First I want to say that this is just what the title claims....a rant.  But it takes a lot to make me go off on a good rant, and "they" have certainly pushed me to that point.

How is this related to Poser?  Well, I think many of the potential customers for Reality are in the same boat as I am, which is a Poser AND a Daz Studio user (along with other rendering software) trying to find the magic combination to make the most realistic renders they can.
And that I was (and still am) voicing my opinion about this latest product.  I do not have a personal vendetta or a professional agenda of any kind, except to share my concerns with my fellow consumers.

So....with all that being said, my rant is that Daz 3D deleted my post in their forum because it didn't speak highly of it's newest "hot" selling item: Reality

I don't think I unnecessarily slammed anyone or the product itself, I simply stated that I didn't think the product was as advertised and that there were much more productive and easier alternatives.
And just because ONE other person started an "argument" with me, my post was removed.

The email I received from them explaining why the post was removed stated:
*".....has been removed as the TOS explicitly prohibit posts that will provoke a site war, as this seems likely to do. It also makes an unwarranted accusation against Pret-a-3d, who has never claimed to be doing more than provide an exporter to LuxRender.

In general, if you find yourself using half of your post defending the post, and speculating on why it might be removed, then it is probably an indication that you need to rethink either the content or the manner of presentation.*"

1- I didn't start a "site war", only ONE other person was arguing with me and I was defending myself just from ONE other person....hardly a "site war".  In fact, by reading the other posts there, it seems a good portion of the site agreed with my observations.  .

2 - Pret-a-3d never claimed ANYTHING, or close to it.  But he definitely did not make it exactly clear on what his product was and how it worked in conjunction with D|S and LuxRender.  I found him to be very elusive from the start and that put up a red flag for me right away.
And the statement he made that "Reality" would be very competitively priced is simply not true.
Other similar exporters are in fact FREE!

3 - I can understand why Daz 3D doesn't want anyone to speak badly of this product, since I'm sure they expect to make a tidy little profit on it.  Which just reaffirms it's all about money with them and not customer satisfaction.

THIS RANT IS NOW THANKFULLY OVER!   WHEW!

(If I am in error about anything, or even if you think I am making a big deal about nothing, then I am very open to hearing about it.  I will not be offended if your views differ from mine)

I'm sorry, did we need another?

Laurie

I did. Sorry.

I took a look at both of your "rants".

Yes, you're really making a big deal out of nothing. I think I read the exact things you did and the plug in does pretty much I though it would and it was at the price I thought it would be as well. Maybe you were that person that everyone jumped on because the person didn't really understand what the product was all about and spouted a bunch of things that wasn't true about the product, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't really think it was really worth your time to run to a different site to rant about a product you don't really want to buy. And that's what it was... a unnecessary rant. And that's why it got deleted.

For example, I love all the House of the Dead games and I was stoked when there was a version of the game coming out last year, only to find out it was just for the Wii. I was upset and disappointed, but I didn't run on Nintendo's site to complain about the product. It wasn't worth my time. My solution was either to fork up the money for the Wii to get the product or just play with what I have.

Sounds like a similar solution could apply to you.

Either way, I think you'll be alright. ;)

And when this thread gets deleted, where you gonna rant ?
:biggrin:

Quote - And when this thread gets deleted, where you gonna rant ?
:biggrin:

Can I send my rants to you? :lol:

Okay I get the message.  But don't y'all come crying to me when everything falls into place in about a month from now.  All you'll get from me is a big "I told you so!'

'Nuff Said!

You can cheer yourself up by picturing what the "Reality" creator is going to feel like after a few months of dealing with support for it.

Quote - > Quote - And when this thread gets deleted, where you gonna rant ?

:biggrin:

Can I send my rants to you? :lol:

Okay I get the message.  But don't y'all come crying to me when everything falls into place in about a month from now.  All you'll get from me is a big "I told you so!'

'Nuff Said!

Somehow I'm thinking that's not going to happen. I would just let it go and focus on other things... that last post sounds more like you're hatin' on that product, and we don't want that do we?

Quote - You can cheer yourself up by picturing what the "Reality" creator is going to feel like after a few months of dealing with support for it.

At $50 to $80 a pop, at least he'll be well paid for it, LOL.

Quote - You can cheer yourself up by picturing what the "Reality" creator is going to feel like after a few months of dealing with support for it.

And coming up with the promised 64bit version and one that supports animation. 

"DAZ Cult Rant"

LOL, well considering Rendo has become the Anti-DAZ cult, I guess this is the appropriate place for such a rant.

SnowS

Anti Daz? Who?  There is no anti daz sentiments around here.  :laugh:

Quote - "DAZ Cult Rant"

LOL, well considering Rendo has become the Anti-DAZ cult, I guess this is the appropriate place for such a rant.

SnowS

congratulations. your part of the problem.

I think Poser 8 renders pretty good already.

Quote - First I want to say that this is just what the title claims....a rant.  But it takes a lot to make me go off on a good rant, and "they" have certainly pushed me to that point. blah..... blah.... blah

Why All the Emotionalism over the DAZ "reality"plugin?
The poser one  is coming along nicely... be patient
you, Like the DAZ Studio  users,  will soon see the "Reality"
of How BADLY Made most poser figures& Clothing actually Are, in the unforgiving light
of a physically correct render Engine

As for the Deleted post at DAZ what did you expect??
Calm Down

Cheers.

Okay, here's a new rant.
Why is it that when a person already acknowledges the error of their ways, and says okay maybe you guys are right, you will still get half a dozen people still harping on you to CTFO or CTFD, when you have already said that you are over it already?

RTFP

(It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin)

I'll say it again:
I'm chilled, I'm calm, I'm over it.
'NUF SAID!

I need my coffee.

Quote -
you, Like the DAZ Studio  users,  will soon see the "Reality"
of How BADLY Made most poser figures& Clothing actually Are, in the unforgiving light
of a physically correct render Engine

Quoted for truth. (Made me chuckle too)

Quote - Okay, here's a new rant.
Why is it that when a person already acknowledges the error of their ways, and says okay maybe you guys are right, you will still get half a dozen people still harping on you to CTFO or CTFD, when you have already said that you are over it already?

Well that's the beauty of internet forums... you open the door and people will disco through it. ;)

Kind of like negative reenforcement here though. 

"It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin"

Just curious but what "many alternatives" are there for DAZ STUDIO USERS to get complete DAZ Studio scenes into LUX with textures,
besides Exporting obj files blender and applying the textures by hand??.

Also how is the Merchant of the "reality" plugin responsible  for
customers "not knowing" about "alternatives" to HIS Commercial Product.

Cheers

Quote - "It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin"

Just curious but what "many alternatives" are there for DAZ STUDIO USERS to get complete DAZ Studio scenes into LUX with textures,
besides Exporting obj files blender and applying the textures by hand??.

Also how is the Merchant of the "reality" plugin responsible  for
customers "not knowing" about "alternatives" to HIS Commercial Product.

Cheers

I actually agree with you on something Wolf359...it's rare, but true in this case ;o).

Laurie

"congratulations. your part of the problem."

Ahh, so pointing out a problem makes you a part of it...reminds me of politics these days.

It's interesting that there wasn't widespread talk about using external renderers like Lux with Poser until DAZ Studio users got one and then it immediately became OMG WE NEED ONE TOO DAZ'S SUCKS THEY'RE EEEEVILLL. I'm all for innovation and I hope you can make a good alternative, but there's really a lot of unnecessary negativity towards DAZ around here for reasons I've yet to completely understand.

SnowS

Enough bickering already.

Who cares what who wants to use? I don't. I just want the best renders I can get as as easily as I can get them. I don't care which program does the job.

Laurie

Quote - Enough bickering already.

Who cares what who wants to use? I don't. I just want the best renders I can get as as easily as I can get them. I don't care which program does the job.

Laurie

Bravo!  Yes I agree, enough bickering.  It's one thing to vent and get it out of your system, but I will not have my irrational, childish, whiny rant turned into a free-for-all. :rolleyes:

Can't we all just get along?  Or at least pretend to?

Quote - "congratulations. your part of the problem."

Ahh, so pointing out a problem makes you a part of it...reminds me of politics these days.

It's interesting that there wasn't widespread talk about using external renderers like Lux with Poser until DAZ Studio users got one and then it immediately became OMG WE NEED ONE TOO DAZ'S SUCKS THEY'RE EEEEVILLL. I'm all for innovation and I hope you can make a good alternative, but there's really a lot of unnecessary negativity towards DAZ around here for reasons I've yet to completely understand.

SnowS

We've been able to render outside Poser for years, Bryce still renders Poser content quite nicely if you can get past the Daz Studio interface.

ps I don't hate Daz or Daz Studio, I just have trouble working with their software, not that the software isn't good I'm just hopeless with it.

Let's put price in perspective. At $79 Reality may seem expensive but AFAIK, it works with the free version of DS. If you want an easy way to get Lux rendering for Poser/Daz content, you can pay $79 for a plugin and use a free 3D figure app, or pay whatever Poser costs and get a free plugin - choice is great.

At any rate, it hardly rises to Bernie Madoff (with my money) levels of scam-ery or whatever your elected reps are probably up to at this very moment :-) As Wolf suggests, people will soon find that "reality" (small r) is still wanting, and with the fires of their post-orgasmic bliss ebbing, they will be on to the next big thing. Psst, I heard that DS will soon have direct neural input!
 

Quote - and then it immediately became OMG WE NEED ONE TOO DAZ'S SUCKS THEY'RE EEEEVILLL.

What are you smoking? Or are you just so biased that you read that into posts?

Quote - Okay, here's a new rant.
Why is it that when a person already acknowledges the error of their ways, and says okay maybe you guys are right, you will still get half a dozen people still harping on you to CTFO or CTFD, when you have already said that you are over it already?

RTFP

(It wasn't the plugin that bothered me, it was the way it was presented and about customers not knowing about the many alternatives to said plugin)

I'll say it again:
I'm chilled, I'm calm, I'm over it.
'NUF SAID!

I need my coffee.

Why do some people do it? 

They don't have enough to do?

They like to argue?

They're always right and anyone who opposes them is automatically wrong?

The whys are as varied as human nature.

As far as your post being pulled by the mods and rapping your knucles with a ruler, that happens.  You make a comment, someone gets hot under the collar.  They won't let it go even after you've tried to end it.  The mods step in and because you're the OP, you get a lecture.  If it really bothers you, stay off the DAZ forums. 

"We've been able to render outside Poser for years, Bryce still renders Poser content quite nicely if you can get past the Daz Studio interface."

Yes of course, I've seen many nice renders using Poser content in Vue, Bryce (Bryce actually has a Kai interface more than a DS one), and higher-end programs. I was referring to the recent desire to render in a separate rendering engine.

"What are you smoking? Or are you just so biased that you read that into posts?"

LOL, well let's see, Reality comes out and not only do people start with the "DAZ Cult" rants, but a community project immediately springs up to create a free alternative for Poser.

I don't come here for my health, nor am I representing or speaking for DAZ when I involve myself in threads like this. I personally just don't like seeing DAZ-bashing when there's no obvious justification, and that seems to happen a lot here.

Quote - "We've been able to render outside Poser for years, Bryce still renders Poser content quite nicely if you can get past the Daz Studio interface."

Yes of course, I've seen many nice renders using Poser content in Vue, Bryce (Bryce actually has a Kai interface more than a DS one), and higher-end programs. I was referring to the recent desire to render in a separate rendering engine.

"What are you smoking? Or are you just so biased that you read that into posts?"

LOL, well let's see, Reality comes out and not only do people start with the "DAZ Cult" rants, but a community project immediately springs up to create a free alternative for Poser.

I don't come here for my health, nor am I representing or speaking for DAZ when I involve myself in threads like this. I personally just don't like seeing DAZ-bashing when there's no obvious justification, and that seems to happen a lot here.

If you'd like the "real" poop on the whole LuxPose thing:

Pret-A-3D announces Reality. Some of us Poser users says "Oh, nice. Will it be available for Poser?" Nope, says Paolo. "Not possible with Python". Now, I don't know about you, but there's just some folks around here (coders mainly) that you just can't say "impossible" to without the obligatory "We'll just have to prove you wrong then". And so LuxPose was born. More of an exercise to prove that it can be done more than a "we've just gotta have it" mentality.

But that could just be the monkeys flying out of my ass again...

Laurie

Ugh.

The OP was a rant.  IT WAS HIS POINT OF VIEW. 

Can we keep this thread from turning into a site war?  PLEASE?

It seems that I'm not the only one with a rant that need excising (or is it exorcising?).

What exactly is a site war?  Is this a new term?  I've heard it twice in as so many days now.
Maybe it's just a "site skirmish" or "site police action"?

Coming soon to a URL near you...."Site Wars: Victoria Strikes Back!"

Oh, it's just the ages-old argument "mine is bigger than yours" thing, only in more modern terms ;o).

Laurie

Quote - Let's put price in perspective. At $79 Reality may seem expensive but AFAIK, it works with the free version of DS. If you want an easy way to get Lux rendering for Poser/Daz content, you can pay $79 for a plugin and use a free 3D figure app, or pay whatever Poser costs and get a free plugin - choice is great. 

Or use modo to render.  It's way way faster than Lux.  I don't have 20 hours to wait using Lux and the render is just meh.

Quote - > Quote - Let's put price in perspective. At $79 Reality may seem expensive but AFAIK, it works with the free version of DS. If you want an easy way to get Lux rendering for Poser/Daz content, you can pay $79 for a plugin and use a free 3D figure app, or pay whatever Poser costs and get a free plugin - choice is great. 

Or use modo to render.  It's way way faster than Lux.  I don't have 20 hours to wait using Lux and the render is just meh.

Not everyone can afford a $900 program, unless you are a student and get it at academic pricing. Also, importing poser stuff into modo is not as straight forward as what these plugins do.

"Someone is wrong on the internet "

LOL, I love it! 

Giving anyone with the price of a cup of coffee access to the biggest soapbox in human history was bound to be a mixed blessing at best. At least AOL died for their sins :-)

Quote - At least AOL died for their sins :-)

that was me dancing on the grave....

;o)

Laurie

I already explained why I started working on this project now instead of last September when somebody first asked about the possiblity of an exporter.

1) Last September I was working on Poser Pro 2010 and another job. It would have been really rude of me to make SM wait on PP2010 while I fooled around with another renderer.

2) Since I was working on PP2010 for quite a while, and seeing improvements in IDL, I wasn't altogether convinced that I needed another renderer. I had some expectation that IDL with GC was going to be a big step up.

3) Last month Laurie asked again in the Python forum if people wanted to take this on. I looked and noticed that Lux had changed to spectral rendering. This interested me a lot. This is something Poser cannot do. Chromatic caustics are really interesting. And I had not seen the SunSky business before that. As you know, my Environment Sphere has brought Poser's environmental lighting and reflections using 3rd party images to a new level. But the Lux SunSky is light-years beyond that.

4) Paolo joined our discussion (I still was not convinced I should work on this). When asked if he would consider doing an exporter for Poser, he said (I'm really simplifying this here) it couldn't be done to his satisfaction, with regard to speed and, because of shader node complexity, a quality conversion process would be very difficult to accomplish.

1. Further interaction with him clarified that he thought a Python exporter would be suckish slow, there was no way around that, and pretty much declared he wouldn't do it.

2. Kawecki also argued vociferously that Python was unsuitable for this.

So:

Kawecki says it's not possible.
Paolo says it's not possible.
Paolo says he's not interested.

BANG - I'm in.

If Paolo had instead simply said it is difficult, but he might consider doing it in the future, I would never have got involved.

My realistic water shaders for Poser came because too many people kept saying realistic water can't be done in poser.

My underwater shader came for the same reason.

My glass for the same reason.

My car paint for the same reason.

Pretty much all you gotta say is Poser sux and can't do something, and I'm compelled to prove you wrong.

That comic above is me.

I think you are simplifying all the reasons and he never said that poser sucks. Also all the pros and cons didn't fit under his business model so it wasn't financially feasible for him to do a Poser version. As a person that needs to pay bills, I respect anyone that can find a niche for a business opportunity, create a plan and implement it on his own. That's how a Democracy works. Many people in different areas do the same thing and we shouldn't him criticize him for something he may not think it is feasible for him. Doing that by yourself is a big undertaking to get right which I'm sure people involved in the LuxPose project are aware of. 

I have a copy of both Poser  7 and Daz Studio, but I spend most in Daz Studio because that fits my workflow. When I create something, I run it through both programs and I understand it's all about choice.. similar to when people argue about Macs and PC (Have several of each too). 

I'm going to sit down with Poser soon and go through the material room to get a better understanding of how it works and how to do things, and it's great to have two programs that can share the same content and it great to have as many tools in my belt to help me in my work. 

I'm following the LuxPose exporter with great interest as well, because it would be yet another tool for  me to use, but what troubles me is amount of arguing and insulting that goes on here and pissing matches that I hit upon each thread. All that will do is delay or halt development and we're all grown people and should treat each other as such. When you get down to it, we use the same content and we have the same love for this craft and we should act as such.

As for Paolo's tool, I'm having a blast with it and some of the renders I've done have pretty much blown me away... it's also shown me that not all content is created equal. ;)

I look forward to the same functionality with LuxPose and seeing what I can do with it.

Terry

Quote -

LOL, well let's see, Reality comes out and not only do people start with the "DAZ Cult" rants, but a community project immediately springs up to create a free alternative for Poser.

Um, some members of the community had talked about a plugin a while back.  Just recently, they got more organized and DID something.  I was asked to create a sticky.  
This is as "in-depth" of a "community project" as it gets.  If you recall, this is how the whole community, at large, did stuff back in the day.  Folks got together, and figured out how to make something work that didn't before.
As for the Anti-DAZ sentiments....the OP ranted.  The responses he got were mainly "uh, you're overreacting".  He came around, realized that, yeah, he was.  Posts of the same kind happen here, DAZ, RDNA, used to happen at PP...are we supposed to tell people that they can't have an opinion anymore?  Once it becomes defamatory, yes, we stop it . But, simply airing frustration is ok, and usually curtailed by other members.  And please don't tell me that it doesn't happen at DAZ.  It does.  A few years ago, I was a pretty regular forum member over there.  Now?  I feel like, unless I'm working a customer service angle for Rendo, I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment.  
What would be awesome is if everyone would kindly remove the chips from their shoulders and get back to being a community again.  

Quote - I think you are simplifying all the reasons

I should hope you think so. I'd be disappointed if my having said "(I'm really simplifying this here)" failed to make that clear. Did you even notice I said that?

Quote - and he never said that poser sucks.

When I read things like this I'm really confused by forum communication. Where did I say or even imply that Paolo said Poser sucks? I said that "you" (as in anybody) can get me to demonstrate a supposed impossibility with Poser simply by saying it's not possible, when I know it is.

Quote - Also all the pros and cons didn't fit under his business model so it wasn't financially feasible for him to do a Poser version.

Yes, well, that was something I explained in more detail the first time I responded to somebody making the observation that "a community project immediately springs up" in response to Reality. The project wasn't a response to Reality. The project was a response to Paolo saying there would not be a Reality exporter for Poser. That's quite a different thing.

As I said, if he had even given the slightest interest in pursuing it, I would have let him make his money with it. I have the luxury of making Poser tools and content for free, just because it's fun and being part of the community is fun.

Similarly, for a long time, when face_off's skin shaders were king, I did not publish any skin shader once I got close to the quality he was doing. It wasn't until he pretty much disappeared that I published a quality free skin shader. Had he stayed in the game, I would have let him make his money without needless competition.

Quote - As a person that needs to pay bills, I respect anyone that can find a niche for a business opportunity, create a plan and implement it on his own.

Yes and that's exactly the point I just made. If I think that my free stuff might compete with somebody's Poser content income, I don't publish it.

Quote - Many people in different areas do the same thing and we shouldn't him criticize him for something he may not think it is feasible for him.

Dude, where did I criticize him? I said he wasn't interested, so I moved, because I want to use LuxRender and I can't buy an exporter for Poser.

Weird.

"A few years ago, I was a pretty regular forum member over there.  Now?  I feel like, unless I'm working a customer service angle for Rendo, I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment.  "

That's exactly how I feel about Renderosity now; I used to spend every minute of my 3D-related time here and I was one of the leading free stuff and tutorial providers here for a long time. Now I feel like I have no business here because I believe in the quality of DAZ products and am judged as a representative of DAZ no matter what I say. I'll keep coming for the galleries and the occasional Marketplace item, but this is definitely not the same Rendo it used to be.

"I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment. "

We could argue endlessly about that, the only anti-Renderosity sentiment I've personally seen at DAZ is when fans of their products get tired of reading threads here started by the same gang of whiners about whatever new product DAZ has released. Sorry you feel that way.

"are we supposed to tell people that they can't have an opinion anymore?"

No, you're only supposed to tell that to people who disagree with you, like me.   ;)

SnowS

I don't know why you think this site is so Daz-unfriendly. Look thru the galleries and tell me how many Daz products you see in every render. I bet it's 95%+. We all shop there, we all have Vicky. It's in the nature of people to point out things they see wrong more than it is to fawn over things they see right. Can't change human nature ;o). Add in the fact that is is probably the largest Poser and Daz-related site there is and you have a lot more voices adding to those opinions.

Laurie

Another couple of clarifications from me, since I am still being talked about (which is no big deal, but I thought I'd give a better insight into where I'm coming from)

I have been a Poser fanatic since the very first version.

But I have come to find that using Daz Studio is MUCH easier to use, to pose figures, to find content and it's user interface.  For awhile I didn't use Poser at all.

But I have yet to find anything that works well as far as exporting figures or scenes to another rendering program out of Daz Studio.  Many of the claims Daz made (as far as compatibility) were total jokes, if not outright lies.

My favorite and best renders come from the Poser to Vue combination.   I just love the results I get with those two programs especially using SkinVue.   Plus the rendering time in Vue is still much faster than anything LuxRender can do.

So depending what type of work I am doing (yes I do use Poser professionally and get paid for it) I switch back and forth between these two programs, Poser and Daz Studio.

When "Reality" first was announced, I followed the thread with much anticipation, but the more I read the more disappointed and suspicious I got - and this was a couple of months before it was even released.  I still have a hard time understanding all the excitement over it.

The bottom line for me is that the renders LuxRender produces does not justify the LONG rendering time (or the price of Reality) for me to use it.  I can set up the similar types of rendering in Vue (Global Illumination, Global Radiosity, Ambient Occlusion, Spectral Atmosphere, etc) and come out with the same look (or very close to it) as Reality in at least half the time.

Quote -

Dude, where did I criticize him? I said he wasn't interested, so I moved, because I want to use LuxRender and I can't buy an exporter for Poser.

Weird.

Not weird. I really don't feel like going through the posts where you take digs (implied or otherwise) at him for not being interested in making the tool or where you have to prove him wrong. That's neither here or there and drinking this beer is a better use of my time.

Your motivation on providing something should be to fill a need, not to show someone wrong or to prove it can be done.

Wow - you're really argumentative.

I'll say it again, as it didn't seem to register with you.

I said he wasn't interested, so I moved, because I want to use LuxRender and I can't buy an exporter for Poser.

Quote - "A few years ago, I was a pretty regular forum member over there.  Now?  I feel like, unless I'm working a customer service angle for Rendo, I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment.  "

That's exactly how I feel about Renderosity now; I used to spend every minute of my 3D-related time here and I was one of the leading free stuff and tutorial providers here for a long time. Now I feel like I have no business here because I believe in the quality of DAZ products and am judged as a representative of DAZ no matter what I say. I'll keep coming for the galleries and the occasional Marketplace item, but this is definitely not the same Rendo it used to be.

"I'm not welcome, thanks to all of the anti-Renderosity sentiment. "

We could argue endlessly about that, the only anti-Renderosity sentiment I've personally seen at DAZ is when fans of their products get tired of reading threads here started by the same gang of whiners about whatever new product DAZ has released. Sorry you feel that way.

"are we supposed to tell people that they can't have an opinion anymore?"

No, you're only supposed to tell that to people who disagree with you, like me.   ;)

SnowS

The problem is, our perception of things becomes our reality.  What you or I have perceived back and forth betwixt the sites may not ACTUALLY be.  I know I've taken a few comments by members a little harsher than intended.
The thing is, what you may be seeing as anti-DAZ sentiment, the rest of us are seeing as a one-off situation.  Like I said earlier, the rant is usually self-containing, and self-corrected.  Someone rants, 5 other people post something along the lines of CTFO, OP sees the point of the prev. 5, and we're golden.  

Quote - Wow - you're really argumentative.

I'll say it again, as it didn't seem to register with you.

I said he wasn't interested, so I moved, because I want to use LuxRender and I can't buy an exporter for Poser.

Same here.

I've been a casual reader (and even more casual poster) of Rendo and Daz forums for years, and I never really got a hint of any bad vibes between the two sites.  I know both sites are really strict on the porn aspect of Poser and Daz Studio, and do not allow links to such sites. But they do present a professional respect and admiration toward each other.  At least that's how I perceive it.

And the occasional Poser vs. Daz Studio debate will pop up, but from what I remember, they were all usually very civil and the last comments usually made were "use whatever feels right to you, they are just tools for your creativity".  Which I totally agree with.

I think both sites have equally good and bad aspects about them.  If anything I sense the "community feel" slipping away from both sites to make way to a large "K-Mart" impersonal feel.
They'll always be the forums, and friends in the forums, but you get a growing sense that you are not part of a "people-first" community any longer.  Definitely not like in the old PFO days with Willow and Grey (for those of you old timers that remember)

I don't know about that Leee, I remember a LOT of bickering back then, posts getting deleted, accusations flying, egos getting bruised, etc. but then there were fewer of us and no other place to go :)

But I understand what you mean, there is not such a widespread hostility of one site towards the other as a few would have us believe.   And I'll let you all in on a little secret - the silent majority who don't appear very often in here could probably care less about these little "site-wars" and the sites know it :)

As for the Lux plugins I'm just watching as an interested bystander for now, will probably try it with Poser but I just did a render with IDL, baggins' env. sphere, vss, reflections, the works and an 800x800 render took just under 30 min with very good results so I'm not exactly waiting in line for 24-hour renders.  

The most amusing thing I've seen though is the image people are putting on their renders that says 'made with Reality'.   Come on people, it's Lux doing all the rendering, that's what you ought to be advertising!!

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..... I just did a render with IDL, baggins' env. sphere, vss, reflections, the works and an 800x800 render took just under 30 min with very good results so I'm not exactly waiting in line for 24-hour renders.  

The most amusing thing I've seen though is the image people are putting on their renders that says 'made with Reality'.   Come on people, it's Lux doing all the rendering, that's what you ought to be advertising!!

Yes, thank you!  This is what's got my dander up. (not that I have much dander left these days)
Both of those observations you've made are amusing, frustrating, enlightening and just downright maddeningly truthful.   BUT....I've let it go.  I'm calm, I've found my happy place and everything is beautiful and serene.   SERENITY NOW!