Poking around the forum got me this message:

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And I haven't even registered yet........

Not to mention brows that wander out past the ears like wings.

I've been texturing vases (see above), which also has nothing to do with Dawn, but it does have to with flowers.

Hair grown on the brows is always the way I prefer to go for close up renders of the face.  Don't need them painted on, don't need a separate mesh, and you can change them on the fly from mussed to groomed.

Textures are mapped to vertices, not to edges or faces, even though they can be affected by normals.  Morphing is allowed because it is vertex only, no edges or faces to be touched.  Anything with lines or polygons can be considered touching.

Actually, I disagree with the statement that you render textures.

As in photography, you render light, virtual light that bounces off meshes and textures and is modified in the process.  Never forget that light is the medium, and it is how we create and  alter light that determines the render.

Poser and DS have long been a source for inexpensive, ready made, posable content that can be exported to other 3D studios.  It's primarily the animation mechanics, expandibility, and rendering engines that prevent them from standing toe to toe with the "big boys".  But then again, that is what makes them affordable.

A rendering engine that offers true GI, lighting that is not strictly point source (soft edge shadow), with easily defined spectral character is expensive.  But it is what makes for truly realistic renderings that allows for total suspension of visual disbelief.

But Poser and DS have their uses.  First, they're great for toon, tube, and art renders that don't make a pretense of realism, in the same way that painting and sketching create appealing images as representations.  (I'm not saying that realism can't be achieved in Poser and DS, just that it's very difficult and time consuming.)  They're very good for conceptual mockups, quick and dirty sketch art like storyboarding.  Poser started off as a base poser for digital painters, and is still used that way today.  Poser and DS have always had a place in commercial art.  They're not used in Hollywood movie FX, but then people wouldn't be able to afford them if they were.  But they do have a place, always have.

I still use Poser to make humorous greeting cards, create toon posters, and the like.  It's great for that, Firefly lighting is perfectly suited for it.  I also use it to test and export content that strikes my fancy.  I even use it now and then for a serious art render in certain styles.  However, I've just about given up on making content for it. I've even dropped my commercial rigging services for a Poser based movie outfit (but that's another story that doesn't have to do with the software).  It's a pain, very fussy about importing meshes, and a lot of work, more than most other studios for the same process.  But Poser still has a definite place in my toolbox and in my workflow.  But I don't launch it on a daily basis, like I do modo (my true love).  But it doesn't gather much dust either.

So yeah, Poser and DS have their place in the 3D world.  They always have.  For every pro who looks down their nose at them, there's another who uses them.  They aren't at the top of the heap in the industry, but they aren't designed to be there.  They continue to fill their niche well.

And Dawn has the potential to be a big part of that.

Just a reminder that it's not just Poser and DS, but also Maya, Max, Lightwave, modo, C4D, Softimage, solidThinking, Houdini, Carrara, Vue, Blender, Shade, Sketchup, EIAS, Cheetah3D, Bryce, and a bunch more.  I'm sure that Dawn will be used in all of these, to one degree or another.  The either/or attitude is not becoming in the wider scheme of things.  A little perspective goes a long way.

Quote - I really dont care about the Poser vs DAZ thing. I warned people about that years ago, and no one listened. "DAZ wont abandon its base!" Uh huh, sure...

It's nice to see someone trying to go cross-platform. Honest, it is. However this genre has been pretty-girl'ed to death, folks. How many of these interchangable ladies do you really need? Sweet Jesus, enough already! By the time folks get through with this, she wont be any different from any of the countless others that preceded her. 

I'm sure she'll be amazing. But she'll also be visually predictable. And no amount of fancy, under-the-hood technology is going to change that. The renders of her will wind up looking like renders of the Vickies and Antonias and Stephanies and Barbies who preceded her.

It's just a shame that something radically new has to be wrapped up in the same tired persona.

Hi, Sean.  Good to know that you're still lurking about.  I remember the "there's no split" days very well.

Honestly, my favorite figures are made by Nursoda.

I never got that heavily into V4 because of the INJ system and the sheer headache of exporting it to modo and Lightwave.  I think I did a handful of V4 renders before I dropped it.  And I never installed DS past 2.4, if I remember correctly.  2.3 maybe.  2.2?  Somewhere in there, I threw in the towel.  (Not that I haven't seen enough hollers for help and screenshots of the more recent versions.)  After working in modo, Genesis is a yawn, nothing I haven't encountered elsewhere, just packaged differently for dial spinners.  Gen3 was the last "normal" figure set that caught my fancy.

But I have an interest in Dawn.  I think this may finally be a next step that I might actually use.  It seems to have the right specs and shouldn't be too difficult to export. At least, pre-release info has led me to hope so.  Then again, I'll rig it in modo (with the Poser dev figure as reference) and probably make most of the clothes I'll use there with my own morphs.  Not your typical buy out the store user frenzy.... I might even contribute if life permits.

The obsession with reality in a figure used in studios that are incapable of rendering reaistically because of software limitations that keep costs down seems a bit convolute.

I can tell you from experience morphing, it's generaly easier to add to than subract from a figure.  It's easier to create typical from doll than it is to create doll from typcal.

And yes, our society is commercially obsessed with beauty.  Wardrobe malfunction is now a spectator sport, because the industry is obsessed beyond sanity with the art of competition beauty.  One example of wardrobe augmentation gone wrong before the camera.  (And you thought V4 had problems with her armpits.)  Poor Eleanor.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm4093813504/nm1870434

Dawn comes without an associated history, and this is a crucial factor that other figures have not had.  So far, it has allowed hope to thrive without the stigma of past negative experiences that hurt sales and appeal.  The team is veteran, qualified, and inspires confidence.  There is a lot of dissatisfaction of those who have been in the community for many years, seeking a positive new path.  If this will ultimately make a difference in the acceptance of Dawn as a new standard by avoiding unpopular decisions by existing content houses, time will tell.

As far as compatibility, there will be those available to help see to bi-platform production happen where it is desired.  But there will always be those who just don't want to take on the learning curve of another studio for the sake of users of that software, or upgrade their hardware to be able to use it.  People make what they want to make with what they know and have. Users need to get used to the fact that if they want something that badly, they can also tackle the learning curve.

For example, I want a modo version of Dawn, and I'm willing to rig it myself in modo in order to get it.  I can tell that no one is interested in doing it for me.  Moping and crying won't get it for me.  I spent a lot of hard hours learning to do it correctly, with weight mapping, and vertex mapping for morphs.  So if you want it that badly, learn to make it yourself.  There comes a point where voting with your pocket book doesn't cut it, and you just have to fish, cut bait, or go hungry.

Expecting others to please your every whim is a fool's game.  It's just not going to happen.  Be happy with what you've got available to you and make the most of it.  And appreciate what others do for you.  Your life will be happier once you do.

Well, I guess if I want Dawn rigged in modo, I'll have to do it myself.  I think I can live with having that exclusive to myself.

It is good seeing the community actually making a concerted effort in attempting to heal the stagnating rift that started years ago, and that so many denied for so long.  I won't call this grass roots, because it's not.  Most of the key people have been around for over a decade, many who started in the 90's.  Many are the innovators, the creative, the visionaries, those who built the key elements that evolved into today's SOP.  It's good to see that the community still means something that is worth saving, despite the way that some tried to bend it to their will.

I wish Dawn much success.  May she sweep away some of the bad blood, and bring a little humility where it is needed most.  I hope the enthusiasm continues to rally and the support grows.  It's a need we all feel, because this is something we built over the years, and we don't want to see it yanked out from under us by those who feel they know better than the voice of experience.

As for me, I've lost the desire to make stuff for Poser.  (And it's no secret that I never had the desire to make stuff for DS.)  modo has my full attention now, true love.  And life is anything but stable for me right now, following a really bad year.  So I probably won't be contributing.  I won't say never, because I might make some dynamic clothing or props in modo and save as OBJ for Poser freebies.  You never know.  It's happened before.  Time will tell.

But I do appreciate seeing people I've known for quite some years come together over a solution to a problem at many levels.  I wish Dawn the best of luck, and to those who are supporting her.  It's good to see the right path being followed for a change, and I know I'm not the only one feeling it.

And I'm ready to rig Dawn in modo 7 when she comes out.

My question is that since Dawn's origin is in modo, will there be a modo version?  These days, if it doesnt lend itself to an easy transition to modo, I don't find a whole lot of interest in Poser content.  I would LOVE to see a rigged/morphed lxo of Dawn.

If you want to stick with beginning as a theme, Bud seems the obvious name to me.

Measurement described here uses a spot meter/narrow angle internal meter and an 18% reflective gray card  (rather than an incidence meter).  The ratios are exponential of the base of 2 (think binary) at the point of the subject, perpendicular to the lighting.  The ratios are often achieved with setting the distance from the subject.

1 2 4 is pretty much the standard portrait setting.  1 is the key light, the brightest.  2 is the fill and should read one f/stop dimmer.  4, the shadow fill, should be three f/stops dimmer.  In a standard range, 6 is solid black shadow, ambience too low to show detail.  This is reserved for dramatic effects and is generally shunned for most purposes.

1 3 5 is 2 and 4 f/stops difference in light reflected from the gray card.  There is less contrast, and it's a bit darker in the shadows than a 1 2 4.  1 2 5 will deliver a primary contrast as a 1 2 4, but the shadows will be deeper.

Many studios only worry about key to fill and express ratios 2:1 or 3:1, and let the shadow levels find their own with the bounce of the room as ambient.  But for changing environments, it's better to specify the shadow fill.

Google "studio lighting ratios" if you want more info, though most of it doesn't adhere to a zone system, since most use incidence meters in their examples.

 It's 12 KB/s, which relates roughly to a 100k line in comparison to the 5M capacity I have.  (I've been working at internet design and interactive server development, as well as 3D, since the early 90's, so lessons I don't need.  Transfer rate is usually in expressed in bytes, whereas BAUD capacity is usually in bits, since audio signal rate isn't octal digital.)

Renderosity is rather infamous for it's sporadic bottlenecking because of high traffic on the server complex on which it resides, so transfer rate may be quite good sometimes and absolutely horrid at others.  The least that could have been done was to choose a file server on a backbone with a dependable outflow, instead of the very iffy connection it's using now.  (I know this bandwidth syndrome well from the decade I've been here.)

My domain sits on a backbone, and there is never a router bottleneck for downloading my files like there is now at R'osity.  My direct downloads are never slow, always at a user's capacity.

All I can say is that except for Nursoda's work, I don't buy at the Marketplace any more.  And if Nursoda sold his goods elsewhere, that is where I'd buy them.  This has driven my money away.

This has created a pretty intense backlash.  Not the first, no doubt not the last.  But it's my last.  I've had enough of the business model here.  I've had enough of most of the business models in the community, because the decisions like this are not made with nearly enough foresight about the repercussions.

I'm bone tired of the lack of sensitivity by the stores.

As for naming, I catalog by what the item is, for utility searchability in scene assembly, not who made it.  That's what the read-mes are for.  Yeah, the occasional runtime.zip files needed to be renamed, but not every stinking file name had to be altered front and back.  I want all my eggs in one folder, not scattered all over the place.  Renaming files from here now is a real pain.  It has to be something very special for me to grab it here now.

As much as I'd like to get over the resentment, it's there every time I download a file.