Given that an awful lot of people have queried what has been one of SM's most detested Poser features which is not only being perpetuated by Bondware but has also been increased in frequency should answer your question. Yes! They probably can hear you and no, they are not listening. Had they been doing so we would not have needed this latest thread https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2938482 which simply repeats what has already common knowledge, instead of answering with openess and honesty about their intentions regarding this license debacle. Instead, we are left with speculation from other members (with all due respect to them) who, at the end of the day, are not privy to the inner workings of Bondwares corporate strategy. I must admit when Bondware announced their acquisition of Poser I saw it as a positive step in reviving the fortunes of my favourite 3D program. Now, I'm very much afraid, it's more along the lines of, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" closely followed with a healthy dose of, "I'll believe it when I see it!". Perhaps Bondware should also bear in mind while planning the next version (if any) that those people they are alienating now with their blanket silence are the very same people they will be expecting to buy it!

Hi, donnena! Thank you for your reply. Window's user also here. I was pointed to your solution by a friend on another forum who read my post and I'm delighted to report that everything is sorted. You'd have thought I should have known that after all these years as a Poser user, but I didn't! Cie la vie! Respect!

Upgrade downloaded and installed and I am currently working on a new image. Runtimes (which I keep on a separate hard drive) installed without problem using the 'add library' button. Just a couple of niggles, one minor, one not so. I prefer to use the navigation buttons on my PC to scroll through the library. No problem with P 11.1 but in P11.2 I reach the bottom of the page at which, apart from jumping a bit, it stops. Annoying but easily overcome by using the scroll bar. Much more aggravating though is the library thumbnails in P11.2. They are minuscule even compared to P11.1 and definitely a drawback for anyone with less than perfect eyesight like myself. Hopefully, this is something which will be addressed sooner rather than later because it detracts from what is an otherwise excellent upgrade!

You know, I really had hoped that someone would take the time to read my post and think about it rather than jump in with a knee-jerk response which skims over the surface and ignores the parts you don’t want to hear (or think about) because they don’t comply with your own opinions! Contrary to your belief, I do in fact pay a lot of attention to the things vendors say and have said. There’s a simple reason for that. I’m a working artist and have been for all my life, both as a traditional artist and, for the past fifteen years, in 3D and I intend to keep it that way. Why? Because I have a vested interest in seeing vendors succeed in their endeavour’s for no other reason than that, if they don’t work I can’t. There can be no reasonable argument against that regardless of which side of the Daz/Poser fence you sit on! At the end of the day it’s all about making the money you need to live so what’s the point in restricting your earning ability by catering to only one part of the market. That’s not good business sense. I make a lot of money from my work mostly on the traditional side and I’m pretty satisfied with what I’ve got, however, since I started working in 3D my earnings have increased by around 18% per annum and that makes me very happy indeed. Exactly the same argument applies to the situation vendors find themselves in because of what is, after all, an artificial situation created by a small, but vociferous group of people with their own agenda’s intent on fomenting ill-feeling when the majority of 3D users are happy to remain in the background and get on with their lives. Incidentally, you don’t need to make everything twice to produce for DS & Poser. The object, which is the basis for all 3D programs, is only made once. The differences come with the rigging, etc (if it’s anything other than a static prop), format and to a lesser degree, materials. I know that whilst not being a vendor so why doesn’t someone who claims to know what makes them tick? Perhaps paying closer attention and some basic research may help you formulate a more accurate response in future?

Actually, I believe a lot of people would be happy to see more of the currently exclusive DS items made available to Poser users. No doubt vendors have their own reasons for not doing so ranging from sheer idleness to the disdain shown to Poser (on the basis of it being, in their eyes, a spent force), usually by former Poser vendors. As a supporter of both programs, I find it surprising that vendors are willing to make excuses and accept lost sales and reduced profit in what is already a comparatively small market. Perhaps Renderosity could be persuaded to do more in encouraging vendors to up their game and cater for both programs to a greater extent?

I'm just stunned by this. Joanne has been my hero and my prime source for a long time and without her wonderful talent the world will be a poorer place. We've lost a beautiful Lady. My very sincere condolences to her family.

Male_M3dia posted at 1:14AM Fri, 17 June 2016 - #4272426

Mythocentric posted at 11:14PM Mon, 13 June 2016 - #4272403

If you are going to take a shot the usual advice is to take a deep breath and hold it before squeezing the trigger to ensure you don't go wide of the mark. Even then it's vital to make sure that you're aiming at the right target in the first place! In what way is SM responsible for Renderosity's failure to maintain the balance of products in it's marketplace?

It's a false assumption to assume that Rendo has any responsibility to maintain a balance of products. Rendo is a business providing product that is in demand. If there is more of a demand for DS products, then that's the market at work because customers demand those products. If the Poser items aren't selling, it's not up to rendo to add products that aren't selling or force vendors to make more poser products because that's what you're asking. That's not how business or the marketplace works. And that's because the poser products doesn't have the appeal as the DS items, thus you need to take that up with SM, not rendo, vendors or DAZ.

Vendors have been making products for Poser for a good number of years and still are. No complaint there.

So there shouldn't be an issue then. What is the purpose of your posting then?

To claim that Poser content isn't up to snuff is frankly ridiculous.

Not really, otherwise you wouldn't complain about the abundance of DS products.

and I can only assume that your view is that Poser users stick to SM's content and don't actually buy content and I am sure there are a number of vendors here at |Renderosity who would happily put you through the wringer for dismissing their products with such disparaging bias.

They wouldn't as they are beginning to either create DS products or make sure their products work in DS because that's were the sales are driving. The vendors themselves are saying that Poser users are buying less; I think that's the part you're not getting. Customer drive the market and vendors have to pay their bills.

It's already been pointed out that SM's own content output hasn't kept pace with the program but there many vendors who have worked very hard to address that failure and done so with great success.The problem as far as Renderosity is concerned is that buyers are going elsewhere because they cannot find them here.

And where are they going? RuntimeDNA? Perhaps content paradise? I think you're in denial about the marketplace. There are some that won't work with DS that's true, but it doesn't change the fact that the poser content market is contracting, otherwise you wouldn't post about there is an abundance of DS products, correct?

The reason is that the balance of products towards Daz is now so heavily in Daz's favour that it is becoming untenable that Renderosity can maintain a fair marketplace which suits all prospective buyers which it claims to do.

And where does that come from? The customers' purchasing power, and the things I've previously said.

In the face of aggressive maketing stratagy from Daz, and remember that includes vendor-creation tools which tie the creators exclusively to Daz, its a situation which is at best untenable and at worst unsustainable if it is to survive.

So when poser was the only program in town, they weren't a monopoly? Of course they were. But in a free market society there is competition and if you don't provide the tools to help your users succeed, the market will shift toward the solution customers demand.. not a monopoly at all and to be honest, it's not like Poser users weren't happily using DAZ products before. However, because the tech in poser doesn't have all the features as in DS the figure tech has pretty much stagnated as the most popular figure is over 10 years old.

Early days yet but as always, the longer a problem is ignored the worst it becomes. All thats being asked in this thread is that Renderosity address that inbalance and correct it.

How? Force vendors to make certain items? Tell customers they can't buy certain items? As I said you're taking your complaint to the wrong company and your request makes no sense. Customers drive the market and the vendors supply that need through Rendo the brokerage. If you want more poser items, it has to be profitable for vendors to make more content. That comes from customers getting excited to buy poser content.. which comes from Smith micro. They're the ones that have to provide the tools and tech to get everyone excited... not a brokerage.

No ones has suggested that one platform should take preference over the other either way otherwise the only outcome is the monopoly that Daz are clearly striving for.

Actually they have by complaining that they don't like the fact that there is more DS products these days, yet had no complaint when there was a shortage of DS items (or items that were actually tested in DS).

Renderosity sells product for both platforms, but until they make that clear and present both with equal unbiased favour there is and will remain a problem.

They are doing their part by selling what vendors provide to them to sell. They can't sell what they don't have. And vendors won't make items that won't pay their rent. I think you're missing how a marketplace works. Things just don't appear in a store just because you want them there.

Frankly I'd rather see Renderosity in business as a successful independent concern rather than see it lose money to the point of becoming absorbed by default by the Daz conglomerate!

And they are. But they're a brokerage that sells items provided by vendors. Once again vendors provide items that are in demand from customers....

Lemmings? I believe that to be an accurate simile. Running blindly on with the mob without a thought for the future for as long as the money is coming in is great for the short term, but what do you do when you suddenly realise that the only thing beneath you is air?

I think denial is more in line with your post as the DAZ marketplace had been making their money innovating and improving their product while not much has gone on in the Poser figure front and the main seller is a 10 year old figure made by the same some company many here trash. This is why the marketplace is selling what it is now, and RDNA closed and their owners are making DS items after SM left them high and dry with badly bending Pauline and her "merchant resource" status looking for someone to fix her to people could actually start making content. I would suggest you learn how brokerages work, because from your statements you would run yours based on emotion and quickly would be bankrupt and out of business.

Is it really worth the effort of replying, because you appear to be determined to miss the point of this thread? There is no complaint about vendors producing products for Daz, Poser or any other format you care to name! Apart from yourself no one has suggested that vendors should be forced to create product for a particular format. What has been suggested is that any reasonably competent vendor should have no difficulty creating for both formats, and many do, and thus widening their market and profits! The reason for this thread is that Renderosity appears to have become overbalanced in the direction of Daz without giving thought for those people who prefer Poser, and there are a lot of them out there despite your claim to the contrary. Witness the success of sites like Hivewire who manage to produce content which is mostly, in the main, available for both formats. Its also worth mentioning that that site now sells content from former RDNA vendors who were dumped by Daz (Bought out by Daz and not simply closed as you claim) because they preferred to stay with Poser (and one of the reasons given for the buyout was that Daz intended to redress the balance by expanding its Poser content!) and, of late, former Renderosity vendors who have become dissatisfied with the way their (Poser) output is being sidelined by this site. Renderosity' latest newsletter claimed that it is THE (their caps!) site for Poser content. A small start in the right direction but of little help when that content is buried almost beyond finding. Perhaps it may be worth your while going back and reading the whole of this thread, this time with an open, unbiased mind before presenting a reasoned response rather than shooting yourself in the other foot!

If you are going to take a shot the usual advice is to take a deep breath and hold it before squeezing the trigger to ensure you don't go wide of the mark. Even then it's vital to make sure that you're aiming at the right target in the first place! In what way is SM responsible for Renderosity's failure to maintain the balance of products in it's marketplace? Vendors have been making products for Poser for a good number of years and still are. No complaint there. To claim that Poser content isn't up to snuff is frankly ridiculous and I can only assume that your view is that Poser users stick to SM's content and don't actually buy content and I am sure there are a number of vendors here at |Renderosity who would happily put you through the wringer for dismissing their products with such disparaging bias. It's already been pointed out that SM's own content output hasn't kept pace with the program but there many vendors who have worked very hard to address that failure and done so with great success.The problem as far as Renderosity is concerned is that buyers are going elsewhere because they cannot find them here. The reason is that the balance of products towards Daz is now so heavily in Daz's favour that it is becoming untenable that Renderosity can maintain a fair marketplace which suits all prospective buyers which it claims to do. In the face of aggressive maketing stratagy from Daz, and remember that includes vendor-creation tools which tie the creators exclusively to Daz, its a situation which is at best untenable and at worst unsustainable if it is to survive. Early days yet but as always, the longer a problem is ignored the worst it becomes. All thats being asked in this thread is that Renderosity address that inbalance and correct it. No ones has suggested that one platform should take preference over the other either way otherwise the only outcome is the monopoly that Daz are clearly striving for. Renderosity sells product for both platforms, but until they make that clear and present both with equal unbiased favour there is and will remain a problem. Frankly I'd rather see Renderosity in business as a successful independent concern rather than see it lose money to the point of becoming absorbed by default by the Daz conglomerate! Lemmings? I believe that to be an accurate simile. Running blindly on with the mob without a thought for the future for as long as the money is coming in is great for the short term, but what do you do when you suddenly realise that the only thing beneath you is air?

A valid point well made. While the moneys coming in I think most people are happy to go with the flow. But I have to pose the question – how many of those vendors are capable of thinking in a business sense? Not many I suspect and of those even less who can view the overall picture in the long term needed to remain successful. That’s a point I believe Daz recognises and, as Tempesta has made clear, is churning out new figures (or more accurately, variations on existing figures) to keep the flow going. While this may add greatly to the Daz coffers in the short term it can only result in the market becoming saturated as you say. Where to then? G4, G5 and so on? We’ve already seen how ready Daz is (via RDNA) to dump any vendor who doesn’t comply with its own worldview. It would be nice to think that some of them would even remember Poser and remember that there is an outlet for their talent. That, of course, depends on the fact that the many Poser users out there have stayed around rather than looking elsewhere for content! Personally I doubt if they will. There are others out there. I’ve already mentioned Hivewire3D, not because I have any connection with the company but because I’m a very satisfied customer of a company who supplies what I want and gives me a choice of platforms in doing so. Fortunately we still have vendors like Tempesta, to whom I would add SAV (studioartvartanian) who produce items cross-platform (via multiple re-fits, etc) very successfully and is the only reason I now visit Renderosity, in addition to Mihrelle and her superb V4 characters. There are others out there not willing to follow the lemmings and they deserve our gratitude. I can only hope that Renderosity removes its blinkers sooner rather than later and shows its appreciation too by putting their Poser output where it belongs, on an equal footing with the rest. It’s easy to believe that Renderosity can only sell what its vendors produce. That’s a falsehood. Renderosity is here to make money and it’s Renderosity who decides what it sells, not the vendors. Yes! It’s a big market but it’s a market with a limited amount of money to spend on its preferred platform. If that section of the market is ignored as it apparently is at present, it will go elsewhere to Renderosity’s detriment. That’s a very simple equation which seems to have been missed by those who should know better!

Hello again Tempesta3D, As you so correctly put it moves like the one by Daz on RDNA can only result in chaos and many people, like yourself, suffer as a result and it’s good that such actions as a result of Corporations like Daz are made public knowledge. However Daz is not the only player. Renderosity itself has a major role to play and the perception (that word again) is that Renderosity is playing to the Daz gameplan. That’s not a good position (except from the Daz viewpoint) for anyone to occupy and strongly indicates a limited, short-term outlook when its eyes should be on its long-term plans in the aftermath. Renderosity has a large part to play in the market and rightly sells products for both formats, though at the present time a potential buyer would find that difficult to believe with the emphasis given to Genesis, etc. That’s why I say Renderosity has lost the balance it used to have. I presume that other Poser users on the forum are already experienced in negotiating the site and are well capable of hunting down the items they want eventually, but to a buyer new to the market (and Renderosity!) the result is, to put it mildly, disappointing and disappointed buyers doesn’t make for sales. Sadly, I think that’s what it comes down to – money spelled out with capital dollar signs! The Corporate mind, as history proves time and again, is notoriously blinkered as long as the money is rolling in. Until the flood becomes a trickle because you’ve alienated a large percentage of your market in the process! Pretty much the same for those vendors who take the same short-term view. Just to illustrate how that resolves from my point of view – During May I spent approximately $57 at Renderosity. During the same period I spent over $250 at Hivewire! The reason for that is stupidly simple! I couldn’t find what I wanted at Renderosity so, like many other people I suspect, I went elsewhere! As you say it would be good if Daz and SM settled their differences but I’m afraid that a dream is what it will remain because of one simple fact. Daz is hellbent on monopoly! It’s very aggressive marketing strategy and recent actions prove that! How sad a comment it is to say that a lot of people will just sit back and allow it to happen. Does anyone really believe that the former owners of RDNA, safe in the comfort of their newly-acquired wealth, are bemoaning the loss of those vendors discarded in the pursuit of profit because they didn’t comply with the Daz Genesis mindset? My dream is that Renderosity (and its vendors) will remember that both Poser and Genesis have equal validity and give them equal billing in the marketplace and restore its former balance!

I must admit that as far as figures go I don’t usually give Pauline a thought. Poser itself is an excellent program (despite its little quirks!) let down by SM content which in my perception are aged and not really relevant in today’s market. It’s been argued elsewhere that backwards-compatability makes that inevitable, but there has to come a point where that becomes an excuse for failing to update content which is outstripped by the program which uses it. V4 too can be correctly seen as an older figure but remains, thanks to people like yourself, a major figure in the market. I must admit that out of 70 Gb+ of content I have in my runtimes, 40% of that is for V4! Dawn (and her sibling morphs Diva), I have great hopes for. Given the support by longer-sighted vendors I believe that she could become a worthy companion, or possible successor to V4. Again though, that depends on the few wiser vendors breaking out of the rut they’ve created for themselves and doing something about it!

At which point I will leave it. Apologies to Lyne, the OP for monopolising the thread unintentionally. She’s raised a very important subject which needs to be addressed and hopefully other contributors, both vendors and buyers, will find their voice and join in.

As one black sheep to another, (I’m the only artist in a family of labourers and manual workers going back to the ark!), I wish you well in your chosen career. It’s worth remembering that when all the dust has settled and the various combatants have crawled off to nurse their wounds and mourn they’re losses, we sheep will still be standing here quietly biding our time as always!

Hi Tempesta3D! I'm not against vendors creating products solely for Daz Studio or for Poser for that matter, although I am a Poser user almost exclusively because I find Studio somewhat obscure and awkward to use. However the people over at Hivewire3D do offer the best of both worlds, usually in the same product and that can only benefit the market at large. What I probably should have made clearer is the buyers perception of the way Renderosity is heading and that is headlong towards Daz. From my own point of view when I pop in to purchase stuff and find that the 'For you (?)' area of the site offers me nothing but Genesis with the sole exception of one Poser tutorial, despite me buying Poser products almost exclusively (I thinks I've probably bought around 4 or 5 Daz models over the years) I, like anyone, begin to think that Renderosity have either lost the plot, don't really care or, worst are trying to push me towards Daz Studio! As I mentioned before, I bought Prime membership this year for the first time in a good while and looked forward to building up my catalogue of models. That dream soon fizzled out when I had to start ploughing my way through seemingly endless Genesis products to find the buried Poser gems. I doesn't help when you see some of the superb outfits being produced for Genesis much of which I would certainly buy if a Poser version was available. Sad to say, they're not so thats a sale lost. Add up all those disgruntled buyers and thats a lot of dollars. Not a good situation in a highly competative market and one thats very hard to recover from. As I said, the keyword here is perception and the perception appears to be that Renderosity has gone too far and lost the balance of products it used to do so well. Neither is it helpful that we've just lost another major player in the form of RuntimeDNA which has been subsumed by the Daz corporate maw, who have incidentally quietly discarded a good few DNA (Poser-based) vendors in the process! OK, its early days yet and I'm not about to predict death and destruction, but I do believe it is time for Renderosity and its vendors to pause and think about the future and where they want it to go! Its too late to weep about things when the rug has been pulled from under you because you thought the short term was the whole thing!

Unfortunately Genesis appears to be 'flavour of the month' and until that changes the Poser customer will have to live in hope. Meanwhile vendors eagerly follow the fashion without realising that they affect their own sales by ignoring a large part of the market, a point well-made by Tempesta3D. No doubt most of us have heard the arguements that you cannot create for both, i.e. Genesis and Poser, or the difficulties in converting one to the other. Yes! There are problems, but not so hard that they cannot be overcome! If thats the case, how is it that the vast majority of products at www.hivewire3d.com are available for Daz and Poser? Sadly Renderosity appears to be following the trend rather than catering to the larger market and that's a pity because I've purchased here for a long time, even to the point of buying Prime membership this year, which is a mistake I won't repeat in the future.

Hello and thank you for your response! Ever onwards and upwards as the saying goes. Regards to all at Renderosity!

Mythocentric

Yes! A better search filter would be helpful, especially at this point in time. Other content sites have that facility so why not here on Renderosity, which is by far my preferred site? I appreciate that this is not just a Poser site and I wouldn't expect it to be. My problem is I am not the most patient of people so when I search for Poser content and plough through up to 10 pages or so of Genesis before I start to find it I tend to get fed up and go elsewhere! Again, there are vendors who supply versions of their products for both Genesis and Poser, so wouldn't it make sense for Renderosity's vendors to do that and enjoy a larger sales base? Genesis may be the flavour of the month but is it worth exploiting that to the exclusion of everyone else? Don't get me wrong. I have no intention of knocking Renderosity. Far from it for the simple reason that this the best content site by far. However I do think it needs to give some thought to redressing the balance between the various formats by making it easier to access the buyers preferred format without the extraneous luggage!