thumbnail is good enough for them. :P"

Again, the newer version of Poser do not use or create RSR's.

"3. .jpg files are referenced as bump maps in the .cr2. I'm sure Poser 4 users love this. :P"

Poser Pro Pack and Poser 5 no longer use the .BUM format and will accept the JPEG's as they are.

"4. Poser files with with a hard coded path like "G:/Inferior Stuff/Waste/dreadful.jpg""

As long as the textures are located under the Runtime folder Poser will find them no matter what the path.

"5. common, non-distinctive file names like 'lashes.jpg'. I have numerous files with the same name, if the path in the Poser file is not correct then the wrong texture will get loaded."

This is up to the merchant to decide.

"6. The nonsense to put a '!' or '+' in front of library folders. This is just so annoying."

Also a merchant's decision.

Jeff, I'm confused by your post, just listing the reasons for the deficiencies you leave in products doesn't really address the actual problem. A lot of products are useless to, or cause unnecessary trouble for, some of your customers. If marketplace admissions standards don't require vendors to take a few extra minutes and make their submissions into fully compatible products, then the Marketplace needs to review and revise admissions standards. Upside to this - fewer customer complaints and problems, more happy customers feeling they can make purchases in confidence. Downside - a couple more things to be checked and verified during market beta-testing, and a few more items returned for additional work the first time or two vendors submit, until they become accustomed to finishing their products properly. The fact remains; 1) OBJ files should be in Geometries folders. 2) Textures should be in Textures folders. 3) All paths to these files should be accurate and relative to Runtime, not the root. 4) Textures and thumbnails should be available in duplicate formats, either in P4/PP dual zips within the original download, or as additional downloads from vendors websites. No offense intended Jeff - I like the marketplace here. I've bought literally HUNDREDS of products here. I've appreciated the hard work the MP administration has always put into resolving individual problems, but this response is pretty much useless.

LG,

There are no "deficiencies", these are Pro Pack created items and that's how it works.

MadYuri is a pro pack user as well, so I don't see the point.

If you would like merchants to support Poser 4.03 more please contact them and let them know what you want.

-Jeff

Yep, ProPack and Poser 5 place the .obj in the library folder. This is a bug. If the .obj file is in a library folder the product is not usable in a non-english Poser version.
If you only want english Poser users then please say so, I'm sure the rest of the world doesn't want to force itself on you.

Then don't advertise the product as usable with Poser 4. It is not.

I don't think so.

Merchant's decision. Well, then I have to do a buyers decision.

I do wonder with which justification Renderosity takes the 50% cut. It is the right of a vendor that his product is thoroughly tested. The store tester has to catch such errors and advise the vendor. This is the only way the interests of a vendor are protected. If he knows the faults he can correct them, if he doesn't know them he can only wonder why his stuff doesn't sell...

Please ask Dark_Whisper what he prefers:
a. A failed product which he can improve without ruffle.
b. A public dismemberment of his product in several forums.

You don't do the vendors any good if you shield them from the real world.

You don't do the Renderosity MP any good either. Other commercial Poser sites don't have a quality problem and they gladly take your customers.

JeffH > MadYuri is a pro pack user as well, so I don't see the point. I have a english Poser 3, a german Poser 4, a german Poser ProPack and a english Poser 5 installation on my PC.

"Please ask Dark_Whisper what he prefers:
a. A failed product which he can improve without ruffle.
b. A public dismemberment of his product in several forums."

I think DW prefers that you read the documention. The product you and others from Poser Pros "dismembered" had a morph to correct the problem which was over looked.

Our testers actually know what they are doing and do it very well.

-JH.

JeffH > I think DW prefers that you read the documention.

I have. Please show me the relevant text passages.

JeffH > The product you and others from Poser Pros "dismembered" had a morph to correct the problem which was over looked.

Dark_Whisper is a member of Poser Pros too.

JeffH > Our testers actually know what they are doing and do it very well.

If I were a store tester I would have failed 28 from the 121 products I purchased at the Renderosity MP.

Jeff, with friends like you, 'rosity doesn't need enemies! snicker

"Dark_Whisper is a member of Poser Pros too"

I'm sure as a member he enjoyed seeing his product's "public dismemberment" by the other members of Poser Pros.

In future if you have any real customer concerns please let us know, we'd be glad to help you.

Other than that leave the agenda elsewhere.

-JH.

JeffH > Other than that leave the agenda elsewhere.

Don't beat around the bush. If you think I have a agenda then please call me on it.

You know I really resent that. I treat everyone the same.