Nevertrumper posted at 10:51 AM Thu, 13 April 2023 - #4462029

Instead of wasting money with half ready shaders and a ripped off render engine,
Poser costs 250$ and it includes a ripp off of a render engine that comes free with Blender.)

Am I really the only one here, who thinks, that Poser is milking his loyalists in an dishonest way?

You've repeatedly called Cycles engine "ripped off." It is not - it is open source, which means it's free to anyone to utilise. It was VERY intelligent way for Smith Micro to add physically based rendering to Poser, using a popular, well respected engine, to Poser. It provided Poser users with a vast resouce of tutorials, broad compatibility, and good PBR results. I really don't understand your hostility towards it.

"they‘ could have come up with a solid Blender link and work on those things, that are directly important for an app, that deals with 3d figures. "

A massive number of Poser users have no interest in learning how to use Blender. That said, I thought that Bondware/SM were unwise to cancel the Fusion plug in that enabled you to use Poser in pro 3D software.

No, I do not think Poser/Bondware is milking loyalists. Even if speed was the only improvement in Poser 12, it was worth $99. In Poser 13, the content is easily worth the asking price (although I would have liked more substantive upgrades).

We all want to see Poser thrive, and I have PLENTY of issues with Bondware, but off the top of my head, I'd say ripping off the Poser loyalists is not one of them.

Nevertrumper posted at 9:53 AM Thu, 13 April 2023 - #4462022

There has been a short period of time, where I actually thought, that SM is finally doing the right thing.

Introducing weight mapping, making the morph brush useful, reverse deformations on morph target creation and giving us more control over morphs with the dependencies editor.

It just feels like, they‘ve lost interest in Poser after the PP2014 release.

Absolutely correct. SM abandoned the program. When they bought it, it was the second most pirated software in the world after Photoshop according to their marketing guy. By the end, even the pirates didn't consider it worth copying.

But let's try to be positive and look to the future. Smith Micro's appalling treatment of the program bears no relationship to Bondware. I think that they genuinely have good intentions for the program, but it lost so much ground to Daz Studio and iClone, that they cannot invest the money it really needs until it starts to sell a lot more copies, but it won't sell more copies until it becomes a lot better...
In that context, I can appreciate the moves that they are making, and the speed that they are working, even though I desperately wish they would move faster.

hornet3d posted at 6:15 PM Wed, 12 April 2023 - #4461963

Considering the deceitful way SM introduced the deadly deactivation feature with Game Dev I struggle to see how SM did Poser users any favours then or after they sacked the dev team.  I am much happier that Poser is in the hands of Bondware than being left under the ownership of SM.

I agree 100%. SM's ownershp of Poser was a disaster in the long term. I was a journalist at the time, and I could tell you one or two stories about my interactions with them, but frankly, I don't want the potential legal hassles. Suffice it to say, I NEVER respected the company. For a while, Steve Cooper over there was one of the good guys, but my opinion of him underwent a radical revision just before he left.

AmbientShade posted at 9:08 PM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461851

Is there somewhere that shows a list of all the additional content that's included in Poser 13?

I commented upon the lack of a list in my review. I did endeavour to click through much of the content though. It's bookmarked on the vid. Far from ideal, but possibly better than nothing?

AmbientShade posted at 9:17 PM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461855

Y'all are gonna get this thread locked if you don't tone down the argumentative tone.

Just sayin.

Thanks for the heads up...

ChromeStar posted at 7:39 PM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461836

Poser 12 felt like a pretty significant upgrade to me. The speed improvements alone were worth the price of admission. Improvements in material assignment. The addition of PrincipledBsdf. Those are things I take advantage of every time I use the software. It's also been pretty interesting to see functionality added over the course of the release cycle. That increased visibility about what the team is actually working on is what does not match up with the comments above.

The speed was a game changer, but a hugely belated one. Principled came in 70% through 12's lifecycle. It was welcome, but simplified the technology that already existed. The material assignment thing didn't do much for the way I work, but perhaps that's a negative reflection on the way I work ;-)
The greatest thing that 12 had going for it, was an inexpensive upgrade price. As you said, "The speed improvements alone were worth the price of admission."
If somebody said to me, "Here's a script that will increase the render speed by (whatever optix did), for $100" it would have been a no brainer.
But a commenter on my vid made the observation that the underlying technology has been stagnant for a decade, and by and large, I don't much disagree with that notwithstand superfly in 2015. Innovations rather than streamlines have been awfully thin on the ground wouldn't you say?

Y-Phil posted at 7:46 PM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461838

I NEVER criticize the work of others, at least not in public: if I have something to say, I address the company, the developer, the person.

"Praise me in public, criticise me in private" hmmm?
This is the manipulative request of every manager and company, that wants their shortfalls addressed in private where they cannot start a contagion of others criticising, but I'm sorry, if you want your praises in public, then you must risk the counter side as well.

"I NEVER criticize the work of others," Oh really, so telling someone "5 minutes and I stopped the video. Always the same criticisms, it becomes tiring." is not a criticism? Of course it is, and it's an arrogant one at that. You are implicitly saying "I am so bored by hearing this criticism that Poser's owners have not addressed after decades, that if anyone raises it, their work is beneath me to listen to."
Frankly, the opinion of a single woefully misguided and irrational person is trivial to me, but please, spare me the sanctimony. Your method of addressing the issue accomplishes almost, if not literally zero unless you have some particular leverage with Bondware that you are not mentioning. Changes happen when companies are incentivised to do so, not when fangirls or boys, blow smoke up their backsides.
"they are not comparable because they do not have the same purpose."
Daz and Poser are competing in EXACTLY the same creative space. Don't think that DS's advanced functionality places it in a different category.

Y-Phil posted at 2:47 PM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461771

Nevertrumper posted at 2:32 PM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461765

Got anything else constructive to say?

I could ask YOU the same thing.

nevertrumper has accurately identified a number of issues that many Poser users would like addressed. All you've done is shoot the messenger repeatedly. How is YOUR approach leading to a better program?

Nevertrumper posted at 8:49 AM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461696

blackbonner posted at 2:43 AM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461667

Poser has always worked like a religious cult, that is bad in taking criticism and demonizing it as trolling, instead of taking it seriously as a chance for improving. 

This has been going on since Poser 5 times.

Absolutely spot on, and I don't get it. I would give honest criticism of my best friend to his face if he asked for it, for his own good, let alone an underperforming program I paid money for! I think people confuse their passion for the program with a misplaced need for loyalty. I get that if everyone just bashed it, Poser would die, but it can't be immune from criticism. The ironic thing is, I suspect the technical guys are pretty prosaic about the program's strengths and weaknesses, as well as its place in the market. It's just the marketing guys who have to fabricate a false enthusiasm.

blackbonner posted at 2:43 AM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461667

At least to my knowledge he does it in his spare time and for free. He's putting out content on a regular basis. That's more anyone else here does and I think he deserves a bit more respect for what he does for the Poser community.

Thank you. Yes I work for free out of a desire to raise the program's profile, and enthuse people. This review took a solid week, and it wasn't even spare time ;-)

"He's definitely not a cheerleader"

No, but that was a conscious decision. Whether people agree or not, they can trust that I'm *trying* to present a balanced picture.
I don't hate the marketing team, but nor do I think they are serving the program particularly well.

hornet3d posted at 3:41 AM Tue, 11 April 2023 - #4461671

I think the Tech team are great and the have a thankless task in trying to please everyone with Poser in the state they inherited it.  I do however feel the criticism of the marketing strategy to be very accurate and to the point.

I couldn't agree more. Nothing but respect for the support they have provided over the past 2 years.

Y-Phil posted at 9:56 AM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461537

Always the same criticisms, it becomes tiring.

Y-Phil posted at 9:56 AM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461537

5 minutes and I stopped the video.

Good to know you gave it a fair chance then. I'm sure your opinion will be invaluable.

*I* wasn't the one, who just a couple of months ago was advertising the inclusion of unimesh figures - Bondware was.
They CHOSE to bring it to the tabel. Don't get snarky when I point out that they failed to deliver. If they had not mentioned it, nor would I.

"starting a review with this kind of criticism is not cool"

What's not cool is tolerating undelivered marketing promises.

"Just a little patience."

Yeah, because 15 years is not long enough. With each day, Poser gets more and more outdated, and here you're carrying water for them?!

hornet3d posted at 7:23 AM Mon, 10 April 2023 - #4461520

Not a lot I can argue with.

Thank you hornet!

Boni posted at 11:02 PM Tue, 4 April 2023 - #4460823

Actually there IS a shadow catcher in Cycles 2, which is in Poser 13.  So it does work in P13.  Another great selling feature.

Could you please tell me how to activate it?