OK, here is the cube example....

It doesn't matter the the texturemap is plugged into the ambient. Ambient_Value is set to 0 so it isn't doing anything. Could it do that your dress uv's are all 0? That would explain the texture not rendering. How does the dress look in uv mapper? Also, maybe the normals are pointing inwards, so the texturemap is on the inside.

Damn - renderosity aet my original post :-( So this is the shortened version - apologies if it reads abrupt.

Cath, a couple of points on your tutorial...

1. The phong node should be plugged into the Alt_Specular, not the Specular_Color

2. The tutorial doesn't work if shadows are switched on

3. If you use a single light, make it a spot light, and point it AWAY from the object, it still renders as if the spotlight was pointing at the object.

4. When you deleted all the lights, of course it rendered black, since the diffuse node was plugged in. I dissagree with the tutorial text saying that it proved it wasn't the same as ambient. If you plug the diffuse node into ambient, it will also render black.

5. I agree that under certain circumstances translucence doesn't act identical to ambient. If you run your tutorial, but use ambient instead of translucence, the opposite side of the object is lit. So in theory, translucence could be used as a form of backlit sss (won't work as front-facing sss - which it the most important part of skin realism) - although only if you don't render with shadows on.

6. If you are not using the diffuse node plugged into translucence, then translucence is the same as ambient. So for your Bart image above, plugging that map into the ambient node instead of the translucence node will give you the same results....without the problems listed in 2) and 3).

And still looking forward to seeing what your thoughts on the cube are.....

Message edited on: 02/06/2005 02:18

John...are you trying to do this for P4 or P5? If P5, then I'm not aware of any way to directly copy one material to another, since the PoserPython library doesn't support the P5 Material Room. One way you could do it in P5 is to have the script save the scene and then extract the materials from the save file and construct a new mat pose which the script then applies to the figure. A tough script to write!

Mec4d - all the sss stuff I've been working on is in a tutorial at http://www.users.on.net/~pkinnane/RealSkinShaderTutorial.html. It's getting a little long in the tooth now (it's 2 months old), and doesn't include all the tricks of plugging maps into the nodes, but the basics are there.

Mec4D - yep - watched the animation....many times. I'm not sure it really demonstrating what I wanted to see. An animation of a single light rotating around Bart would tho.

Mec4d, I did a couple of quickie tests. Firstly plugging the diffuse into the translucence gives an effect that you don't get with plugging diffuse into ambient. So in that case translucence does not equal ambient. But I think that effect doesn't explain you "glowing" nose, etc on Bart. I wonder if you are getting those effects for a different reason. Because he is front-lit, and you are not using the diffuse node - those glows are the effects of translucence acting as ambient. You you are adding ambient light onto his head according to a map. Which looks fantatic! But I think it's important to understand /why/ you are getting the effect. On to the attached render. I've just got 1 backlight in the scene (I should have reduced the specular - sorry). It /looks/ like translucence right? But it's not. It's ambient controlled by a map, but also controlled by the main light position - to give a better fake sss effect. Move the light, and (after running the script), the sss red glow moves across her body. So I'm interested in your Bart renders - if you move the lights - does the glow change. If it does - then this is a major breakthru... Very interested to see how you go with the cube...

Looks awesome. If you move the backlight - does his ear still glow?

Mec4d.... "Ambient glow always in dark or not, translucence glow now in the dark if the scene don't include any light behind the object and as you saw already i proved it :)" I'm not sure I fully understand.....Can you pls try this... 1) open a new scene in Poser 2) load a box prop 3) set cube material to translucence = white, power 1 4) then delete ALL lights 5) render The cube will render white! I think this conflicts with what you are saying (which is that if there is no backlight, translucence will render black). Then....change the translucence to 0, and ambient to white, 1.....then rerender - you will get the same render. So translucence = ambient in these circumstances. Again....I hope I am wrong. I so want to believe you, because this opens up so many possibilities...

Mec4d - this is awesome work! I've done a couple of quick experiments.... 1) Your first wiring diagram (image map into translucence) doesn't seem to work for me. With this diagram, transulence seems to equal ambient. 2) Your second wiring diagram - where you use the diffuse node into translunce does work...although it only works when the "cast shadows" render option is on. So I guess...back to my original question - with your original wiring diagram, and the sample image with the glowing ear, if you move the backlight, does the ear still glow (it does for me - indicating that translucence = ambient). Also - on your image directly above (Bart)...it would be good to understand where the light is coming from....his ear is glowing, so that indicates the light is behind his head....but his nose is glowing too - did that come from the same light? How did the light get there? Lots of questions. Anyway - fantastic work on determining the Diffuse node plugs into the translucence. Thanks a heap for this info. Great work.

Mec4d - These candles look awesome! Again (as per the other msg thread), I suspect you will get the effect regardless of the light positions...so it's kind of "fake translucency". Tunesy....definitely adding a small amount of translucent (or ambient) red to skin tones will improve human skin a heap. You just need to tune the amount of red depending on the amount of light in the scene. You you add lots of translunce, back the diffuse off a point or two. Mec4d - yes, the sss map is the key. The HyperReal kit uses both a V3 head and body sss maps to control where the ambient (translucent) and diffuse incidence effect gets applied. Makes a big difference. As for getting REAL sss....that is the quest. I think there are two possibilities.....1) Some tricks with specular. So far, experiments has been a total failure, but haven't given up yet, or 2) A phython script which analyses the lights in the scene and creates a lightball map (like a sphere) jpg (using the sss algorythms), which could then be plugged in to the ambient node.

Well this is very very interesting. I spent a long time experimenting with the translucence plug to get this effect, and I so hope my findings were wrong, and that yours are right. Basically, I found that the translucence plug is identical to the ambient plug. So the wiring diagram you have given also gives me the same effect on the ears - however when you remove the backlight, you still get the effect. Maybe you could post a render with the backlight, and without - to show the removal of the glow with the change in lighting (when the rest of the head black). Also, instead of plugging the map into the translucence, plug it into the ambient, and see if you get the same effect (I did). Again, I hope I am wrong on this! Also, Mec4D - Toon Shader for simulating sss. I also tried this according the Stahlberg's method, but found it was a) very sensitive to different light conditions (needed to be tweeked for high and low lit scenes), and b) it gave an sss effect which ignored the direction of the main light. So I now use a techniqe that works under all light conditions, and takes into account the direction of the main light. I gave the wiring node setup (for Maya) to Stahlberg (on a cgtalk forum) - although at the time he seems to have dispensed with the toon shader in favour of a real sss shader.

I agree, the softness at 0.5 one is a completely different color! Fresnel is implemented in the tutorial as a subtraction of color from the texturemap. The bottom right sphere has had a heap of color removed, and is darker than the rest - it has overpowered the texture. The sphere on the left has a much finer level of spots that have been removed - and won't impact the texturemap so much. The 3 spotted spheres also look like they still have some specular in them.

Excellent comparison! From the look of those highlights - I wonder if the main light is too bright - and over-exposing the image (I generally have the main light at about 80% if there are 1 or 2 other lights in the scene). Should also use pure white light (is there a yellow tint to the light?). I wonder if the specular fidderence won't be so much with adjusted lighting? Great stuff.

Well from my unadequate experiences with dynamic hair... 1) It looks best when it's black, and you use depth map shadows. That way you can use fewer strands, and still not see his scalp. 2) You can grow the hair as one group, and then shorten the hair to his sides (using the adjust hair styling dial). 3) Once you start styling, you can't do anything which causes the hair to regrow (since that will reset the style). 4) For a look as per your 1st or 2nd image, set the length, pull it backwards and then down so it's roughly in shape in growing mode. Then style it - start at the roots and work out to the tips. If the hair renders "jaggedy", try increasing vertices (from 20 to maybe 50). 5) I've only once been able to get a reasonable result using the "calculate" method. In general, it ends up not being smooth enough. 6) Expect to spend a lot of time on it and get frustrated. In the end it will be difficult to get it looking as realistic as a standard hair prop. The biggest problem will be getting his "peak" right (ie. the hair to forehead shape).