Poser: I'm sorry but I thought I'd made it quite clear on both pages that the texture is loaded to that it's a "bonus" texture from Renapd and the model is available from 3DArena as a site support item. It's also stated that only textures, lights and cameras are in that download. Perhaps it wasn't clear enough? GeeP: Thanks. That line is my favourite out of the whole site too. :) Pokeydots: There are three people who could probably shut down the internet in abject horror of they posted a pic of themselves. Ironbear, Allen9 and me. Don't ask for such a thing, it would be more than human minds could withstand. LOL Have to agree with mon1alpha too, I don't know that I'd trust what you'd do with a picture. :)

Well, I still think it sucks Donkey buttocks that you're leaving. One of the major attractions for Poserworld has been your textures and many times they've totally transformed the excellent clothing Steve does into something quite incredible. I for one am really going to miss your textures. OK, I appreciate that Vikki may be very good, we'll see. But it's your work that I've been collecting over the years and watched grow from early to now. Your work will be very sorely missed. Good luck to Vikki, I sincerely mean that, but while there'll be a party to welcome her there's still going to be a wake for you, and I have plenty of beer, wine and spirits for anyone who wishes to join in a farewell tribute. :) I look forward to seeing what you're going to get up to in the future and will be watching closely. smirk

Oh, and yes. I will be adding a "What's New" page, so people don't have to go digging through what seems to be turning into a bottomless pit. :)

Should they? Hrrm, personally I think, that's a resounding Yes. Why? Simple because competition stimulates a market and the poser market has been somewhat limited to one. So yeah, the more the merrier. I'm still waiting for some of the big boys to blink and realise there's actually a market at the home user/pro-am level and get their arses down here. Will they fix it? I'm more concerned with "can they fix it" than will, personally I very much doubt that they have the resources or ability to fix it, but they might just get it to work a bit better. :) I didn't bother going through the wish lists because there were so many of them, mostly repeating themselves and some of it was pretty "out there", some of the more basic wishes didn't make it though. I'm sure somebody will compile a list sooner or later. :)

Is THAT what I stepped in? I do wish people would house train their pet equus caballus

Now that's interesting. Thanks Cyberstretch... as I said, I'm just playing guessing games with much of it. As a "recipe" for a procedure it's possible that it could be interpreted through an import filter to utilise the recipe in the program parameters of the new application. That has some interesting possibilities, though I wonder why that wasn't implemented in ProPack? After all, if you suck a poser model into one of the supported apps all the IK and boning is lost and you have to set the whole thing up again (I think) Interesting though. Ta muchly.

"Animation Magazine has announced this year's winners of their "Golden Pixie Awards" and messiah:studio tops the list as winner of the "Gutsy Pixie." Says Animation Magazine's Peter Plantec, "...I almost missed it because my jaded brain couldn't stand to look at one more 3D package, this one makes one hell of an entry into the market. It's a product that is uniquely useful, well thought out, and does some 3D things better than any other." And he continues, "Although it may seem hard to believe, many aspects of character animation are easier in messiah than in either Maya, Max, or SI unplugged." http://www.animationmagazine.net/ No bugs? Hrrm. Pretty close and definitely getting there. http://www.projectmessiah.com/ Or, for those looking for a bit more in their package http://www.maxon.net/ virtually bug free. It animates, it renders, it models. What more could you want? What do you mean you wanted dirt cheap?

I agree with you Fyrespirit, the Daz PTB will likely have thought of things that won't even occur to us and are intelligent enough to know what they can and can't do. My main reason for responding like I did was because of the "poser 4 compatible" requests. It can't be, it's not allowed to be, it must be different." Now whether someone writes a conversion utility is another matter. 3DExploration converts between most of the 3dmesh formats, but it costs lots of money - probably because of licensing to use those formats. For Daz to use the Curious files, cr2, pp2, etc etc etc, they need to purchase the rights to do so from Curious Labs - that's done either as a license or in the cost of the SDK (software developers kit) which comes with a license. I don't see Curious being too happy about Daz having that facility. Sorry I just don't see it happening under the current circumstances. As for the file formats, they belonged to curious labs right back from when they first started using them. Poser 1 or 2 or 3... I'm only familiar with them from version 3. Each application uses it's own format - no matter how similar it may be to others the structure and naming must be different. Daz could use a text format, provided the structure was significantly different to a cr2 format and they can call it anything they want. There's a good reason all the other applications around use their own formats. And why there are standards across the board such as 3ds, obj, dxf that pretty much all applications can read. A conversion utility within the month? Quite probably. But, Curious do have the option of killing that, same as they've since been enforcing ownership of the word "Poser" and preventing secondary apps from using it. It's currently a strange situation where one of the players in this field is getting a little more heavy handed than they've been before. Nothing wrong with that, it's just protecting business assets, but it makes things a little sticky for developers. To be honest, if Daz convert their own stock over to the new format for their own system it would be quite a bonus for anyone interested in that option. Though I'm not sure how they'd recoup the costs of doing that. Most people I think would be very unhappy indeed if they had to purchase those files all over again, and it would hurt Daz's venture into applications to ignore that. Could figure developers carry their figures over to the new format and re-release them? Yes, but again, would they charge for the conversion. I see NO poser figures carrying IK chaining and compatibility with any other application out there - except a few from PhilC for Avatar Lab. Who's converted for Cinema, Lightwave, Max etc. Those who wanted that nagged for it and Curious gave them ProPack. If there is sufficient similarity between the structures, Curious might have a case to fight - and I'm positive they'd do it if only for the chance of "kompensayshun" There are pitfalls and problems laced throughout this and I'm pretty damn glad I don't have to navigate through them, but I wanted to at least start explaining from my point of view the problems associated with "Poser" compatibility. For Daz to be protected from legal action their app can't be poser compatible not without a world of hurt for someone. Even secondary developers must be careful. Because while Curious may well be struggling, and there might not be much life left in the company, they'll fight all that more bitterly to stay alive. Can they stop people writing applications to convert their files? Yes, and within the law. If they haven't licensed it, they can kill it at any time. It's all speculation on my part, but I'm nervous of people asking for things that can't be provided and then shouting because they didn't get it. I felt the same way about the demands on the wish lists for Poser 5 - people asked for the earth and look what they got... This is similar - people are asking for something they can't have - Poser compatibility. Without at least a small conversation on this, some people won't understand why they didn't get what they wanted. At least starting the conversation gets it discussed by people who may or may not know what they're talking about (I've been hoping someone who knows will chip in - because I'm playing guessing games here) LOL Honestly. I don't know precisely what can and can't be done, only what I've read around the forums, and what I've gleaned myself from other sources. The two companies involved will know better what they can and can't do. But I can't help being concerned by people asking for something like the ability to swap between the programs using the same file types when they just can't have that. Tools, features, functions fine. What the heck, we've had some fantastical requests in Poser 5 wishlists - some of which were answered, however badly. But compatibility with another program is a whole different ballgame to feature wishes. On that note. I really would like the Daz app to do something Poser has never done. Let me use the much smaller and more compact 3ds format for characters and other models - retaining the 3ds mapping co-ordinates. Simply because there are SO MANY 3ds models that could be animated it'd be real nice not to have to convert to the bloated object format all the time. Imagine porting in a robot, car or spacecraft or whatever in 3ds and being able to set up a boning/skeleton structure and animation with that instead of all the work needed currently to convert it over to something Poser understands. Now THAT would be something I think - certainly more in line with other applications and offering much better compatibility across the board.

That depends. Daz already have the morph information for their own files (Mike, Vicky, Steph, Mil Kids), other content providers I'm afraid would probably be pretty much on their own as they have been so far. Jim Burton, DaCort, Traveller, all create their own morphs for their characters. Again, you don't need to strip this information from the cr2 as it's already held in the cr2 in obj format. If you look inside a morphed cr2 you'll see a whole bunch of geom lines. The text information of the morph is just embedded in the text of the cr2. A simple text editor will strip those. Quite honestly Daz would be foolish to create an animation program and then NOT convert their own files over to it, including morphs. Other providers of characters such as those I've mentioned may well be on their own same as they have been with poser. As for decompiling Poser. Reverse engineering of the program is specifically prohibited. If Curious Labs could prove that someone had decompiled their app and written one around that code, they'd go ballistic and you'd end up in court again. The big bonus for this sort of thing is that if you create content for the program you get a pretty good feel for how it works and does stuff. But if you look at the massive number of other animation programs, it's no real mystery. No need to decompile Poser (honestly, who'd want to, you might just get a bunch of poser's bugs thinking they're valid code)... Yes it is done in some businesses. But there are some things worth decompiling, and some things that aren't. :) I agree with you, Daz can't place their future in the hands of an unstable company. CL have had problems over the last two years - the attempt to gain extra revenue from the Warez Amnesty last year and the admittance of cash flow problems this year is evidence of that. In an industry as volatile and unforgiving as software and as dynamically changing as CGI, that's a very dangerous position to be in. As to your last comment. Yes, Daz HAVE stated that they're creating an animation and rendering program that bears some resemblance to Poser. Heck any animation/render package bears some semblance. That information is available at Poserpros (www.poserpros.com) in the general discussion forum, in the 61 page long thread mentioned earlier. They've not gone apeshit advertising like Curious Labs did in their "California Dreaming" thread because the app most likely isn't ready yet and is either still in testing or has yet to reach testing. I doubt they'll make the same mistake as CL and hype the program too early but probably will hype it worse than Christmas when it's close to release. Usually people learn from other's mistakes. Some don't. :) It's the limitation of only providing Poser content that's been limiting Daz's growth. I believe they stated once that they were under contract when they broke away from Zygote NOT to produce or develop content that would conflict with Zygote's production line. They have to my knowledge honoured that and built a strong reputation as Poser providers. Now I guess they can expand their horizons and are doing so by buying in software (Mimic), probably programmers, and developing their own end solution. Steve Cooper once said that Curious Labs developed other software (Avatar Lab, Pro Pack) because they didn't want to be a one trick pony. I should imagine that very much the same thoughts went through the Daz PTB as well. Allowing also that Poser 4 has been with us for several years, it would be foolish indeed to rely on another company for the future of your own - especially one so slow to update and apparently lacking. I think that fairly applies to Curious Labs as well. Previously Zygote (now Daz) provided the content for Poser. Curious Labs have chosen (by using RDNA) not to have all their eggs in one basket. Not a foolish decision at all - if they'd produced a stable enough application to do it. Unfortunately their market share has probably taken a beating with this release. We have yet to see how badly. If they survive, then there will be some competition. Something we've never seen at this level. The pro-level market is filled with competitors but there are none here at the hobby/pro-am level. Should be interesting if nothing else.

I just hope the DAZ app will use plain text data files Yeah, that would be nice. Nothing like hand editing a cr2 to get something to work, or find out what happens when you connect part b to part d and turn dial e. :) Actually I do agree with this. The plain text format of the cr2 is such a bonus for editing and changing stuff around that simply can't be done in the program itself that it'd be pretty boring without it. OK, lots of other apps don't use plain text and are probably faster as a result, but they're not so much fun in a editor. :) Cr2Edit, Cr2 Editor, morph manager, mover and all the other utilities have made Poser content creation almost bearable. It'd be a shame to lose all that functionality.

But we know what their plans are. Curious Labs have released Poser 5 and intend getting their foot in the door of content provision by proxy by tying in with Renderosity and unannounced "other sites", taking a rake off the top. Daz already provide content and are getting in on the application side of things. What's there to find out? Neither of them are going to tell "us" their business plans nor reveal "in company" secrets like on bloody Oprah. Neither of them are in charge of millions of pissed off people in a foreign country. And quite frankly what did Barabra Walters achieve? Last I checked those two particular countries were still pissed at each other. Work out their problems? See above. Curious Labs are getting in on the content provision. Daz are getting into applications. You don't "work out" something like that. You compete, and hopefully kill off the competition. It's called business or capitalism whichever you prefer. :) Hehe. Live chat? Here at Renderosity the new partner of CL)? Those two? ROTFLMAO You'd be better off hiring Dr. Seuss to talk to them. Fun? I can think of better fun to have with a roll of barbed wire and two hand grenades. :)

'cause he's from the bad old days. that gets deference ROTFLMAO I'm sorry Poppi, but I reckon you're wrong there. I know of several people who would be more than joyous to see Jack kidnapped by aliens and removed permanently from the face of the planet. The only deference he gets here and at other sites is that he's not shy of saying "Oi, that's not fair." :) Wow, special deference for Jack at 'rosity. I'll bet the owners are spinning in horror at that one. LOL

Actually untrue. They don't need an app to strip object information as that is contained in the object file in the geometries folder - all they need to do is import that, or read the object information. But it's not the object that makes a figure poseable or conforming. That requires a lot of parameters, including but not limited to rotation, fall off zones, virtual positioning in 3dspace etc. etc. That information cannot be automatically created in a program, it requires, nay "needs" user input. Try importing a figure into Poser 4 made with a PIF file - and see how well it works. That's where the fun starts. That's where the problems also start. In order for a poser figure to retain not just it's appearance (object file) but it's useability (cr2), the set-up and parameters that make it poseable must also be interpreted. That would require importing Curious Labs protected file structures. It's possible it could be done inside the law as given and inside the EULA structure of Poser 4, but "I" don't know how, I'm not a programmer. However, I would be extremely nervous of screwing around with a file format and structure that belongs to another company without that company's permission, and I can see no way at all that Curious Labs would give that permission to Daz allowing them to compete directly in a market that Curious Labs have had a monopoly in for several years.

Thanks Jcleaver, I couldn't find the link to thread at the Eon forum and wasn't aware that Lynne had posted here.