Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=940996

Re: Thie linking to other artists' galleries over at mysticfantasies.com... the site is open again right now if you want to check out the evidence yourself. (See the thread earlier on) While she might link to the artists' sites themselves, the bookmark stays on her own, so hits belong to her. Besides, I seriously doubt that Dalinise and BJ gave permission to HER????

excuse me, but BJ and all renderosity artists have a link that welcomes anyone to link back to there site... check it out...

hmatienzo, linking is certainly allowed and the linkee has no way to stop it even if the site which is linking to them is bashing them. the question you might ask is if there were permission to use the thumbnails, if the thumbnails are still in use. i have to say i've noticed Karen's prolification in the poser hot20 and have also wondered how those simple character renders got in there compared to what NORMALLY gets in there. however, i would not attack her for it. the system enabled it and so the system is at fault, IF there is any fault. the question i had to ask myself is if there is anything wrong if something that is not NORMALLY there gets in there... well, i had quite a bit of fun with the pink pony (the first time around, after that i got bored and didn't pay attention to it, sorry Legs) and that didn't normally get in there. therefore i cannot complain if the same scenario is played out by someone else just because i don't know the person. tayl. ;)

It's a sad day, when these dead-looking dribblings can make the Hot20, over and over... taking the room from real artists... And sad that someone needs to resort to such tactics to even get in there. Like or like not Legume, at least he got in fair.

April's right - there's a huge difference between linking, and using someone else's copyrighted image to link.

If you don't have permission, don't use anyone else's work. It's a pretty simple concept. Link away, but use text or an offered banner, NOT their work unless they say you can.

Addendum: Note that it doesn't say "Please steal my work to use on your own site." We are proud to host the works of CryptoPooka here at Renderosity.com. If you would like to make a direct link from your own website to this artist's gallery, please feel free to do so! Here is the recommended URL, just copy and paste! Copyright Statement: All images are copyrighted by the original author, not this website. Users are only allowed to upload works that they themselves hold the copyright to. If you see any images in violation of this, please contact the staff. The images displayed here cannot be used for any purpose, without express written consent of the original author. The dates shown here are the date the image was first uploaded to our galleries, and does not represent the original copyright date of the piece. Please click on the author's name to send them an email if you wish to inquire about their artwork

So you're saying that it's okay to steal others work, so long as they get exposure from it? Hey guys, it's okay to rip someone off, so long as you use it openly and loudly for advertising, because ripping them off is a benefit to THEM! Oh please, do clarify more.

Those great artists, REAL artists, do not her little site for exposure, LOL! Imagine Valejo needing her... (snickers)

I imagine Vallejo will be filing charges. They expressly forbid using their art. Just because it is masquerading as a link will not let is escape a copyright violation. And of course, I would like to SEE this permission and how it allows a virtual "nobody" special privelidges that have been denied to thousands of Credible art sties in the last 9 years.

Hmmmmmm, I am not an artist, but I am a member of renderosity, Seems like alot of talk about nothing. I have watched the poser hot 20 myself, and I have seen some pictures that made me do a belly laugh. That pink horse was a hoot! Now, what is all the fuss over one artist for? I have watched her art from its humble beginings and find she is developing nicely. In my most humble opinion, she has a ways to go, but wouldnt your energy be better spent in guidence rather than attack? I have found in my many years on this earth that those who attack are often percieved as insecure, but that is my opinion. Thomas

What is lacking from the site is a big note informing people that they MAY NOT download and use the art work linked to....PSP designers especially linkware ones who belong to most of these groups DO tend to take anything they like and make it into a tube and sites that advertise art work in this way help the theives to locate unusual art work Im a linkware designer myself, I have exclusive rights to a number of REND artists plus rights to use other artists work to make sets etc...I was one of the first designers to promote poser art now everyone is getting on the bandwagon and a lot of art has been stolen and used without permission, so I used to spend a lot of my time hunting down these sad people and making them remove art from their site...I am now getting into poser myself and hope to make renders specifically for people to use as tubes in the hope it will stop a lot of the recent art theft......People think if they tube up a fairy etc from an art piece no one will realise where its from..... If someone wants to promote just art, it should be an art site only if u also offer tubes etc, it leaves it open for the PSP addicts who tube anything without a thought for the artist.....Believe me I see it all the time..so the least this site should do is have a large note regarding copyright and informing people the art is not for the taking, as the note about it at rend galleries is very small and most people dont scroll down that far to see it....

What is tube? explain please

Tubes are a Paint Shop Pro tool that is basicaly scaleable clipart -- a single image, or multiple images that you "paint" with, on a transparent background. They aren't like brushes, you can't change colour or transparency of the tube itself without using layers, the shape and image remain the same regardless of size, and with little to no "talent" needed. You can create a tube of say, the Mona Lisa. Suddenly, you have HUNDREDS of her all over your page with a stroke of the mouse. That's precisely the problem. Some people take pieces of an artist's copyrighted work, cut them out, put them on the transparent background, and use someone else's work to make their own.

LOL, Terri... your spelling was as off as was mine tonight! Time for either more coffee or bedtime (it's like 4:30 am here)... Take your pick, friend!

I think it's contagious. :morose: Definitely more coffee.

so tube is a copy? sorry, my english is not so good. Come to my home and enjoy the cafe' this artist? she is a tube? no? I like her art so far, not artist here, only very fond of this site. do not like to see such fighting. so sorry, you all do such beautiful work, you should all be proud. I think maybe this fighting not good for me or this site. bye bye

Maria, a tube is something Paint Shop Pro uses. It's like a little stamp you make from a picture, and you can use it as such, much like a brush. Lately, more and more people have been using copyrighted work to distribute these tubes around.

I'm curious about this list she said she cancelled.

All these messages must be creating alot of traffic for her. I just click on the link to her site and got this..... Sorry, this site is temporarily unavailable! The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer. Visit our help area for more information. Access to this site will be restored within an hour. Please try again later. http://www.geocities.com/rnkarener2002/MysticFantasiesHomeSite.html Need extra data transfer? Sign up for GeoCities Pro or Webmaster. Learn more.

You still don't understand. I don't think you want to understand.

If you wish to pursue art you have to learn to take comments that are not always favourable, being an art agent also and speaking from an agents point of view I also am suprised so many of your pieces are in the top 20, they are good but definatly lack something that is seen in other artists work here at rend and I can fully understand why people are asking about the votes u received which I am 100% sure were not from REND artists themselves..this is a tightknit community and even if artists are close friends they only vote if the piece is worthy... Being art agent for Turtle and having rights to artists such as ravnheart, Jen etc, I only ever vote if I feel a particular piece deserves it no matter how much I actually like the render..Turtles art on my own site has a massive fan following and has the largest amount of hits than any other section of the site..I am sure if people knew they could vote for her she would be in the TOP 20 every week, but that would be unfair so we do not notify anyone they can actually vote like that for her down here at REND as we do not for any other artist I represent Showcasing beautiful art work on a site that many PSP users will visit to me is like death to copyright,..Its great to showcase artists but u have to do it the right way, ensure copyright notices are in place and keep it seperate from anything to do with PSP downloadables..and of course have a page which u can show proof of permission from the artists that u have rights to promote their art....Its one reason Turtle and I refuse to allow anyone to showcase her art,except a couple of 3D sites as we know full well eventually it will end up as clipart or a tube...

I believe the PSP list was FlyByNightGraphics. Contact the list owner (and an artist at Renderosity) - look for FlyByNight (I think).

try contacting the artists represented on her site and see if they have allowed permission for her to use one of their images. Especially boris and Julie

There is also the issue of fair use. For example, it is legal to post a screenshot from a film in the context of reviewing that film, even though just posting it in a gallery would be a breach of copyright. If the only complaint vis a vis Boris/Julie is that a copyright picture has been turned into a thumb used to cover a link to their site, it could conceivably be argued that this constituted fair use. But I imagine it's murky waters.

Showcasing beautiful art work on a site that many PSP users will visit to me is like death to copyright,..Its great to showcase artists but u have to do it the right way, ensure copyright notices are in place and keep it seperate from anything to do with PSP downloadables..and of course have a page which u can show proof of permission from the artists that u have rights to promote their art... okay....there is a little script that can disable right click save image. is this script being used on the site? or, are all the artists there open to "tubers"? i'm the one that brought your site to the attention of the folks at large, here. why? because, when viewing it, it just did not seem quite honorable. of course, you getting your list to vote you into the 20 with each and every upload is not, imo, honorable either. i vote for the 20. i vote for folks whose pics move something in me. i hate to see them get displaced time and again by what i consider insipid, mediocre images. you've a way to go with poser. it is wrong to use a program for a month or so, and, use friends and acquaintances to boot you into an area of esteem that others have worked years to achieve. by cheating, you have won nothing. by disabling comments, when they become honest, you are further showing this community your contempt of what we stand for. if you can't take honest criticism...don't enable comments/ratings at all. if you can't take honest critism AND scrutiny....don't try and put yourself into the limelight. 'cause that's what you wanted...limelight....if you are geting scrutinized because of it....oh well. hope you are a bit more honorable with your nursing. although, with all your posts to gallery of late, i am not sure whethere that is a full time job, or not. Pop...Pop...Poppi!!!

Attached Link: http://www.bjshaven.com/

I have had many people email me asking me if they could put a link on their web site to mine. Two have asked for some kind of a banner or art work to use for the link. I do not have a banner so I gave the two people one of my art works for the link. Karen is one of them that I gave the art work to use as a link. I have also had several people write to me giving me web addresses showing my art work claiming it as their work. I dealt with that on a one to one basis, not in a forum to cause pain and hatred of others. The Hot 20 here has caused many problems and will ALWAYS upset people. I don't know why they even have it. It would be nice if it had an option to click on to request it or not when we upload our art work just like we can request a comment or rating of our art work. I don't understand why people just can't get along with each other. We are all different and are at different levels of our art work. Why can't we just learn, create and get along. I'm really sorry to see all this hate. Barbara Jean (BJ)

Thank you BJ for putting to rest one of these misconceptions. I hope this gives all food for thought that even a " nobody " like me can still have a wonderful friend and mentor like BJ who honored me by being my artist of the week and alloqing me to add her link to my web site. Now, Can we just move on? Karen

OMGosh BJ!! You got the movie site up~~ I am so excited for you! Congrats!!!!!!!!!! bringing the popcorn and pulling up the chair! You are a darling! PS... got your emails, will look into it~~~

Actually, they were very constructive Karen... not fawning, but useful comments. Jack

I never saw them... Just woke up.. never saw them..

I do not have the ability to remove a comment without removing all comments. So, either Exotica removed her comments or the admin did,either way, I didnt see them. But, I was emailed about them. Nothing specific though. I am always willing to take helpful hints.

Hey! Hold on. I saw Exotica's comment and there was nothing there that an arist eager to learn wouldn't have been happy to see. Jack

Just caught up on this thread and the previous related thread. My 2 cents: Her work is not bad, but not great. if she figured out how to get voted into the top 20, then good for her. The top 20 is a popularity contest, plain and simple. If she was able to get people to vote for her, then she's in there legitimately. Any one of us could do the same. So where's the unfairness? What it really sounds like people want here is a top 20 that is voted in by an impartial set of judges who can't be influenced by any particular artist. That would be a more 'fair' assessment of wether the work is worthy according to the tastes of the judges. The thing about art is, everyone's tastes are different. So, what to do?

"hmatienzo, linking is certainly allowed and the linkee has no way to stop it even if the site which is linking to them is bashing them. " Actually there was a court case about this (last year the year before?) that resulted in if a site owner posts a note in regards to where a link may be or that linking is not allowed you can not link to their site. Furthermore they can limit who may link to their site. Always thought it was a bit "off" to want to prohibit linking - but legally they can. Anyhow that was just a little side note -- carry on.

Any one of us could do the same. So where's the unfairness? well, it is unfair, because, with the exception of the mpp triumph over the 20....we DONT. so, should the rest of us do a: give up on our principles, and beg folks to vote us into the 20? b: shun the 20, and spend more time in church? c: give up on the poser gallery altogether, as it seems to bring out character flaws in the addicts posting there? d: all of the above, learn modelling, and ask our doctors for heavy painkillers throughout the process?

"Always thought it was a bit "off" to want to prohibit linking - but legally they can." groan Now aren't you glad you didn't become a lawyer? hahaha

I think D in most cases *8-). Poppi, I think you missed my point. Anyway, I think we're whipping a dead horse here. (Where's Legume when you need him?)

Kinda only an issue in the Poser Gallery. In the Fractal Gallery, it's a way of life. People regularly get voted into the top 20 with crap that looks like a chimp slammed his hand on the keyboard and his keeper punched render. But, what the hey, only Fractals, right? This is why I never ever look at the top 20. Emily

"groan Now aren't you glad you didn't become a lawyer? hahaha" Yeah actually I am - alot less stress! " People regularly get voted into the top 20 with crap that looks like a chimp slammed his hand on the keyboard and his keeper punched render." I thought that was a fractal :-P~~~

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=268216&Hot=Y

Nope, this is a fractal-- no chimps involved and no post either. I was nice, I didn't use one of mine.;P It is in the top 20 and it should be. Not a bad top 20 right now, except for the smiley faces. Emily