sigh...as usual the thread degenerates into bickering, name calling, childish rants, and attacks.

As for VS and Anton...You couldn't just let it go could you VS! Anton stopped after I spoke to him...when are you gonna learn that sometimes it's better to just leave well enough alone and retain your credibility (which, by the way, you just blew!). You 2 seem to be on the verge of TOS violations for personal attacks...Spike has already made his "cautions" post! Carry on at your own risk!

The way this appears is a no-brainer. Lady Luna, for whatever reason, has been posting copyrighted material in Freestuff. She should be banned...no debate...no excuses...end of story!

Anton, I know you have been hit hard by warez of your products, but not everyone is "out to ruin you". An email to the Admins of Freestuff and an email to the "poster" to cease and desist should have been your first step in this new case with your "Magic" hair. Sometimes you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.

The same with the Vicky .obj files in Freestuff, an email to the Admins would have dealt with the situation. They are normally responsive and deal with removing the "offending" material relatively quickly. It's a good bet the "offender" didn't even realize he was commiting an "offense". It appears there is a language barrier, and last I heard DAZ EULA's weren't distributed in multiple languages (although they should consider that).

Maybe you should be less concerned with how much income you're losing and more concerned with how many people you may be alienating with the way you handle these situations.

PhoeinxRising: "Illusions, there is a history between VS and myself you are not aware of. Both here and at other forums. And it ain't pretty."

Me: Keep that between you and VS and not in the forum...he made a civil comment, and you should show some decorum and keep your replies to him civil.

PhoenixRising: *"VirtualSite,

Go troll someone elses post."*

Me: Tacky Anton...tacky and uncalled for...I don't see anything in VirtualSite's post that remotely resembled trolling! You (for whatever reason) may not like the guy, but you have no right to restrict who can comment in any post. You may have started the post...but by posting it in a public forum, you opened it to comment from any and all! If you don't like the kinds of comments you get, perhaps you should rethink posting to public forums!

EricofSD: "Illusion is correct. That obscure document is just that, obscure."

Me: Hey...I was just making a joke! 8^o

See...MM said: "Even if you advertise your participation in illegal activities publicly, you still have rights that the legal authorities are obligated to respect. Then I said "Yes you do..."You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to be speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense."
:^)

Damn! I knew I should have put a snicker in there!

martian_manhunter: Even if you advertise your participation in illegal activities publicly, you still have rights that the legal authorities are obligated to respect.

Yes you do..."You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to be speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense."
:^)

Good idea...might be worth a mention in the Community Improvement Ideas Forum.

Pretty enought to frame and hang on a wall. Not convenient though, if I gotta download it (or even get it burned on cd) and find someplace to have it printed, matted, framed, etc...not to mention the added cost. Now if it was already printed (on acid free paper), matted, framed, etc...I might consider it even at a higher price. Nice idea...don't think it will work here...course someone might come along and buy it...who knows...

hmatienzo: "The real point is not really whether Legume deserved to win. Art is in the eye of the beholder, to paraphrase, but whether Rosity had the right to pull the right to VOTE away from us mid-stream!"

Me: Yes, they did have the right, if they got wind of the alt.slack post about "flooding the vote". Yes, they did have the right, since they decided to make it an Admin/Mod vote after last years contest...the only problem is They didn't bother to communicate their reasons to us, nor did They bother to post the changes to the decision making process in a predominant place.

They have a right to do whatever They want, They also have an obligation to communicate their policies and decisions to the membership.

Mosca: "So, two ducks walk into a men's room..." Me: Look again, I have it on good authority they were grebes, not ducks at all... :^P

Badco: The AOM voting process was changed after Legume and Mr Codini won in a row. (snip) It was believed that 2 sub-genius's winning, in a row, was setting a trend that Renderosity admins would rather have avoided. This was never confirmed, of course, but it did quack like a duck !

Me: "Never confirmed"...perhaps it was whispered in the men's room...a most reliable source of facts.

Mosca: "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, my theory would tend to be that it may, in fact, be a duck."

Me: Hmmmm...unless of course, it's a grebe, a duck-like bird with short legs designed for diving...which is often mistaken for a duck.

OOOOOOOPS...heheheh...caught that Ironbear, deleted and re-posted with closed tags! Uh...IB...you might want to back away from the fire a bit...I think your toes are smoking! :^P

Mosca: "Now, apparently, you want me to never, ever say the word "Legume"

Me: No, I want you to separate the issues...I just want you to be honest and stick to your real gripe which seems to be the PTB's are against Legume.

Mosca: "what I've said over and over is this: the way the poll was pulled...gave the appearance, to me, that management had invoked the Legume Rule once again...and withdrew the voting specifically because he...was making a run at first place"

Me: AH...at last we get to the heart of the matter, gee it would have been nice if you said that in the first place and stuck to it.

Mosca: "There's also an injustice done to ToxicAngel, and the other finalists."
Me: Nice of you to mention that but that evidently takes a back seat to your primary gripe.

Mosca: "Management says it was all a big mistake; I'm not convinced by that explanation."

Me: Tammymc said it was a mistake made by her, why would she lie? (Hmmm...reminiscent of the 60's...don't trust the etablishment).

Mosca" "Once again, FOMs (friends of management) are determined to make me the issue, and divert attention away from the message"

Me: Well, if you are referring to me I don't know any of the management let alone consider any of them friends. The only management that I knew and that I would consider a friend, is Ironbear...and he is no longer management here. As far as you being the issue...that's not the case. I have an issue with the way you go off "half-cocked", with the way you twist the facts to suit your needs, and with your "saber rattling". Nothing more, nothing less. As far as "diverting attentions away from the message" you kept changing the message...no need to blame anyone but yourself for that.

Mosca: "...attacking me just serves to keep these threads alive, and gives me an opportunity to ask, yet again, the questions I have regarding this year's AOY process."

Me: I don't know about anyone else...but I'm not attacking you Mosca...I'm debating the validity of your questions and your statements.

CyberStretch: "Seems like illusions has it out for you, Mosca. ;0)"

Me: No, I'm entitled to state my opinion, point of view, and debate...just like Mosca, you, or anyone else. Mosca started the "campaign" and has been the most "vocal" about it...I disagree with his position, the validity of his statements, and the way he goes about doing it. It's as simple as that.

dialyn: "I honestly think the whole AOY thing was messed up. And, yes, I think it should be revised (or just eliminated as an idea). snip "...What I don't buy into is this whole conspiracy thing. There is no logic to that. I can't deal with X-Files explanations."

Me: I have to agree with you dialyn. The idea of AOY not being determined by the membership is not the best idea. Although Time Magazine makes it's own determination of who will be "Person of the Year" so it's not that appalling of a concept. As far as conspiracy theories go...I agree with you 100%

Mosca: "My opinion on this matter is not based on conjecture and belief--it's based on my years of experience here, practically since day one, observing management's behavior: what they've done versus what they've said."

Me: Bottom line, your "years of experience here" = conjecture and belief and theories, which are the only conclusions that can be drawn through observation of anyone or anythings behavior.

Mosca: "It would be a wonderful world indeed if we were all 100% morally perfect in every regard, yes. Which leads me to wonder what your motivation is here--just baiting me, I suppose, which is fine."

Me: My motivation is to state my opinion...I disagree with your tactics, statements, and issues...why shouldn't I be able to do that without being called a shill, an FOM, or any other name?

Mosca: "Apparently you're happy with management's actions re AOY, but you shouldn't be--if I'm right about what happened, then they could just as easily do the same thing to you."

Me: Well, I don't think the way AOY is being done is the best way, but then again, the fact that members can't be trusted not to clone isn't very settling either. Please don't tell me what I should or should not be happy with...until you can provide more than opinions based on your observations...I don't feel you're very competent to determine what should or should not make me happy. If you're right about what happened...and thats a A VERY BIG IF I'd be very surprised! Somehow I can't see Legume being the motivation behind all this compared to the difficulty in having a legitimate vote without cloning and other such nonsense.

Mosca: "Sometimes I just crack me up, y'know?"

Me: Yep...sometimes you crack some of us up too! :^P

Mosca said: "Well, maybe there's an issue with reading comprehension." Nope not a bit, Legume's name came up 5 times in the "examples" you gave. My reading comprehension is just fine, my "reading between the lines" comprehension is even better.

Mosca said: "I've heard of mass amnesia before, but this is the first time I've ever seen it in practice." Nope, just selective memory at it's best! Convenient ain't it. :^P

Mosca said: "Anyway, I've never claimed that Legume wasn't part of the issue here--" 99 44/100 % it would seem...

"...management finds Legume abrasive and difficult, and, well, scary; therefore management doubts the wisdom of having Legume represent the site as AOY..." Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, although it's all based on your conjecture and your belief. .

"...therefore management pulls the vote after three days of encouraging customer-members to participate. That looks like discrimination to me--different rules for different people." Well just like you're entitled to your opinion I suppose you're entitled to interpret the facts to suit your beliefs. Tammymc admitted it was a "miscommunication", no big conspiracy...just a simple "foo-bar", you put your own spin on it.

"That's unfair. Would I be equally upset if it had happened to someone else? Honestly, I think I would, yes." It's good to know you think you would, but it would be nice to know you were 100% certain you would...it seems doubtful though.

Mosca said: "Where's the inconsistency? It would've been just as unfair if they'd pulled it to keep ANY of the contestants from winning. You haven't really been paying attention here, apparently."

I have been paying very close attention to all the threads. You repeatedly don't seem to mention ANY contestants EXCEPT Legume, making it obvious you don't really care about the contest, all you care about is Legume winning.

I do remember the PTB posting that the AOY would be chosen by the Admins/Mods quite sometime ago...unfortunately I can't seem to find the post, it may have been in C&D which is long gone. Tammymc's "oops" doesn't really bother me because nothing was taken away since the members weren't supposed to vote for AOY anyway. I'm probably the only one that remembers that.

I will agree with this...the method for determining AOM & AOY should have been posted in the contests section so it was clear to everyone how AOY would be selected right from the start so there could be no questions.

**There is no conspiracy here...only poor judgement and lack of foresight.</>

**