Well since I first posted, the forums seem to have gone back to normal loading time, but the Marketplace is still slower than normal...but not as slow as it was a few days ago.  It still takes awhile for each item to load it's thumbnail pix.  Going from page to page or searching for something is an excercise in patience!

I'm using Firefox (the latest version).  I tried clearing all the normal junk out (cache, history, etc) but Renderosity still continues to load amazingly slow... like one picture element at a time slow!

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A lot of that suspicion that you and others were voicing was kind of nutty as some of it was around render times. How can you figure render times for an unbiased render? They are all different and all long, unless you use a GPU to render. It showed a deep lack of knowledge about unbiased renderers. Granted, Paolo should have addressed it more head on earlier but as he said recently, he didn't want to get bogged down in all the technical details. Some of those same folks who voiced suspicions are now happy users.
Kevin

But there was a very clear example posted (again, very early on) of two renders of an automobile, showing the difference between a Daz Studio render and one done with Reality/LuxRender.   The question of render times for those two specific renders were asked several times by at least a couple of different people.  The answers that Pret-a-3D gave were evasive, elusive and caused great suspicion.
It was a big red flag for those of us that did not want to deal with render times that take an extended overnight period!

The correct course of action, as a vendor, would have been to supply the correct render times for that particular render and let people decide for themselves if they wanted to have the kind of render take that long of a time to produce.  But instead, he was worried about "turning people off" and losing potential customers.  Honesty and full disclosure are always best when dealing with customers.

So that along with the other slightly sneaky salesman tactics were enough to cause me (and others) to go into a "Ralph Nader mode" and speak up for consumers' rights.

Maybe a bit over the top, but that's just how it felt.
Maybe I was unjustly feeling like the butt end of PT Barnum's "A sucker born every minute"?

And now, I realize if people are happy with this product, more power to them.  But I still think people should be made aware of their various choices and not feel like they have to deal with just one path to get that kind of rendering quality.

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“I'm calm, I've found my happy place and everything is beautiful and serene. SERENITY NOW!” – Good on you. Loosen the straps on your manzier, they were probably chafing.
 

BRO!

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..... I just did a render with IDL, baggins' env. sphere, vss, reflections, the works and an 800x800 render took just under 30 min with very good results so I'm not exactly waiting in line for 24-hour renders.  

The most amusing thing I've seen though is the image people are putting on their renders that says 'made with Reality'.   Come on people, it's Lux doing all the rendering, that's what you ought to be advertising!!

Yes, thank you!  This is what's got my dander up. (not that I have much dander left these days)
Both of those observations you've made are amusing, frustrating, enlightening and just downright maddeningly truthful.   BUT....I've let it go.  I'm calm, I've found my happy place and everything is beautiful and serene.   SERENITY NOW!

I've been a casual reader (and even more casual poster) of Rendo and Daz forums for years, and I never really got a hint of any bad vibes between the two sites.  I know both sites are really strict on the porn aspect of Poser and Daz Studio, and do not allow links to such sites. But they do present a professional respect and admiration toward each other.  At least that's how I perceive it.

And the occasional Poser vs. Daz Studio debate will pop up, but from what I remember, they were all usually very civil and the last comments usually made were "use whatever feels right to you, they are just tools for your creativity".  Which I totally agree with.

I think both sites have equally good and bad aspects about them.  If anything I sense the "community feel" slipping away from both sites to make way to a large "K-Mart" impersonal feel.
They'll always be the forums, and friends in the forums, but you get a growing sense that you are not part of a "people-first" community any longer.  Definitely not like in the old PFO days with Willow and Grey (for those of you old timers that remember)

Another couple of clarifications from me, since I am still being talked about (which is no big deal, but I thought I'd give a better insight into where I'm coming from)

I have been a Poser fanatic since the very first version.

But I have come to find that using Daz Studio is MUCH easier to use, to pose figures, to find content and it's user interface.  For awhile I didn't use Poser at all.

But I have yet to find anything that works well as far as exporting figures or scenes to another rendering program out of Daz Studio.  Many of the claims Daz made (as far as compatibility) were total jokes, if not outright lies.

My favorite and best renders come from the Poser to Vue combination.   I just love the results I get with those two programs especially using SkinVue.   Plus the rendering time in Vue is still much faster than anything LuxRender can do.

So depending what type of work I am doing (yes I do use Poser professionally and get paid for it) I switch back and forth between these two programs, Poser and Daz Studio.

When "Reality" first was announced, I followed the thread with much anticipation, but the more I read the more disappointed and suspicious I got - and this was a couple of months before it was even released.  I still have a hard time understanding all the excitement over it.

The bottom line for me is that the renders LuxRender produces does not justify the LONG rendering time (or the price of Reality) for me to use it.  I can set up the similar types of rendering in Vue (Global Illumination, Global Radiosity, Ambient Occlusion, Spectral Atmosphere, etc) and come out with the same look (or very close to it) as Reality in at least half the time.

It seems that I'm not the only one with a rant that need excising (or is it exorcising?).

What exactly is a site war?  Is this a new term?  I've heard it twice in as so many days now.
Maybe it's just a "site skirmish" or "site police action"?

Coming soon to a URL near you...."Site Wars: Victoria Strikes Back!"

Quote - Enough bickering already.

Who cares what who wants to use? I don't. I just want the best renders I can get as as easily as I can get them. I don't care which program does the job.

Laurie

Bravo!  Yes I agree, enough bickering.  It's one thing to vent and get it out of your system, but I will not have my irrational, childish, whiny rant turned into a free-for-all. :rolleyes:

Can't we all just get along?  Or at least pretend to?

Okay, here's a new rant.
Why is it that when a person already acknowledges the error of their ways, and says okay maybe you guys are right, you will still get half a dozen people still harping on you to CTFO or CTFD, when you have already said that you are over it already?

RTFP

(It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin)

I'll say it again:
I'm chilled, I'm calm, I'm over it.
'NUF SAID!

I need my coffee.

Quote - And when this thread gets deleted, where you gonna rant ?
:biggrin:

Can I send my rants to you? :lol:

Okay I get the message.  But don't y'all come crying to me when everything falls into place in about a month from now.  All you'll get from me is a big "I told you so!'

'Nuff Said!

I did. Sorry.

You know, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Poser to Vue is simple, works like a charm and you can get the same type of renders (plus many others) as you can from the Daz -> Reality -> Lux route.  Plus from what I'm reading, the renders are much faster too (on similar types of renders)

Yes, I know that not everyone owns Vue, but for those who do, my advice is to stick with that for beautiful, realistic renders, instead of trying to get past a steep learning curve, iffy results and really long render times.

Okay, I've said my piece/ rant.   I'm done too. :tongue1:

I think the distinction should be made here:  LuxRender is free.  "Reality" is not.  "Reality" is the bridge between Daz Studio and Lux Render and IMHO is kind of on the expensive side.  For me it crosses the line of buying it and not being able to afford it (or justify buying it).

What I said originally is that I already own Vue and with the right setup, I can get renders that match (or come very close to) the renders created using "Reality".  Plus Vue allows me other types of renders as well.  And with the addition of SkinVue, Poser figures take on that extra shine.

The renders I've seen of Poser figures using "Reality" all seem too flat.  It's like just taking the figure map, laying it out flat, and lighting it equally.   This is good for some renders, but as I said Vue gives me the option to create other types of renders as well.

I was just on the verge of buying "Reality", but then a tiny voice in my head (which sounded oddly like my wife's voice) said, don't do it, it's a lot of money and you got bills to pay.

But the thing that really stopped me from buying it was that I realized it was not really any better or produce different types of renders than the setup I use now:  I export Poser scenes into Vue 8 and I can pretty much get a whole variety of quality renders including the type that "Reality" does.
I know it's a different render engine, but the results are pretty similar.

I realize not everyone has Vue, so then Reality is a cheaper option for DS users.  But for me, it would just be redundant, repeating myself, duplicating the process.....etc.