Very cool and realistic to the movie...

Wow, that's incredible Sacred Rose. You've really made the hatchling into one kick butt dragon...

The Poser community is a strong one with strong opinions and though I'm fairly new to it (got Poser about 2-3 months ago), from what I've read in these forums, it sounds like Curious Labs are ones that take great lengths to further the community. In fact, they wanted to honor that community's trust by spending millions to combat piracy, even despite abandoning anti-piracy methods at the community's behalf. So now, all of the sudden, they would turn on the very community that they need just because they want to screw everyone out of $70? Come on.

Don't you see? They are caught between a rock and a hard place. Now I am certainly not for piracy and I bought my copy for the full retail price of $219 (and just bought Pro Pack), but I got to think that someone at the company finally realized that it's not cost effective to prosecute Poser theft on a grand scale. Web sites that put up Poser aren't rich, nor do they make money, and so even though what they are doing is wrong, prosecuting them has no real benefit to the company. Sure, the guy goes to jail and CL is out the court costs. Taking down single users is hardly effective as it would cost more than $219 to do so.

The point here is that they had 3 choices as a company from what I can see from their reply:

1> They could keep doing business the way they are until their operating losses finish what's left of their assets and there is no more Poser or no more CL.

2> They can put it on sale to make the community happy about their previous purchases (which still wouldn't make most happy because they could have got it $90 cheaper now) and risk getting sued by every distributor until they were sucked dry in court.

3> Or they can try to raise money to use to further along their business and hopefully Poser 5. I'll admit the wording is unfortunate, but obviously necessary to avoid getting sued. In such a case, they can't just make one public comment that has the wording required and then under the table tell people "Oh it's really not that, it's this..." First time one of their distributors hears that, they are back to 2.

This is a legal game they are finding it necessary to play in order to survive. To me, they've made every effort they could to try to get people to read between the lines without saying it, even going as far as to offer a "coupon" serial number, but everyone is too quick to jump down their throats.

So the question is, do you want CL to survive or do you want to lose them and maybe their product over poor but forced wording? This PR nightmare will fade away, but better that than CL...

No, I don't work for CL, just an artist and a member of the Poser community like everyone else.

The clothes are usually what cause the problems in the import, more than the figures. What I usually do is pose them and then export the offending piece (the one that causes bad media) to a separate file. The Milkids jeans are one such item that is out of whack. This way mostly everything will stay except for the one bad piece. Saves some time.

Awesome modeling Travis...

I found out most of my issues. Thanks to all. The ambient shadow setting has to be turned up or there is no shadows hardly at all. Something I didn't understand from the above, until I separated the figure and a light source by itself and wondered why there was no shadow. I wrongfully thought if there was no ambient lighting via the sun (the sun turned off), that the ambient shadows should be turned off as well. As to the dog, it was a placement issue. He was twisted a little bit in his pose and light from the fireplace was getting in underneath him. So that is why he seems to have no shadow. He probably does, but it's off screen. I appreciate your suggestions and I need to spend more time with the lighting options I guess. :)

Ah, that may just be what I am experiencing. Ambient light being set to high on the textures. I didn't realize that these can drown out the shadowing. I will check into that and see if that is the problem. Thanks. Will post here when I find out...

Get Kina by Char...She's in the free section and I think she's one of the best (no offense to the others of course)...

I have to agree with Blackhearted and gang. It's a hell of thing to ask for help while dissing the very people that could help you. I, for one, applaud the tutorial writers. It's a difficult thing to write a tutorial that everyone can understand, more difficult than you think. When I was writing up my Pepper's Ghost one, I had to step back several times and wonder if it wasn't too advanced for those who would be using it. Still not sure if I did a good job on it or not, but I tried.

There is the language barrier as well, but the main thing I think is that the tutorials assume, and rightfully so, that you have read the manuals or at least read the section for which the tutorial applies. For instance, in the lighting, tutorials are generally targetted at where lights should go, and how to get the most out of the settings, not how to use the Poser light system which is in the manual. I have read through Syyd's tutorial and found it very informative myself.

So before you go complaining about these nice folks who have offered their time, effort (and even money for hosting), for nothing in return, think about whether you'd rather have a tutorial free world, because no tutorial is perfect, but they serve their purpose, to help all of us be better at what we do and they are the effort of some very nice and very giving people.

Stepping down off soapbox now...

To Cujo,
I recently experienced the "Why am I doing this?" crisis that every artist goes through. What's wrong with my art? Why do I bother? How did that image get to the top 20? I was completely frazzled wondering if I am just a no-talented hack that is posting up images that nobody really likes. The competitive nature that is unintentional, but inherent nonetheless brings this home even more. I don't know if it's the fall or what, but it seems many artists are feeling this sudden doubt. You aren't alone.

The good news is is that the crisis is part of the road to self-realization, a road leading to an oasis. Many things you discover in this time will make you a better artist later on and will help you shed that baggage. For me, it was the following...

1> Don't try to compare your work with those of the ring of pinup artists as you don't have a prayer of winning that game until you learn all their techniques. These artists have found a genre that they excel in and are comfortable in. Fortunately for them, it happens to be the kind of work that is popular as sexily clothed women will beat any medium everytime.

For me, I am too creative to get hooked into a particular genre and after trying two or three, I realized that I didn't want to be a pinup artist no matter how popular it was. It just wasn't what I enjoyed. No offense, but I find the whole medium to be nothing but moving mannequins in front of backdrops. While the post is spectacular, it still lacks (at least for me) the innovation and emotion that I demand in my own pictures for me to feel they are worthy of showing. That's not a dig at those artists, just my own personal observation of what I have realized.

2> Explore different styles until you find one that suits you. I am still on that quest, which is why my gallery is a hodge-podge of different things. Don't be afraid to try something that is not in the mainstream. Maybe it won't do as well, but it's very satisfying to create something that has never been seen or is seen in a new light.

3> Learn all you can about the work you want to do. Often I study the artistic qualities of those that I am interested in. Curious as to how this was done or that was done. Many artists will offer to extend info to you if you ask them or point you in the right direction. I've found many I truly admire to be friendly folk, willing to lend a hand. As thip said in another post to shadownet, there's great books on art that one can use to take up the slack as well.

3> In the Poser gallery, though in others as well, the top 20 and page views are little more than marketing and cliques. So much behind the scene hyping and friendship circles go on that these can only be warped, and have little to do with the quality of the work they represent. I've seen the most exquisite works that didn't even come close to the top 20 or to the views you'd expect. My advice, get over it. If people say they like your work, then that's all ya need. How many people saw it isn't as important as what they thought of it. Try to fight the urge to compete, as art is expression, not competition. Look at the recent "fake thumbnails" experiments. 200-300 views, no picture or a bogus one.

4> Critique is not equal to hating your work. This one took me a bit to come to grips with. A comment can sometimes hurt one's ego, but I realized that everyone sees a work differently and as the artist, you don't always see what is right in front of your face, so it's good that people point it out to you. Most times, when they care enough to comment, it is because they find the work to be promising, but just off in some way. It also does not mean that all suggestions are valid for your picture. They should be weighed with what you, as the artist, are trying to portray and whether you feel the comment is of use. I feel as though I ruined one of my pictures in trying to live up to every suggestion, and so I'm more careful as to what I do with the suggestions I get.

The bottom line here Cujo31, is to stay true to yourself and to your work. Enjoy the quest, the learning, the fun, and the community of artists here and relax. You'll find a much less stressful existence once the realizations set in. Hope this helps...

Poser is all about props and textures made in other programs, so excluding such from the Poser gallery would completely empty that gallery if such were the rule. It would also make the Combined Applications one way too big for the groups.

I agree with soulhuntre in that I usually post in whatever I feel was dominant for that picture. I post in Poser mostly because really my work is mostly about the human side of art and so Poser is where all the emotion of people come from and so I use that. If it's scenic or the human is only a small part of the overall picture, then it goes in Bryce.

Oh, one more thing...As to the free stuff, keep in mind that most people download and don't look at the stuff until they need it. This is mostly because people are afraid it won't be there later on, since server hosts go down like flies. So don't get too discouraged if you don't see it pop up in pictures. Perhaps people just haven't found the right image that uses it. I see lots of free stuff that is great quality but not used yet. I also see lots of marketplace items that are the same way...

Actually thip, thanks for the info. Can use some of it myself, especially the book recommendations. Been looking for good books on art to learn the finer points of lighting, presentation, etc. Didn't know old Boris had one out either.

To Shadownet, I apologize if I sounded like you only wanted page views and it may seem from my dissertation that that is what bothered me as well, and it did, but not for the sole sake of a number. Page views indicate that people have seen our work. We then hope that a portion of those people will comment that it moved them (an integral part of art), or there is a critique on technique, lighting, etc, that helps us in our quest to improve. I didn't comment on the art itself as I am just learning myself and don't yet feel confident in making such criticisms to others. So while page views are certainly not anyone's ultimate goal, they are a part of the experience and getting people to look at your work (which is required to critique it) is part of the battle in this really fast moving gallery. I just wanted to share my seemingly long road of discovery with others who may not understand why page views are what they are.

Also I am no stranger to the views and comment ride. My own gallery may seem like a roller coaster as I tend to vary in style a lot, because I get bored with one particular genre. I love to experiment with new techniques or new styles and that's good and bad, but it's the way I like to work. The point is, don't be afraid to experiment even if it means a picture with less comments or views or that may go against the mainstream like soulhuntre's example.

Good luck shadownet and thanks for sharing your work...

Shadownet,
I have felt your pain, but there is some things you should know about page views. As someone said, you aren't getting paid by page views and a huge amount of page views is not any indication of the quality of your work. For awhile I agonized over the page views and while I still don't agree with their purpose, I realized it's not the page views that count in the general scheme of things anyway when it comes to artwork. Listen to what people tell you about your work. Focus on the positive. It will make you feel better. If you must guage your work based on views, try to at least guage based on similar work than trying to compare to the pinups, a game you will always lose.

Since page views are an unfortunate part of the wonder of Renderosity, here is what I have found out over my time here that has helped me come to grips with the whole thing...

The first and foremost is that page views are a product of 90% marketing. Even artists we consider quite gifted (especially within the poser pinup circle) have quite a stark contrast between their pinups and non-pinups. Views are not judged so much on originality or any artistic qualification, as much as how sexy is the image percieved to be. This is not to say that there is not true quality in many images, just that people are more inclined to pick a sexy picture than one that isn't. Certain artists gain their reputation from not only their quality, but their ability to create in this popular genre. Those artists who choose not to do this kind of art are at a disadvantage from the start in relation to page views.

Not only are the poser pinups popular from a sexy point of view, but many of those same artists as well as others are beta testers and thus privy to the latest stuff, that you and I can't even get. This also goes a long way into their page views, because people like to see what's new on the horizon for them to play with. It's like looking at 2002 cars versus 1998 cars. The 1998 car might be just as good a quality, but they're not nifty new toys.

Also, what I wasn't aware of and you may not be either, is that the posting of the picture is only part of the fun. Many post URL's to a variety of different venues such as chat, forums (like you did here), mailing lists, friends, ICQ lists, etc, etc, etc. That is still another reason why page views often seem warped. While certainly not all artists use this route, it does explain why a picture gets 250 in 6 hours, versus 25 in that same 6 hours. For awhile, I wondered if 225 were just skipping the other works including mine, but then I realized that people were probably being directed to that work from an outside source than just people scanning the galleries in general. Of course, many will look at some and not others, but to that degree was a little hard to swallow...

Time of posting, though a much lower factor than the others, can also effect page views. Posting in the middle of the night when viewers are not really surfing, but people are still posting, can mean that your picture is on page 5 or 6 by the time people do look through the galleries in the afternoon or evening. Also holidays. Remderosity events, or other real world things can also adversely effect the number of views. For instance, Halloween had the contest which I imagine many viewed in lieu of the gallery that day as even the most popular seemed to not do as well. Keep in mind the average span of views is about a day and a half. Any after that usually trickle in as a result of you showing your gallery, others showing your gallery, or people looking after noticng your latest work. There are those that get lots of views beyond that from marketing or being in the top 20, but generally a day and a half is the window of opportunity...

How big the image is is also a consideration for people with slow connections. People are more likely to look at one that will come up in 30-45 seconds then 3-4 minutes...

The most powerful advertising that you have though is the thumbnail. Finding the right thumbnail is crucial if you are concerned about page views. I've often wondered if I've gotten the right one, or would more people have seen it if I picked this or that. Here are some suggestions I hope you will find useful in relation to thumbnails...

1> If there is a woman in the scene, always use her as part of your thumbnail. She will attract much more views than a dragon or an inanimate object would.

2> If there is no woman in the picture, then why not? No, just kidding. Try to pick the most alluring part of the picture and one that will give the most tease. In your picture, the dragon eye (beyond the woman) was a great choice.

3> It's not a good idea though to zoom in on a section of the picture as it makes the thumbnail seem grainy and people will assume, usually wrongly, that the picture is equally as grainy. It is okay to pick a larger portion and shrink it so it fits.

4> It's also not a good idea to put the whole picture as the thumbnail as people will assume they've then seen the whole picture and there is no need to click on it, forgetting of course that they get all the wonderous detail that the full version has.

5> Always post a thumbnail of some kind (which I know you do, but a note to others).

I've been a big fan of your work shadownet and I look forward to each picture and I hope you won't get too depressed over logistics. This info helped me and I hope it will help you.

It took a while, but the thing I learned the most from all of this was to revel in the art itself and all will be good.

Fair enuff Russell...Thanks...The reason I thought the last was from the record log you showed during the Hot 20 discussions... :)