GREAT DISCUSSION :) I agree with Phantast: "...solution ... optional rotational parameters: e.g. a dial for "rotate local X" and another for "rotate global x"." For a single pose (picture) it doesn't matter what the math is internally - just have the program calculate whatever numbers it needs to reach the requested position. In this case, it is purely a matter of creating a user interface that gives the user the control they desire. For an animation - quaternions versus Euler angles - it isn't like Poser provides any way to control what path it takes - it always takes the path determined by its ordering of the 3 angles. This is no better than the quaternion solution - it just fails in different situations. In either math approach, what is needed, as was mentioned, is some way for user to SPECIFY what path is desired. (With either approach, the bad cases can be improved by adding more key frames.) I don't have enough experience to prove it, but it should be possible with quaternions to get any desired path by specifying the direction to be moving in at each key point, similar to defining a spline path through space. That is, quaternions deal with ROTATION change in a way that allows well-developed solutions for POSITION change to be used. Euler angles do not have such desireable properties. What I'm saying is that quaternion-based applications will eventually offer superior user-interfaces for animation. (Maybe they do now - I can't afford any of the high-end stuff...) - - - - - - - - - - The Direct Manipulation tool in Poser5 looks like it does useful math - turn one of its rings, and see how Twist, Side-by-Side, and Bend change for a given body part. Personally, I have trouble with the DM tool. I end up clicking on a body part when I don't want to - especially when trying to do a freehand movement. I also have trouble doing the freehand movement I want - it doesn't seem to act like a trackball - I often get a rotation in the plane of the screen (like hands of a clock), when I am trying to pull a figure head-over-heels. The end result is that I never bother using the DM tool. A shame, as it is such a promising idea... - - - - - For many uses, I find dials easier for precise results. So while we're wishing, I wish there was a "3 dials" version of the DM tool. Or at least, a DM tool that disables part selection. For example, hold down ctrl if want to pick new part, otherwise, stays with current part.

igohigh - re Princess morph: 1. You mention chest, but most of the action would be in rCollar and lCollar. 1.1. In Poser, Did you spawn morphs for those body parts as well? 1.2. In Tailor, did you select the morphs in those body parts too? 2. Before transferring morph to dress, confirm that the morph works in the base figure. In Tailor, open up the figure, open up each body part that has a morph you want, select that morph, and change its value to "1". You will immediately see the base figure change. You might try this even before LOADING clothing, so that you can easily see the figure.

Another problem with the Tailor-izing - as soon as attempt to pose, cloth won't follow figure - due to the scale change between original and PT.

Tried to adapt Red Velvet Dress from Vicky's Euro Wear to PT girl, using Tailor. 1. Per part of PT Vicky, Export OBJ as morph. (in export dialog, uncheck universe, then check just one part). 2. Select each part of Vicky 2, load corresponding OBJ as a morph named PT. Set morph to "1.0". Indeed, became shape of PT. 3. Memorize figure, and save to char lib. 4. Load that new char CR2 into Tailor. 5. Load dress. 7. Select menu option "Morphs selected like one body morph". 8. Per part, check that "PT" morph. 9. Create morphs in the dress. 10. Back in Poser4, loaded PT Vicky and the dress. 11. Turn on PT morph in dress. 12. With IK OFF, in Joint Ed, "Zero Figure" PT, to see how dress falls on her before attempt to conform. Problems: * neck and shoulder - transparent edges jagged - kind of a "scalloped" effect - rather than smooth curve. * hips poke thru at sides. * skirt area completely botched, with many vertices not moving into place (PT much shorter than Vicky, these vertices appear to be "left behind" during the morph). * texture scrunched up around the bosom. 13. Conformed dress to PT. * Complete mish-mosh. Clearly, joint parameters must be totally re-done. Conclusion: not useful in this situation. There are two separate issues: A. Tailor would need to be revised to better perform this morph adaptation. B. Creating good conforming parameters - how? - - - - - - - - - - I hesitate to say this here, after the hostile ranting by a few people against "commercial" messages in this Poser Forum and the gallery, but since someone has asked, here goes: In December and January, I will be offering some inexpensive solutions for adapting clothing between characters. I am tackling cases that Tailor doesn't handle well or can't do at all. For example, I can adapt clothes between Poser4 woman and Vicky, even though they are completely different meshes. There are many issues, so I am not attempting a "general utility" solution at this time. Instead, I feed clothes one at a time through some custom math I wrote, making changes as needed. My first product will be a large set of adaptations for Kaila, who is based on PT girl. (A teenage girl with almost no wardrobe, who I'm sure would love to be able to wear Vicky's and Posette's clothes!) Like with Tailor, you would have to own the original clothing item for each item you want Kaila to wear. Unlike Tailor, you can't adapt a cloth at all until I've fed it through my math and adjusted as needed. I will then tackle other characters, based on popular demand.

If the original OBJ did not have "vertex normals", then Poser creates them - perhaps Poser's algorithm was undesirable in this case. Therefore, use some external tool (e.g., UVMapper or 3DS Max) to create the normals. The "fix" in post #6 may have worked due to this.

I also think this is a figure that hasn't been Zero Figure'd + Memorize Figure'd. It is unlikely to be a bug - your example should work fine once you learn the steps to take - as you are learning, those steps are somewhat tricky - hang in there :) Search for previous threads about conforming, both here and at PoserPros.

Re dial in body vs. dial in part - easy enough to have both - a body dial that controls a master channel in the most appropriate body part.

dodger - "smart props" ... "internal name used has a :# added where # is the number of the heirarchical level" From what I've seen, that ":#" on a prop is the same as on a body part - it is the number of the figure to which the prop is attached. Regarding pose files: I have a smart props file that attaches several props to the selected figure. I have poses that modify those props. They work fine, even if that identical smart props file is added to two identical figures (e.g., two Posettes). Whichever Posette I have selected, the pose file affects the prop on that posette. To get this to work: delete ALL the ":#" from the pose file. - - - - - Regardless of technique, watch out for that Poser bug where when the second figure is first loaded, any operations (dial changes, pose loads) may affect the FIRST figure, even though the figure selector below the window shows the SECOND figure. Work-around is to select the first figure, then re-select the second figure. Now Poser really knows it is working with second figure.

les- "a normal pose file (pz2) can only load channel and mat data, right? I'm not sure. But an lt2 can load a pose and an OBJECT, but only if the object is called "spotLite.obj" ?" pose file can set any attributes of one or more figures or objects, that must already exist in the scene. Apparently, any of the other library files can be edited to load one or more figures or other objects, set to whatever pose each entity had when it was saved to the library. that is, lights could be put in a cr2 or vice versa. My point is, any library file other than pose can "pose" whatever object(s) it is loading... - - - - - - - - - - Re the geometry - I think I've seen .lt2 files that omit the objFileGeom line from a spotlight. Sounds like it is ignored when read in.

E-Bob - Looks like pose file can only change attributes of existing parts/props. Conversely, figure and prop files create entirely new figures (or overwrite existing figures). If correct, then there is no way to accomplish that (add prop and pose figure + prop) in a single file. Simplest solution I can see is TWO files: * file #1 is a smart prop, so that it adds itself to a figure. E.g., it contains a line like: smartparent hip * file #2 is a pose file, which can pose both a human figure, and a prop of a known name ALREADY attached to that figure, such as file #1. The prop posing can include switching which body part is parent. As pointed out, the prop posing can also switch geometry. This does lead to one interesting possibility: a prop or figure file that loads and attaches multiple "default" props to a person. These props could even come in "invisible". For example, one might "invent" standard names for smart props, such as "LBracelet", "Necklace", "LHandHeld" etc. - each attached to the appropriate body part. Select a figure. Load the multi-smart-prop file (which will parent these props to the SELECTED figure). Now, can have pose files that do things like: * Over the "LHandHeld" prop with a particular item, and pose the hand to hold that item. * Replace the "Necklace" with a particular necklace, and make it visible.

Jaager - "A pose file will hide targetGeom for a file in play." Ah, that is useful. Could make a pose file whose sole purpose was to hide those hundreds of annoying slave channels in the body parts of one of the advanced figures :)

les- count me as another lurker who finds this quite interesting!

Attached Link: http://poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6502

• I am curious what CR2 hack ScottA refers to. Any hacks I can think of are likely to come back to haunt you. (like, welding shin directly to chest might interfere with inkyChain). * bloodsong's question about rotation orders seems right on. I don't know enough about that subject, but check into that first. * barring that, if at all possible, get mat spheres to work, rather than trying odd things in CR2 file... First goal is to get SOMETHING happening re the spheres at that shin/shoulder joint. Random thoughts on doing so: Some tests to try: First, double-checking that you are doing what you intend, as opposed to some Poser bug. 1. zero figure. (this is the position in which the mat sphere influence is calculated. Whenever a mat sphere doesn't do what you expect, check what areas it is overlapping when in the zero figure pose). 2. in ProPack or P5, use the 4-window view, to see the spheres from all angles. Maybe set display mode to wireframe, so that you can see the spheres better "thru" the figure. At least until you get the spheres doing SOMETHING. 3. Check spheres for both Bend and Side-to-Side of the shin. 4.Try extreme changes to get the spheres to completely clamp down, since we're not seeing any effect at all. For example, set xScale,yScale,zScale all to .01, for both inner and outer sphere. Checking to make sure CR2 has what you want: 5. shoulder should have a channel like "jointX rShin_jointx". It should have a sphereMatsRaw with identical numbers as the originating "jointX rShin". It should be preceded by a line "flipped". 6. try in some OTHER CHANNEL that "extreme change" mentioned above. Try manually copying the values from a channel that works to the shin/shoulder channel pair. Other thoughts: 7. Does the mirrored part on the left side work okay? 8. What is different about the shin and/or the shoulder? 9. Are you using part scaling on either part; e.g. set rShin 's yScale?

I LIKE it when someone, anyone, responds by mentioning possible approaches, including commercial ones. That doesn't strikes me as "advertising". If someone has honestly asked how to do something, why not tell them there is something they can buy that would help? Here is my reasoning: if a forum gets overrun with NEW threads that are thinly veiled advertising, then that would be a community disservice, because it makes it hard to find threads you want. But once a thread has been started on a given topic, anyone reading that thread IS interested in that topic. So, how is mention of commercial solutions WITHIN such a thread, as long as it sticks to the topic of the thread, in any way offensive? Now, if someone were to start making off-topic advertisements within threads, then I say, get out the pitchforks and torches, and unleash the hounds grin NOTE: my perspective may be distorted, as I hope soon to offer items for sale, but I am genuinely interested in understanding the issue here. I don't want to start making posts that offend people!