Tim: We did actually get some level of depth of field in P5. I won't say that it's great, because I haven't had a chance to explore all aspects of the new renderer and camera options yet. Hopefully, we can get these tools working as quickly as possible so that the animators have something new to work with. I'll even cross the bridge and say that the motion blurring is a little goofy, but it has potential, too, I think. I wasn't trying to be patronizing. I'm sorry I came across that way. I really do have high hopes for this product, and think it has enormous potential. While Poser 4 offered very little funcionality over P3, the difference in what we see in the galleries is incredible. P5 will allow us, in 3 months, 6 months, a year, to be progressing yet again farther than we ever could imagine possible from this moment. Another option I would consider is talking to others in the animation community who might be capable of writing a plugset for Poser to handle walk design and motion handling. It worked for Mimic, after all. It might seem outrageous for me to stand here and suggest we look at third party developers for full plug sets, but I think they'd give us an open ear. Reiss-Studio with Poser to Maya, Mental Ray, Cebas Final Render, and more are all examples of long needed plugs developed from third party sources because of community desire. So why not give it a shot? Paul

Much better approach, Tim. Now that I can hear what you're saying without anger, I can certainly understand you better. The core functionality of Poser is a tough beast to consider though. What I said about the lights I meant. Sure, they're limited. People want limited in this case, because dealing with a twenty-three hour render due to overlapping volumetrics would be hell for most Poser users. But let's talk about the walk designer. I've never used it. Most people don't. It really does suck that the people who rely on that portion of the program seem to have been overlooked. But now lets consider what our options are. We can ask Steve Cooper and Curious Labs to prioritize upgrading the walk designer for a future patch. We can put out calls for Python Scripters to look into smoothing it out. We can experiment between your machine and mine to see if there's a problem somewhere that we might be overlooking. Does any of these solutions sound amenable? Paul

Tim, as for it shipping it with bugs, I just gotta say, if it didn't ship when it did, it never would. I'd much rather have a buggy app than no app at all. We've waited so long for this, for CL to crumble at this moment would have been horrible, and the wait would go on for another year, maybe two. I can respect Steve's honesty. With the issues with Avatar Lab and the long development cycle, I imagine that even now Curious Labs is not rock solid financially. Personally, I'd rather see them developing Poser 6 than to let it fall to Corel or Adobe. I'm not saying you can't get upset. I know there are probably a lot of things about the program that might frustrate you, but tearing down the forum walls in rage won't fix that. We have a lot of eductated people here who can teach each other. We have Python scripters who might be willing to attempt fixing the walk designer. We have options. As a community, it does us no good to tear at a product like wolves. It's fine to say you're unhappy, and I can respect that. I just hate to see you unwilling to approach these problems with an open mind and an open heart. It sets you well away from the community that will support you to no end. Paul

I don't think Tim's trying to stir shit, Val. I think he's just pissed off and frustrated and needs to take a break, smoke a bowl, and chill for a bit. I have no idea what set tim off, and I know that if I've been working hard on something and can't get it to work properly, I can get childish and pound my fists and scream, too. Usually it just makes people think I'm an ahole. I don't want to think that tim's an ahole. I'd rather just believe he's frustrated and needs a few minutes to calm down stop ranting. Paul

And for the record, tim, I'm not argueing out of any desire to defend curious labs, I'm argueing because I read most of your posts, I like your work, and I hate to see you acting like a half-dozen other people who feel the incessant need to freak out and publically decry their rage. It's infantile, and you're better than that. So can we please now start calmly discussing your issues with an open mind, and maybe find ways to make you happy with the software you've paid for? Paul

"The real kick in the pants is, they released such a bug-ridden pile of crap just to get it out the door. That should infruriate EVERYONE. Even those who don't mind that it's the same old P4 with some new widgets slapped on." Dude, I'm not gonna bother. If you're that pissed off, call and ask for a refund. The fact is, most of us don't have the bugs you're talking about. In fact, I haven't had a hang wedge or crash yet. Not saying it doesn't happen, but, hell, it's a very few people making a lot of noise and expecting the rest of us who are incredibly happy with the program to stop enjoying it. Screw that. I'm sorry you've got issues. I don't. Most don't. So stop making it out to be like Curious Labs is persectuing us and ruining the product. Poser 5 is the biggest evolution of this franchise ever. Those 3rd party apps you keep dwelling on cost 500 dollars or more, by themselves, so I'd say you're getting a deal. As for the manual, I've personally already got two CL - to - English translations out there in three days. You call them tutorials. Kiera has a couple, as do many others. In other words, get a grip. There's no need to fly off the handle and scream bloody murder. If the program doesn't work for you, fine. It won't work for everyone. Go buy May, Soft|Image, Lightwave, 3ds, or some other app that suits your needs. Personally, I'll stick with P5 and 3ds max together, because for what I want to accomplish, they are more than enough by far. And I'm currently finding Poser 5 vastly easier to learn and use than 3ds max was when I first picked it up. Paul

Want links, Questor? =D And as another point, what other company pays their employees to go to these forums and cater to our whiny asses? Paul

I get the idea that you're looking to bitch, and that's ok. But the fact is, this software is a godsend. First of all, the interface is XML and SKINNABLE. Gee whiz, captain, that means we can rewrite the interface to suit our needs, and even optimize it if we want... hrm... maybe they should have marketed on that. The lighting's simplistic, and lacks in some respects, but Poser users don't want Mental Ray lighting capabilities. Hell, people bitch about the speed now ( and it's still vastly faster than Bryce, Mental Ray, et. al. ), how do you think they'd feel waiting around for GI? "NEW! Nodal Shaders -- But your on your own as to how they work." Yeah... well... umm... learning how things work is part of being an artist and animator. Bitching about something being too deep and hard to learn won't gain you points in my book. I'm sliding right into the materials set up, and we already have a few artists producing brilliant works with them after only a few days... Feel free to rant, bitch, moan, and exclaim. I don't care. But, I'm sorry, I paid a few grand for 3ds max with Mental Ray, so implying that you didn't get your money's worth is just limited perspective. Take a deep breath and calm down, and you'll see that I'm right on this. Three weeks ago, people were wandering around this forum going, "It's the greatest thing on earth!" and having religious experiences. They were taking photographs of Poser 5 going into their CD trays... WTF? You can't blame Curious Labs for not selling you Soft|Image. And the worst part is, through all the moaning now I see people putting images together that will soon be Final Fantasy Movie level quality, so I highly doubt that the software, for a few hundred bucks, is really the problem here. Paul

I'm pretty upset, too. I mean, I figured that for a few hundred bucks they'd include, at the very least, true motion capture functionality, ai joint tracking, and one of those cool suits with all the sensor balls... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!?!?!?! Dude, seriously. You're an animator, and if you've been at it this long then the walk designer's hang ups aren't going to kill you. Use it to set up your general animation and tweak, then go on to the fun dynamics the physics engine, etc. and stop freaking out. Don't think I don't hate the software, though... I am pissed! I got my software and noticed a "glitch" right away. Inside the CD cover it says, "DO NOT LOOSE THIS." I mean, wtf?! They were developing all this time and didn't check a dictionary?! I'm not sure I can bother using any software, no matter how advanced, if they have a typo in the packaging material... Paul

No need to parent the object to the wind. At first I thought it was necessary as well, but I proved myself wrong while playing with amplitude and cloth density. ;) Paul

Thanks, Bobosaur... my question actually got answered via IM or I would have checked back sooner. Basically what I was trying to determine was the purpose of the "Add Keyframe" function is Poser automatically sets a keyframe the instant I alter anything within a numbered scene. In Max, I use splines to set up paths and the control points are keyed to timing, but they don't require an actual "keyed" frame to manipulate. The path steps are simply keyed to the key frames you set. Basically I'm just now taking a first look at the way Poser handles things. All of the dynamics are, of course, a funtion of time, so, there's no reason to not learn how Poser looks at timed sequence and interpolation, and very good reason to learn about it very well, even for still artists. Paul

You have to check "use background shader" in the render options. Thanks go to Kiera for that answer, btw. Paul

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=873651

Here's the deal, chief. There's no difference between Poser 4 conforming clothing and Poser 5 conforming clothing. same stuff. What you can do is take, say, Posette's shirt, and take it into P5. Scale it up to roughly fit over whatever character you want, be it Victoria, Judy, Mike, whatever, as long as it covers all parts. Export it as an obj, getting rid of all groups, etc. Then bring it back in, clothify, and drape. it will then drape against the character just like real clothing. It will take practice to keep it from being too baggy or too tight, but that will far outweigh the need to buy 500 articles of clothing for every different figure and body shape on the market. ;) Paul

In that case, a question pertaining not only to P5, but P4 as well. Why is keyframing a necessity? In Poser, when I move to a frame and change anything at all, it seems to re-key the animation. In max it doesn't work like this. So basically, what does actually establishing the frame as a "key frame" do in poser? Paul