Incredibly the Walk Designer is STILL utterly USELESS!! It has the potential to be such a powerful tool, but did CL bother to fix its glaring deficiencies from Poser 4? Heck no! Unless you are doing the tamest of walks which basically can be interpreted as leaving all of the settings at, or close to, default it simply does not work properly. You get LEG SPAZZ.

This is something I have complained about on R'osity for years, and written to (and called) Curious Labs about LONG before P5 was under development. There is no excuse for not fixing this, and a great many other things.

Here is an animation from a long time ago when I was complaining about it back then. And here is an animation using P5 and Don now. Geeeee-wilikers! What an improvement! (And yes, I am loading the proper CR2s in the Walk Des. Window.)

All I can say is, THIS IS PATHETIC. (That and a LOT of other things.)

Fuming (obviously) Tim

Well if you want it fixed you should write a civil letter to the tech address explaining how to repeat the bug. Step1, Step2 etc.. Now is the time. -Jeff

Shake a leg, Donny .... Hey, donny, you got something in your pants ??? I'm sorry, man, that's just terrible.... One of my main bitches with software companies is the fact they don't fix bugs, even when they release an update. I'm not sure there's a real good excuse for it either... You usually here something like not enough time, too much code change or a full rewrite, etc...IMO, if an entire rewrite is warranted, bring it on. If they can't do it, maybe reduce the price of the app and at least make mention of the problem...up front honesty.

I know, a pretty childish title for the thread. And yes, I know I have been somewhat critical of this release already although with all the bugs, who hasnt but the most blindly loyal.

But more than the NEW bugs, what really bothers me is what I have learned Poser 5 really is it is Poser 4 -- with ALL its old bugs and poor design and interface flaws with some 3rd-part gee-whizz apps slapped on top.

Granted there is a lot to be excited about, and as a user of Poser since version 2, I very much like Poser. I mean dynamic clothing and hair is wonderful, especially as an animator. And the face room can be a very powerful (and fun!) tool.

However, it is entirely frustrating to have a product that was supposedly going to be re-coded from the ground up only to rapidly realize this is utterly untrue. Its also doubly disheartening to have a piece of software you love be so close to being a wonder-product, only to have the development company totally fail you and the community which has supported it so well.

Hopefully, all of the interface bugs will be cleared up in the next patch. Unfortunately, a patch will not save a program that still incorporates all of the old problems from Poser 4. Whats worse is, not all of these 3rd party add-ons are even implemented properly. Or is that the interface is so poorly done that it prevents them from performing adequately?

I'm sorry CL and those who feel quite differently about the new release, but even at $149, I feel very taken for granted. And I can't imagine a lot of others do not as well. This has been building up for some time, and as I said, seeing that the futility of the Walk Designer had not even been corrected, released the floodgates of frustration. I haven't even touched on the disappointment many have expressed about FireFLAW, the numerous bugs, etc. To put it simply ... it is very disheartening.

It looks like you've got IK on and it's simply moving the feet. Is IK on? Does that make a difference in Walk Designer? I haven't used it much but don't recall having had this as a problem any of the times I've messed with it.

I'm pretty upset, too. I mean, I figured that for a few hundred bucks they'd include, at the very least, true motion capture functionality, ai joint tracking, and one of those cool suits with all the sensor balls... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!?!?!?! Dude, seriously. You're an animator, and if you've been at it this long then the walk designer's hang ups aren't going to kill you. Use it to set up your general animation and tweak, then go on to the fun dynamics the physics engine, etc. and stop freaking out. Don't think I don't hate the software, though... I am pissed! I got my software and noticed a "glitch" right away. Inside the CD cover it says, "DO NOT LOOSE THIS." I mean, wtf?! They were developing all this time and didn't check a dictionary?! I'm not sure I can bother using any software, no matter how advanced, if they have a typo in the packaging material... Paul

Jeff: I have written tech support, as I said, and I have called them about the problem in the past. I am nothing BUT civil when I communicate with a company (up until a certain point anyway). You attract more bees with honey ... has been my life-philosophy. But I feel it is wasted time (and/or breath) ... they have yet to implement any of the changes or bug fixes I have requested for Poser 4. Why should I think they would bother to do so now? For the sake of what is right, and for there own bottom line, I hope they do. Boba: Yes, it does not seem to matter if I turn IK on or off in the Walk Designer. Someone mentioned this (way back when ... could have been JeffH) and it did not work then. Thanks, Tim

Just to name a few of the holdovers from Poser 4:

• Walk-Designer Flaw (witnessed above)
• No REAL UNDO and/or multiple levels of undo (preposterous)
• No 3D Hardware OpenGL support for the interface (ditto)
• Same anemic, non-standard, and out-dated interface
• Still no mouse wheel support (dated interface related)
• Still no right-click support (ditto)
• Still can not see frames beyond 999 in any of the animation palettes
• Still does not use the rendered document window when adding to the library
• Still can only resize windows from bottom right corner (dated interface related)
• No minimize functions (dated interface related)

Im sure some others would care to add to the list, but these are some of the most glaring and frustrating on my list.

I will echo the sentiment I have found of many others: "What WERE they doing for the past three years?" Besides licesning 3rd-party plug-ins and slapping them on a Poser 4 interface with a marginally updated library system.

-Tim

Dave: That's the thing ... they supposedly were "building it from the ground up" ... and thus the three years. What a total load of crap. I've held my tongue about it since the release, but as I said, I just feel misled, very disappointed, and frustrated. Entropic: You're right, I can ... and I use Lifeforms a LOT, but it sure would have made my life easier if I could do a simple jog or run within Poser for a change. WHY have the WD if it's going to create useless animations? It's a waste of code and everyone's time. There are a lot of things you can "work around" in Poser. Things I have been working around since version 3. But the point is, a good many of these things I shouldn't have to take 10-20 steps, just because Poser has STILL not been properly coded. They list these features in all their propaganda .. and that's part of what we are paying for ... and, sadly, we're simply not getting it. The box should say: "NEW! Walk Designer -- well it kinda works." "NEW! Face Room -- Comes close to being useful, but with low-res texturemaps, awkward controls, no way to import or save heads directly, limited morph dials and character compatibility, we really half-assed it!." "NEW! FIREFLY Render Engine -- Well, we gave it a fast name anyway." "NEW! Nodal Shaders -- But your on your own as to how they work." "Redesigned from the ground up -- Well, kind of ... we basically bought some 3rd part plugins for the new rooms, than haphazardly slapped them into our totally untouched, and historically lacking, Poser 4 interface." "NEW! Simplified lighting ... Why bother with those complex and useless omni and volumetric lights, when you can have the straightforward PoserBall light setup?" Ok, I'm getting silly. You get the idea. -Tim

entropic wrote: at the very least, true motion capture functionality, ai joint tracking, and one of those cool suits with all the sensor balls You mean this ISNT included? damm, now Im pissed too. lol BT

I get the idea that you're looking to bitch, and that's ok. But the fact is, this software is a godsend. First of all, the interface is XML and SKINNABLE. Gee whiz, captain, that means we can rewrite the interface to suit our needs, and even optimize it if we want... hrm... maybe they should have marketed on that. The lighting's simplistic, and lacks in some respects, but Poser users don't want Mental Ray lighting capabilities. Hell, people bitch about the speed now ( and it's still vastly faster than Bryce, Mental Ray, et. al. ), how do you think they'd feel waiting around for GI? "NEW! Nodal Shaders -- But your on your own as to how they work." Yeah... well... umm... learning how things work is part of being an artist and animator. Bitching about something being too deep and hard to learn won't gain you points in my book. I'm sliding right into the materials set up, and we already have a few artists producing brilliant works with them after only a few days... Feel free to rant, bitch, moan, and exclaim. I don't care. But, I'm sorry, I paid a few grand for 3ds max with Mental Ray, so implying that you didn't get your money's worth is just limited perspective. Take a deep breath and calm down, and you'll see that I'm right on this. Three weeks ago, people were wandering around this forum going, "It's the greatest thing on earth!" and having religious experiences. They were taking photographs of Poser 5 going into their CD trays... WTF? You can't blame Curious Labs for not selling you Soft|Image. And the worst part is, through all the moaning now I see people putting images together that will soon be Final Fantasy Movie level quality, so I highly doubt that the software, for a few hundred bucks, is really the problem here. Paul

*** I see people putting images together that will soon be Final Fantasy Movie level quality*** ROTFLMFAO

Want links, Questor? =D And as another point, what other company pays their employees to go to these forums and cater to our whiny asses? Paul

Walk-Designer Flaw (witnessed above) No REAL UNDO and/or multiple levels of undo (preposterous) No 3D Hardware OpenGL support for the interface (ditto) Same anemic, non-standard, and out-dated interface Still no mouse wheel support (dated interface related) Still no right-click support (ditto) Still can not see frames beyond 999 in any of the animation palettes Still does not use the rendered document window when adding to the library Still can only resize windows from bottom right corner (dated interface related) No minimize functions (dated interface related) Okay, a few of these: Walk Designer, as far as I can tell, was never designed to be an end-all, be-all sort of tool but a starting point, which is pretty much like saying Don and Judy might have pleasant personalities, but damn you need to work on them to make them look presentable. Same thing with WD, I'm afraid, which, IMHO, is how it should be. Multiple undos? Poser is a memory hog to begin with. Why would you burden it down with multiple undos that will just sop up more memory resources? The interface doesn't strike me as being "anemic". It's different, but then so are the interfaces for Bryce and Amapi. They all work. Would you rather have drop down menus and tool boxes? Sorry, not me. I like the way this is set up. Mouse wheel and right-click support? Hello, some of us are still on Macs and use only one mouse click. I'm not saying that should drive the changes, but not everyone has a mouse wheel either. Need it that badly? Write it into your mouse parameters. Minimize function? Piffle. I can go to finder and pull down to "Hide Poser", and it's minimized just fine. Sorry, but few of these strike me as reasons to just say "screw it".

Seeing as many other companies have their own forums and the poser forum is essentially a pointless visiting place for other companies your comment is redundant. And just as a point. Curious Labs doesn't pay their staff to come here, they pay their staff, coming here is simply PR and business practice. They ain't fuzzy huggy wuggy buddies. Links? You can give links to "Final Fantasy quality renders". Made WITH and IN Poser 5? Yeah, right sure. With the poser lighting set up, cameras, figures, textures? Wait while I swallow my "gullible twonk" pill.

I'd venture to say less than 1% of the users are interested in re-skinning it, or even have the know-how. We just want the interface to work like a normal interface. As I said, I was getting silly. Yeah, I'm disappointed about the mediocre lighting still present, but can I render it in C4DXL or Vue ... sure. Sure, learning how things work is part of it. But the manual (and with all due respect to Anthony ... I think he was under tremendous time pressure) seems to equate to one of these deals: "Widget Temporal Analysis Toggle: Toggles the Widget's Temporal Analysis" Sorry, there's learning ... and then there is needing a supplemental manual. (CL is not the first to do this, but it doesn't make it right or any less frustrating.) Sorry, but the whole "it's not that expensive argument" is deplorable. What's more, there are cheaper programs that incorporate the CORE, BASIC interface features I mentioned above. I've said it before, and I'll say it again ... even the crappy COOL3D has OpenGL hardware support, full mouse support, multiple UNDOs, etc. These are basic items that should not have been overlooked. -Tim

P5 is about what I expected for $130. I like it, but in saying that, I accept that it will have (sometimes major) limitations. The best thing Curious Labs did in their entire corporate history in my opinion was to open up Poser to other 3D apps. THAT's where the power of Poser lies. I hope they continue doing that, otherwise this newest version will lose a lot of loyal customers. The program itself is, and pretty much always has been, virtually useless for standalone rendering.

The real kick in the pants is, they released such a bug-ridden pile of crap just to get it out the door. That should infruriate EVERYONE. Even those who don't mind that it's the same old P4 with some new widgets slapped on. And no, not all software companies do that ... give me a break! Most DO NOT. Sure all software ships with bugs for the most part. But not bugs of this magnitude that stifle their very ability to work. -Tim

I'm not saying you shouldn't rant, and a lot of what you say makes sense tim---but I guess I've been bludgeoned into near coma like every other software user on the planet. You oughta hear my wife piss and moan about Photoshop upgrades---makes me never want to touch the damn thing!

Virtual: Utter nonesense from you as usual ...I think you just like to Troll on me big time. But I can't resist just a couple of these preposterous notions ... 1. Walk Designer as a starting point?? LOL! It's not much of a starting point if I have to go in and re-key every part of the damn animation. 2. Memory-schmemory. So are a lot of other programs, yet they still have manage to have USER SELECTEBLE (HELLO! KEY WORD!) levels of UNDO. Hell, if your overpriced Mac costs so much you can't afford a decent amount memory, make it one level of UNDO, or disable it alltogether. I'd just like to see ONE REAL LEVEL of UNDO.

"The real kick in the pants is, they released such a bug-ridden pile of crap just to get it out the door. That should infruriate EVERYONE. Even those who don't mind that it's the same old P4 with some new widgets slapped on." Dude, I'm not gonna bother. If you're that pissed off, call and ask for a refund. The fact is, most of us don't have the bugs you're talking about. In fact, I haven't had a hang wedge or crash yet. Not saying it doesn't happen, but, hell, it's a very few people making a lot of noise and expecting the rest of us who are incredibly happy with the program to stop enjoying it. Screw that. I'm sorry you've got issues. I don't. Most don't. So stop making it out to be like Curious Labs is persectuing us and ruining the product. Poser 5 is the biggest evolution of this franchise ever. Those 3rd party apps you keep dwelling on cost 500 dollars or more, by themselves, so I'd say you're getting a deal. As for the manual, I've personally already got two CL - to - English translations out there in three days. You call them tutorials. Kiera has a couple, as do many others. In other words, get a grip. There's no need to fly off the handle and scream bloody murder. If the program doesn't work for you, fine. It won't work for everyone. Go buy May, Soft|Image, Lightwave, 3ds, or some other app that suits your needs. Personally, I'll stick with P5 and 3ds max together, because for what I want to accomplish, they are more than enough by far. And I'm currently finding Poser 5 vastly easier to learn and use than 3ds max was when I first picked it up. Paul

Awwww, hell ... let's just debunk all of 'em : 3. When I talk about the interface, I'm giving the wrong impression for sure. I'm not talking about the positioning balls, or the buttons, etc. I actually have grown to like those, as I have the one's in Bryce. I'm talking about the core API ... it should be a standard Windows/Mac interface. 4. "Hello, some of us are still on Macs and use only one mouse click." Hello? Well that's your bassakwards fault, not the huge percentage of people on Windows (and even some on Macs who go 3rd party) who realize the powerful and effecient functionality this offers. And no wheel support is doubly-moronic. If you're not using a wheel-mouse in a browser, you are so completely clueless, it's sad. I don't know about you, but some of my libraries are huge ... I'd like the DEFACTO-STANDARD way (for 95% of the computing population) of scrolling through them. 5. Sorry, I wasn't clear on the minimize. I can minimize the program with a keystroke, or right click, or one of many other ways (since I'm on a Window machine). I'm talking about minimizing and resizing windows WITHIN Poser 5, like you can with literally every other application on the planet. I'm asking for industry standard things, that come in software MUCH less complicated and MUCH less expensive.

Okay yeah the UI is not windows based..it was created for Mac originally and ported to Windows. Context menus and wheel mouse scrolling support would be nice. Those old Mac style dialog boxes need to go :-)

And for the record, tim, I'm not argueing out of any desire to defend curious labs, I'm argueing because I read most of your posts, I like your work, and I hate to see you acting like a half-dozen other people who feel the incessant need to freak out and publically decry their rage. It's infantile, and you're better than that. So can we please now start calmly discussing your issues with an open mind, and maybe find ways to make you happy with the software you've paid for? Paul

Timoteo, sorry, but all it sounds like is you're being a bit childish at this point. I don't have P5. I dn't know what bugs it has, but I'm sure there are a few. But it's a frickin' bottom-end 3D app, not Softimage or Maya, don't expect DaVinci with a $2.00 kids crayon set. And you'd be amazed what can be squeezed out of the Poser 4 renderer, let alone the new one. Finally you just accused Entropic of trolling you. Sorry, but from a neutral 3rd party perspective, it looks like YOU are doing nothing but trolling, trying to stir up matters for whatever reason.

I don't think Tim's trying to stir shit, Val. I think he's just pissed off and frustrated and needs to take a break, smoke a bowl, and chill for a bit. I have no idea what set tim off, and I know that if I've been working hard on something and can't get it to work properly, I can get childish and pound my fists and scream, too. Usually it just makes people think I'm an ahole. I don't want to think that tim's an ahole. I'd rather just believe he's frustrated and needs a few minutes to calm down stop ranting. Paul

I am not sure what everyone else expects, I have not really gotten into animation in the past but with Poser 5 I am really learning a lot more about everything related to animating materials, hair cloth and even walk or movements. But I am finding the program to encourage me to learn more by using the new features. I am not sure about the walk designer, I tend to think that this is something that is more of a convenience than critical. I thought that the best way to animate characters was frame by frame...?...my biggest problems so far have been operator related. I am really happy with the stuff they did put in, the multi level file access; the hair and shaders...maybe it is because I am not looking for a lightwave type program or a 3dmax, I have enough trouble learning truespace!!!... I really enjoy Poser 5, after a realtively short learning period the program is a lot of fun. Maybe what some really are looking for is to graduate to a high end modeling program with a lot more "plug ins" to buy...and a lot more power....and a much higher price.... looking back from Poser 2, 3 4 and now 5, wow 5 has more features.

Entropic: Not to beat it into the ground, but I'd just like to say, I don't think it is just a FEW people. I dind't even think I was one of them until I started really trying to use the software beyond the FACE ROOM.

Also, Steve has admitted it shipped with significant bugs because "they needed to be paid." I appreciate his honesty, and like him personally, but that is a little more than disturbing.

As I said, I've bitched and moaned on the UNDO and some other pet-peeves from the start. But when I saw the WD issue was still there, along with all the others, well that convinced me they had certainly not rewritten Poser from the ground up.

-Tim

PS> Hell, I loved the Pro-Pack add-on, and thought it was a good value. I never said an unkind word about it, or P4 for that matter (other than to ask why something didn't work, or how to fix it). This release simply does not measure up to what was promised, let alone what was expected.

Valandar: For the record, I wasn't accusing Entropic (whom I respect a great deal, likewise) of Trolling. (I was speaking to Virtual, who seems to harp on me whenever the opportunity presents itself ever since I presented some facts about the Mac platform he didn't appreciate hearing.) "But it's a frickin' bottom-end 3D app," Same old argument. AGAIN, a majority of the complaints I have voiced here are about BASIC interface features I mentioned above, that are in far less expensive applications.

Tim, as for it shipping it with bugs, I just gotta say, if it didn't ship when it did, it never would. I'd much rather have a buggy app than no app at all. We've waited so long for this, for CL to crumble at this moment would have been horrible, and the wait would go on for another year, maybe two. I can respect Steve's honesty. With the issues with Avatar Lab and the long development cycle, I imagine that even now Curious Labs is not rock solid financially. Personally, I'd rather see them developing Poser 6 than to let it fall to Corel or Adobe. I'm not saying you can't get upset. I know there are probably a lot of things about the program that might frustrate you, but tearing down the forum walls in rage won't fix that. We have a lot of eductated people here who can teach each other. We have Python scripters who might be willing to attempt fixing the walk designer. We have options. As a community, it does us no good to tear at a product like wolves. It's fine to say you're unhappy, and I can respect that. I just hate to see you unwilling to approach these problems with an open mind and an open heart. It sets you well away from the community that will support you to no end. Paul

Paul: I never thought you were defending CL or any of the other things you mentioned. I simply feel ... well "hoodwinked" would be apt I suppose. It's very frustrating when you like a program like Poser as much as I do, only to have a long anticipated release correct none of the basic things you were expecting it to correct. I apologize if it seems childish, and I fully admit it is clear, unadulterated venting, ranting, and bitching. It stems from the realization that I did not receive what was promised. Sure the new features are great, some might even say revolutionary in such an affordable package. But I'd much rather have it do the things it should have been doing a long time ago that relate to CORE FUNCTIONALITY. That's all. _Tim

Much better approach, Tim. Now that I can hear what you're saying without anger, I can certainly understand you better. The core functionality of Poser is a tough beast to consider though. What I said about the lights I meant. Sure, they're limited. People want limited in this case, because dealing with a twenty-three hour render due to overlapping volumetrics would be hell for most Poser users. But let's talk about the walk designer. I've never used it. Most people don't. It really does suck that the people who rely on that portion of the program seem to have been overlooked. But now lets consider what our options are. We can ask Steve Cooper and Curious Labs to prioritize upgrading the walk designer for a future patch. We can put out calls for Python Scripters to look into smoothing it out. We can experiment between your machine and mine to see if there's a problem somewhere that we might be overlooking. Does any of these solutions sound amenable? Paul

"I see people putting images together that will soon be Final Fantasy Movie level quality, so I highly doubt that the software, for a few hundred bucks, is really the problem here." WHERE??? may i See some links to these poser5 renders?? So Far all Ive seen are "firefly" renders that look like the old P4 render engine with betterlooking hair on the figures (in some cases) NO offense but its outrageous hyperbole like that that raised poser5 expectations to pie in the sky pipe dream levels on the first place.

Thanks for you desire to help, although I must be perfectly honest, it almost seems patronizing ... but nonetheless ... We can always ask, but if history is any indicator, the request for anything of this nature will go ignored. Python is a possibility, but I would say very unlikely. I would LOVE to see someone produce a run or jog using ONLY the WD without that hiccup. However, I have issued the challenge in the past, and not one could. There are few animators (relative to still renderers), so overlooking us is nothing new for CL. They appear to be TRYING to gear Poser more and more towards animation ... a market they would be crazy to ignore in this day and age of Pixar, Final Fantasy, et. al. However, things like the Walk Designer and (another "butt-burner) the inability to animate depth of field, are frustrating for animators. Now THAT is something a master Python-scripter might be able to help with. Any takers? (I might just put that in a new -- "POSTIVE" -- post.) Thanks again for your suggestions and desire to help. -Tim

Tim: We did actually get some level of depth of field in P5. I won't say that it's great, because I haven't had a chance to explore all aspects of the new renderer and camera options yet. Hopefully, we can get these tools working as quickly as possible so that the animators have something new to work with. I'll even cross the bridge and say that the motion blurring is a little goofy, but it has potential, too, I think. I wasn't trying to be patronizing. I'm sorry I came across that way. I really do have high hopes for this product, and think it has enormous potential. While Poser 4 offered very little funcionality over P3, the difference in what we see in the galleries is incredible. P5 will allow us, in 3 months, 6 months, a year, to be progressing yet again farther than we ever could imagine possible from this moment. Another option I would consider is talking to others in the animation community who might be capable of writing a plugset for Poser to handle walk design and motion handling. It worked for Mimic, after all. It might seem outrageous for me to stand here and suggest we look at third party developers for full plug sets, but I think they'd give us an open ear. Reiss-Studio with Poser to Maya, Mental Ray, Cebas Final Render, and more are all examples of long needed plugs developed from third party sources because of community desire. So why not give it a shot? Paul

"for CL to crumble at this moment would have been horrible, and the wait would go on for another year, maybe two." Why would that be horrible? "Personally, I'd rather see them developing Poser 6 than to let it fall to Corel or Adobe." Adobe at least has a history of writing apps that work...

"Why would that be horrible?" Because I like the people at Curious Labs, and don't give a damn about the folks at Adobe or Corel. ;) I'm honest as I can be, Bear, but I won't pretend to be unbiased. ;) Paul

I was going to say the exact same thing. After Effects is godsend, and incredibly stable. Premeire 6.5 is amazing, Photoshop, Illustrator, and the list goes on. I've never met a PERFECT software developer ... but Adobe comes pretty close. From what I know of them, I like the people at CL, but that is personal and this is business. Hey, Adobe buying CL might be the best thing to happen to them and the users. It might save the principles from financial ruin. Who knows?

Honestly, though, I look at Adobe and while I will acknowledge their good points, which are many, I will also say that there is a bad point that would disturb me. They don't care about us. I think CL truly does, and I'm not saying that out of any form of naivete'. ( insert Ironbear's snicker here ). When you consider what they have added to PPP and P5, and cross check it to the community wishlists, you'll see a lot of places where we decided what would get included. sure, there are still things we asked for that we haven't seen, but there's less reason to believe Adobe would pay any attention to our desires whatsoever. Just my 2 dollars. Paul

I have been following closely all the pros/cons on P5...and will probably see some of the pros turn to cons when satisfied users hit some glitch that hasn't been uncovered yet. I am still learning P4 and will probably never get P5 because of some of the upfront probs I see...and just don't need some of the features. I agree I would have just as soon they had updated P4 at nominal cost and offered some of the hi-power stuff as addons. My big concern as to the future advancement of Poser at this point is the 'new user base'. A lot of us did not enter into the program until release 4 and it was this user base that made Poser 4 as profitable item as it became...that and the P3 users that upgraded. I see a lot of P4 users claiming they are waiting b4 upgrading so am sure new users will play the 'buyer beware' game as well. Bugs are common in new software or upgrades...hell, even Ford Motor Company doesn't always get it right the first time. But if they make the same mistakes two many times, people will gravitate to Chevrolet and a new breed of bugs. Unfortunately in the case of Poser...we have no alternative breed of bugs to try.

You've got a buck 98 in change coming. That's where we differ. I don't mistake milking the PR value of a niche market for all it's worth "caring" for it's customers. Good business yeah - until it backfires on them. "Naivete'"? Maybe. It'll do. No makey. You keep up the work of CL apologist, and I'll keep snickering. We'll cancel each other out.

"You keep up the work of CL apologist, and I'll keep snickering." I gotta try something, Bear... no one's ever gonna pay me for my art, that's for sure. ;) Paul

snicker

Tim I think some when else above suggested that you turn IK off for the walk designer. I dont get that jerkyness that you do. Did not have it in 4 or the ProPack. Just trying to help solve one of your problems. Ron

I dunno, sitting around the sidelines snickering and throwing pot-shots is somewhat weasel-like to me.

It doesn't help anything and at worst is just plain slimey.

Better to contribute to solving the problems than hindering the process.

-Jeff

Another useless thread. SIZGH!!! Q

I think you just like to Troll on me big time Pookie, I don't even know you, let alone care to troll on you. So kindly get over yourself and your silly-ass notions of self-importance, okay? Jeesh..... I'd just like to see ONE REAL LEVEL of UNDO Well, big whoop. You didn't get it. Sad. Maybe next time. I'm giving the wrong impression for sure You can certainly say that again. If you're not using a wheel-mouse in a browser, you are so completely clueless, it's sad No, I'd just consider you lazy, but that'd be my sentiment only. Wheel mice, for my money, are awkward pains in the ass. Different strokes, okay? Sorry, I wasn't clear on the minimize Gosh, like so many other things in your rush to bitch all over me. Makes me wonder who's trolling whom here. I'm asking for industry standard things, that come in software MUCH less complicated and MUCH less expensive Then go work with IT and quitcher bellyachin'.

Tim I just studied your animation. The jerking is between the last frame returning to your first frame. A looping transitional thing. You may see that as a problem but I dont. Others may. Ron

The walk path is not a finite distance. It can be lengthened or shortened. The runs,walks,struts,etc. inside the WD however ARE finite. That means if your walk path is too long in relation to your stride. The WD has to do something about it to make up the difference. In this case. It has to add a few key frames of action to make up the difference. And you get an unwanted repeated action. If you take that same animation you put in that example and cut the number of frames down from 120 to approx 80. It will not jerk anymore. And it will work just fine. ScottA

We also serve who merely stand on the sidelines and smirk. ;] shrug Best suggestion I can come up with still for "solving", is for CL to do what they stated they were doing way back and actually redesign Poser 5 into an upgrade, rather than P4 with plugins. Don't see that happening, honestly. Instead, they're putting you in the unenviable position of doing their product support in here and finding workarounds for the glitches. Which - I will NOT take away from you Jeff, doing poser tech and poser user support you do very well in here, and have been doing for multiple versions. You are very fucking good at it. I can wish they'd given you something better to work with. Oh well. Both of us will live.

I am sorely disappointed. Not as much in P5 as in the misleading title of timoteo1's thread. He concedes that it's a childish title, but given his behavior since he got P5, I expected childish. And I'm not talking about the complaints themselves, some of which seem entirely valid. I'm talking about the fact that he is lodging them in a (sorry if you didn't realize it before this thread) grating, whiny tone, on such a frequent basis that it seems entirely possible that he is spending more time complaining about P5 than using it.

And to anticipate the likely response, I recognize that some people are having so much trouble with P5 that this would not be difficult to do. However, the absence of features like a multiple undo (hell, a true single undo), which I would also appreciate, or the use of a non-standard API, simply do not require the cyber-equivalent of Munch's "The Scream."

No, my complaint is that the possible alleged problem with the Walk Designer is apparently not the last straw for timoteo1...so I will waste more time having to page past his constant complaining to get to threads I actually want to read. I only read this one because I thought I could get the champagne out to celebrate.

Would Poser would be less buggy in the hands of a more financially stable company like Adobe? Maybe, although the fact that Adobe worked with CL in developing Atosphere suggests that they don't currently have the type of staff they would need to do Poser. In all probability, they would end up hiring the current CL staff that produced the code you don't like. It might have allowed them to delay the release of P5 for more extensive beta testing, or allowed them to recall before shipment to address late-discovered non-critical bugs, but it wasn't so long ago when the number 1 complaint here was the long delay in releasing P5. Then again, there's always some who aren't happy unless they're unhappy.

But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Adobe was able to do Poser better technically. What is the price for full version of Photoshop? And the upgrades would be more frequent, more incremental, and all of them would cost at least as much as what you paid for the P5 upgrade. There are some who would not be bothered by a higher cost, but based on the rampant doomsaying on this issue before CL announced the upgrade price, I would suggest that you would lose so much of the user base that Adobe would end up discontinuing or reselling Poser after they bought it. But at least we could be treated to a lot of complaints about the cost until they did.